1 card flush draw on the turn would you call?

Dazler

Had this hand situation would you shove in my spot and would you call in otherplayers spot. Personaly i would have folded Ks. I could have checked it and let him bet into me then folded the river or raised on the turn but he was playing aggressive on most hands with any two cards and would of shoved on me anyway? went out in 10th after this and cashed with plenty of bounties so not complete disaster

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Dazler	Small blind		800.00	800.00	21021.00
kevinsnait	Big blind		1600.00	2400.00	33213.00
	Your hole cards	K A
Vskyshark	Raise		3200.00	5600.00	17350.00
Wacko90	Fold
666bumpy	Fold
Dazler	Call		2400.00	8000.00	18621.00
kevinsnait	Call		1600.00	9600.00	31613.00
Flop
		4 3 Q
Dazler	Check
kevinsnait	Check
Vskyshark	Bet		4800.00	14400.00	12550.00
Dazler	Call		4800.00	19200.00	13821.00
kevinsnait	Fold
Turn
		A
Dazler	All-in		13821.00	33021.00	0.00
Vskyshark	All-in		12550.00	45571.00	0.00
Dazler	Unmatched bet		1271.00	44300.00	1271.00
Dazler	Show	K A
Vskyshark	Show	K K
River
		J
Vskyshark	Win	Flush to the Ace	44300.00		44300.00

MattBates

Why are you not 3betting pre? Not sure we want to be playing hands out of position v someone you have said is aggressive. If I read correctly we have 21k at 1.6k so it seems a pretty straightforward shove.
As played you have no idea where you are and are playing out of position. Not sure I understand your shove on the turn, you suggest he would of shoved on you anyway so let him bluff it off rather than get him to fold loads of stuff we beat and only call the strong part of his range.

Summers119

Yes I agree with Matt (Who wouldn't)! You should fist pump go all in preflop, then be sad when he shows you Kings and rivers the flush

madprof

If your notes on me are up to date...I love a flush draw!

And even for a novice like me, AK I go allin pre flop and hope...

pretty much every time I try to play AK by limp calling/slow rolling(whatever the terminology is..) I get stuffed up so now in it goes and take the flush loss on the chin

Post flop I'd bet like he did to see where my kings are and post turn, ok its the ace but I've added the flush draw so why wouldn't I call your shove? ( but then again, I do lose a los so...eeek)

Dazler

Yea i know shoving pre might be the standard play but this was bubble and he did raise pre and I was hoping to trap him to be fair, AK only good if you hit and you do run into pk Ks, Qs As ect with these type of raises pre so a little caution was taken with still option to pull out and cash if need too. 3 betting would be pointless due to blind sizes and the shove pre could of scared him off. Remember im hoping to get all his stack and hes raising with any two just to steal blinds. I think shoving on the turn put him in a position to fold and me still take decent pot while not getting the suck out on the drawing flush card of which he was after with his call in the end so i was putting my money in ahead he was not.

Anyway regardless of if i should of shoved pre lol. The question is would you of checked the turn to trap or shoved and if you had the pk Ks would you of called in this spot knowing your losing and will go out on the bubble unless you hit a spade or the one King left in the deck?

Summers119

What hands are trying to trap? Most hands we dominate call a shove for 10bb pre anyway when they stick in 20% of there stack and by shoving it allows us not to let them catch up cheap.

When we shove the ICM pressure is on him not us as we cover for his bounty (which are usually bigger than the min cash anyway at this stage).

As played id probably check turn, and jam if he bets as he will be pot committed. If he checks back I would check fold this river unless he bets very small as I can't see taking that line with many bluffs as for instance KK without a spade would probably check back and take its showndown.

Dazler

he was raising large and folding on other hands i shoved over the top pre quite a lot of the time. So wanted him to commit once the flop came and if he had rubbish hands and hit part of it. But yes your right a shove pre is the best move here generally.

MattBates

You seem a bit inconsistent with what you are saying. Trying to trap but AK only good if you hit.
At these stack depths I wouldn't worry about trapping, we have a great hand vs an aggro player. Its fine if we win whats out there and we can be called by worse a lot.

As played I would check the turn. I don't think people often play Ax like you have so I can see why you were called.

Dazler

ok so title says '1 card flush draw on the turn would you call?' not would i shove all in pre which ive already stated in my posts. So please if your gonna post, answer the the question asked not state if my pre flop call was right or not lol. Otherwise i would of put it in the poker clinic!

MattBates

Yes I would call

jugglegeek

Yes I would call the turn. Even if they have turned an ace, I still have 11 outs (I'm not expecting to see AK here, give the pre-flop action) and by the turn he's put in 40% of a 10BB stack. He's likely made the desision to go all-in on the turn, no matter the runout when he bets the flop.

Jac35

Dazler said:

ok so title says '1 card flush draw on the turn would you call?' not would i shove all in pre which ive already stated in my posts. So please if your gonna post, answer the the question asked not state if my pre flop call was right or not lol. Otherwise i would of put it in the poker clinic!

I don’t really understand why you’re unhappy at getting free poker advice from players who have over £250,000 of online poker earnings on Sky alone

MattBates

You seem to feel hard done by because our opponent hit the flush on the river (and seem to want people to say oppo should of folded) but I don't think most players would play a flush or an ace like you have so the player with kings may feel they are still ahead some of the time and has outs if they are not. Also, trying to get folds in spots like this when vast amounts of small to start with stacks are in are hard as and we don't really have much fold equity.

Dazler

I think your making an incorrect assumption about my feelings due to the previous post which had no basis of fact as I did at no point say I would not take advice from someone. I just posted an interesting hand about the turn shove and call. At no point did i say i was hard done by! Did you see a bad beat rant? I was just curious on who would call and who would not in this spot and if you would shove or check the turn.

(if i had shoved pre there would be no point showing the hand right?). I play hands differently all the time pre and post and the point is as you stated he didn't think I had AK the way I played it so Job done, I get the call which I want. I shove pre generally in spots like this but decided differently on this occasion which i'm happy to have done. Out come doesn't concern me on the river as long as I get my chips in ahead.

The reason for this post was to see how many players would call the turn in this spot knowing you were behind and losing (1 from cash) which was a tuff spot for him. Giving advice about the pre flop action was already addressed so to me its just going over what had already been stated and original question was not being answered by posts and more focus was put on that i didn't shove pre which yea your most likely right and I Know this already, but that wasn't the question in the title was it.

No need to turn a post negative when no negativity had been applied in the first place and assumptions then being implied to me for taking part in a bit of forum banter.

"I wrote it the right way, so it was copied the wrong way right. I mean the right way wrong"

So advice taken Shove pre now with AK 'Check' now lets move on lol

hhyftrftdr

You definitely come across hard done by.

Think most people would call it off on the turn.

Dazler

So by your definition someone posting any hand they lost with 'in a brags, beats and Variance section is gonna end up being hard done by lmao. Thanks for your insightful wisdom sir. Hows that bandwagon treating you

hhyftrftdr

You're very salty and defensive, bit strange for someone claiming they aren't feeling hard done by.

But yeah, standard call for villain as played, and a sweet river too.

Dazler

Again so very constructive and obdurate, thank you for your wisdom

hhyftrftdr

Dazler said:

I think your making an incorrect assumption about my feelings due to the previous post which had no basis of fact as I did at no point say I would not take advice from someone. I just posted an interesting hand about the turn shove and call. At no point did i say i was hard done by! Did you see a bad beat rant? I was just curious on who would call and who would not in this spot and if you would shove or check the turn.

(if i had shoved pre there would be no point showing the hand right?). I play hands differently all the time pre and post and the point is as you stated he didn't think I had AK the way I played it so Job done, I get the call which I want. I shove pre generally in spots like this but decided differently on this occasion which i'm happy to have done. Out come doesn't concern me on the river as long as I get my chips in ahead.

The reason for this post was to see how many players would call the turn in this spot knowing you were behind and losing (1 from cash) which was a tuff spot for him. Giving advice about the pre flop action was already addressed so to me its just going over what had already been stated and original question was not being answered by posts and more focus was put on that i didn't shove pre which yea your most likely right and I Know this already, but that wasn't the question in the title was it.

No need to turn a post negative when no negativity had been applied in the first place and assumptions then being implied to me for taking part in a bit of forum banter.

"I wrote it the right way, so it was copied the wrong way right. I mean the right way wrong"

So advice taken Shove pre now with AK 'Check' now lets move on lol

Villain doesn't know he's behind though, does he? Probably hence the call, as there is a decent chance he's good and if not he has a fair few outs. Calling in his spot here looks fairly standard in what is a rather strange hand.

People saying jam pre which is a bit of a no brainer, but the check call on the flop for a decent %age of your stack whilst out of position is particularly bizarre given you have A high and no immediate draws whatsoever. What you doing if the turn is any number of brick cards?

It very much appears that you just want people to come on and say 'villain shouldn't have called there, so unlucky', but the mistakes in the hand weren't made by the villain.

So, to answer your question, I think villain has played it fine, and I would expect most players to call it off in this spot.

Dazler

Much better comments apart from the bit that i wanted people to say he should of folded. Not really much i would get out of that now is there. Otherwise id be posting those kind of hands all day long if i wanted to get that kind of gratification.

Good point about what would i have done if the turn was a blank though. And the answer to that was i would have shoved all in on the turn unless a 2 or 5 or 6 or another spade came and if he bets i would fold so i can still play with half my stack for another circuit and survive bubble and still cash or Final table. Mainly i was hoping to see my AKQJ10 type cards to check jam on the flop.

You have to also note I also would have no idea he's holding pk Ks due to history with the player so his range is wide with raises and Im looking to maximise my chips and not get a fold pre if i do shove of which he was doing most hands to steal blinds. My chips were going in no matter what unless the board didnt look great. As the cards did come on the flop it didnt look great to bet into utg or shove as any flush or st8 drawing hands would be calling me anyway. Im essentially waiting to pull the trigger or fold.

I dont think hes holding AQ or big pocket pair such as his K's or A's. As his bet size on the flop was pretty weak and I think it was a good bet on his part to enduce me to shove over the top of which I was tempted to do but if it wasnt for the st8 and flush draws on the board.

The other point with the turn shove is not only was i likely to have an A it looked more like i hit the flush or st8 on the turn after just the flat calling on the flop. If the A, K, J or 10 had not come on the turn and was a spade or low card I would be check folding.

As I said before the post is about what would you do in the spots post flop not pre as that was kinda standard in general. But i didnt play standard on this occasion so wanted to see how people would of played it themselves in this situation from both points of view. Hence asking if you would check or shove the turn.

Whether what i did was right or wrong in your eyes i did have a thought process and plan which just didnt pay off on this occasion. But one thing I can assure you of is that i dont need sympathy for losing ive been doing this too long to go on tilt. Basicaly its a scenario of a tight player vrs loose player on bubble kind of hand.

At the end of the day no matter how i played it i got my chips in ahead so Im not unhappy with how i played it.

p.s im not the one that called him a villan lol

Dazler

MattBates said:

You seem to feel hard done by because our opponent hit the flush on the river (and seem to want people to say oppo should of folded) but I don't think most players would play a flush or an ace like you have so the player with kings may feel they are still ahead some of the time and has outs if they are not. Also, trying to get folds in spots like this when vast amounts of small to start with stacks are in are hard as and we don't really have much fold equity.

Id like to think i dont play like most players
Isnt that the point they dont think your ahead when you actually are?