:O :/ :(

MynaFrett

Hi guys. Just a little hand from the mini Avenger rebuy. This tournament is the biggest one I play on Sky and I'm sure that is the case for a lot of you as well.

So, final 10 situation with two five-handed tables.
We find ourselves with around 22bb and looking down at pocket sixes in the cut-off.
The player in the big blind is forced all-in pre flop and the player in the small blind has around 7bb.
The player on the button has around 30bb.
The Hijack folds in front of us and we have a somewhat interesting decision between open shoving or min raising. If we shove our decisions are made and we won't end up making potentially bad folds if the player on the button shoves and the player in the small blind gets it in too (can raising with the intention of folding to button shoves and small blind shoves be ok here?)
Clearly our intention is to get it in both when the button folds and the small blind shoves and when the button flats and small blind shoves we will be re-shoving to hopefully get a fold from button and isolate the small blind and the big blind for a potential double bounty opportunity and instantly ladder two spots to boot... sweet spot.
Doesn't quite work out that way though and we end up taking a 3 way flop.
We flop a set on a monotone board and I decide to go with a large (and polarized) continuation bet here with the obvious intention of snapping off a shove and praying that we get there versus unlikely flopped flushes or hold versus everything else... (assuming he doesn't also somehow have pocket Queens or tens of course)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
bert21	Small blind		5000.00	5000.00	63700.00
Monty15	Big blind		1425.00	6425.00	0.00
	Your hole cards	6 6
flushmenow	Fold
MynaFrett	Raise		20000.00	26425.00	193137.27
can60	Call		20000.00	46425.00	285046.03
bert21	Call		15000.00	61425.00	48700.00
Flop
		10 Q 6
bert21	Check
MynaFrett	Bet		49000.00	110425.00	144137.27
can60	All-in		285046.03	395471.03	0.00
bert21	Fold
MynaFrett	All-in		144137.27	539608.30	0.00
can60	Unmatched bet		91908.76	447699.54	91908.76
Monty15	Show	2 9
MynaFrett	Show	6 6
can60	Show	Q 7
Turn
		7
River
		Q
can60	Win	Full House, Queens and 7s	447699.54		539608.30

Not being results oriented but is it simply better to shove our 22bb stack here in this specific spot and take our medicine when we get coolered by the button, or is raising with the intention of folding to the 3 way all-in preferable? Accepting that sometimes we will also be folding the winner but most likely laddering a spot or two and maintaining a 20bb stack...

MattBates

I think I prefer open shove here given the bounty element. I don't expect can60 to fold much given Monty is all in and I can see players isolating pretty wide vs a min open and means we are in lots of flip situations and when we see the flop its hard to know where we are.

Essexphil

Raise-fold is a horrible option.
IMO, it is shove or raise-call....

MynaFrett

Yes, I think I agree with you @MattBates , 66 is going to be tricky to play OOP if we expect button to just flat a lot of the time. I don't mind @can60 isolating (with either a weird click back or a more conventional all-in) and getting it in against him here.
Just to clarify @Essexphil I'm obviously never raise-folding 66 to a button jam and small blind fold here given how wide ranges play in this specific spot and the fact that we have/will be perceived to have an absolute tonne of raise-folds (goes without saying) I was only asking (somewhat tentatively) if we can consider raise-folding 66 here specifically when button isolates AND small blind shoves(?) given how much worse 66 plays in a 3 way all-in (4 ways if you include the player in the big blind) as opposed to HU (or 3 ways if you include the player in the big blind).
Thanks for getting involved and sharing your opinions guys.

Allan23

I think open shoving is by quite a clear distance the best option. When we do decide to raise I think it becomes close between raise calling and raise folding - would depend on stack sizes and icm.

As played, nice run out

MynaFrett

Thanks @Allan23 Assume that aside from the player who is all in in the big blind and the player in the small blind with 7bb, everybody else has around 25bb average. Given that button has 30bb is the logical conclusion then that we just open shove every stack size we ever have in this specific spot then? Or should we be still be working in some raise-folds and raise-calls when we have closer to 30bb ourselves or if his is the effective stack how would/should this alter our strategy here?

MattBates

Also, the bigger the Monty bounty makes shoving even more favourable.

MynaFrett

Yep, agree again @MattBates The bounty of @Monty15 was on the smaller side of average for this stage in the tournament as it happens...

Allan23

Don’t think I’m open shoving with all stack sizes, just 20 bigs is such an easy stack size for button to rip if you do just open - hes gonna get a lot of folds, or have decent equity with pretty much any 2 against 66 - he’s a bit more hamstrung if you have 30 bigs plus. That being said don’t mind having a raise folding and raise calling range here too? Eg more garbagey suited gappers that can fold to button shoves then premiums like aa kk qq JJ that can happily call shoves and crush their range

stokefc

i know its hindsight looking at the cards now do you think can60 would have called your shove with q7 ?
its a shove from me hoping can60 has trash which most of the time will have imo

MynaFrett

Yep I hear ya @Allan23 It was just me attempting to be cute off of this very specific stack size. Being able to min raise and potentially fold if both the button and small blind decided to shove leaving me 20bb to continue 9 or even 8 handed in the biggest tournament I play if button scoops. It's a slightly strange one because I know for a fact that I'm just shoving any stack that's a bit shallower in this spot but felt like I had a specific plan for this stack size of just raise-calling off versus button, raise calling off versus small blind, raise-re-shoving when button flats and small blind shoves and only raise-folding when they both get it in. But as @MattBates has already pointed out I am mostly just going to get flatted by button and small blind is going to fold (or just call as well). So the eventuality that I thought I was protecting myself against is not happening often enough anyway to justify just opening this hand off this stack here. Mostly when I min raise here I am seeing a flop OOP against a range that is going to contain all the weak Ax, all the broadway combo's and lots of Kx, Qx, Jx and playing post flop is going to be grim most of the time. Wasting all the fold equity I had pre-flop with a hand and in a spot where I can eliminate a player with little risk or if button folds and small blind calls I get it in covering two players with a decent shot of two instant ladders + bounties + a very nice and playable stack to take into 8 handed play... the more I think about it now the more it looks like an absolute schoolboy error (no offence intended to schoolboys).

I also agree that a stack approaching 30bb does and should give us more options and does then allow us to work in more raise-folds and raise-calls.


Thanks for your input mate and congrats on taking down two tournaments back to back the other night. Beast.

MynaFrett

Hi @stokefc thanks for your input. You're absolutely right, he most definitely folds his hand here if I shove pre flop and the point the guys are making is that he is mostly going to have hands that can't call my shove (as is the player in the small blind but we don't mind getting it in so much against the small blind as we have him covered) which is absolutely why I should be shoving this hand off this stack size in this spot. You live and learn.