NL4 limped pot - Value/Iso Raise?

step7

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Blnze	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.86
tenshichan	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.49
	Your hole cards	10 K
step7	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£7.30
swiller	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£3.80
Imsogay	Fold
bob1964	Call		£0.04	£0.18	£2.70
Blnze	Call		£0.02	£0.20	£3.84
tenshichan	Check
Flop
		7 10 7
Blnze	Bet		£0.04	£0.24	£3.80
tenshichan	Call		£0.04	£0.28	£2.45
step7	Call		£0.04	£0.32	£7.26
swiller	Call		£0.04	£0.36	£3.76
bob1964	Call		£0.04	£0.40	£2.66
Turn
		J
Blnze	Bet		£0.08	£0.48	£3.72
tenshichan	Fold
step7	Fold
swiller	Call		£0.08	£0.56	£3.68
bob1964	Fold
River
		J
Blnze	Bet		£0.56	£1.12	£3.16
swiller	Fold
Blnze	Muck
Blnze	Win		£0.51		£3.67
Blnze	Return		£0.56	£0.05	£4.23

Struggle with decisions in these limped pots! Raise the min bet for value against was most likely a flush draw on the flop and go from there or as played and keep the pot small with stinking position praying for the miracle 10 and heart river to land 5 way?
Can see was a terrible fold turn for 8p, but didn't know if crazy time was going to kick off with action behind me and family pots frazzle my brain.

Don't shout at me for limping, no isolators at the table and hand after hand was limping into 4/5 way orbit after orbit and some pots bloating like this one and others just exploding!, Figured get in with a better than most hand that had some nut potential and at least see a flop.

Would post some "surrounding" hands to show some of the crazy action and over-play but can't protect the innocent by removing names as positions will give it away - wish i could

But example being A2o calling off on 334 board 100BB racing AKs with the nut flush draw!! Needless to say caller was in God mode

neely0y0

I wouldn't be open limping utg in any scenario myself. You have to flop so hard to be comfortable from this position, as this hand demonstrates. If I did find myself here I probably play flop and turn the same and kick myself for my preflop mistake.

step7

Take your point totally neely from standard TAG perspective, but can we never have a limping range on soft tables with no Iso going on? It gives us opportunity to get in there with the "fishes"? Your point about position stands, position is position is position!

Looking back at the hand, I'm kicking myself but not because I limped in marginal UTG, but because that's such an easy call/fold to re-raise behind - the whole point of my line here was to hit an upper nutty hand and take one or more stacks, I should have stuck to the plan called and hoped for the 10 river with massive implied odds on this table.

*For the record saw you limping UTG a few times last night matey, so never say never!
I think when a good reg does this, their range is so obvious unless they're trapping and why would they do that an nl4?, unless they're at a table full of other good regs or a maniac? Hope it wasn't in reaction to some of my whack play (was just funning around last night, gg btw), that's such a waste on some pretty decent tables.

neely0y0

sure I'm not saying never limp, but its the position here which is important. If I'm at a really passive table with lotsa limpers I'd rather limp behind the button w any trashy Qxs that open limp utg w K 10s. If you hit really hard it's so difficult to get value and so easy to fold the best hand when someone bets the river and you are marginal.

Also you never saw me limp utg ever lol. I'll limp a mixed range sb vs bb but never utg.

step7

Yes limping behind on the D with spec. hands has got to be +ev on pass. tables if POWs present - hi suited espec., see 7 hi flushes being played like the nuts constantly!

Think I had joke with you at some point during table talk about raising small pairs OOP, no b*gger folding then being hog-tied in a 5 card flip against 3+ callers and guaranteed board will be 5 over cards hoping your 66 is good if it gets to showdown.

Classic wisdom is open raise all pp (ok baby pp depending on position), but that one case where you may have to defy convention at passive nl4!

I'd be curious how people are doing limp-calling small pp. assuming if normally passive opens, you've got to assume they've got a hand they could pay off with if you set - maybe that's why they never buy in full and don't top up, just to deny you implied odds - very clever

Not defending KTs UTG limp, but was a very special table and was trying to find a way! Just goes to show hit and still gave up as OOP.

Will go do some HH reviews, I'll let you know if your mistaken with the never-say-never

step7

Not that raising small pp can't be profitable! This wasn't long after you said nighty-night to everyone neely.

It's all so situational, to be honest here I was constantly raising any two just get in a pot HU with villain, limp call would have worked fine following on from previous post.

Guy was stacking off light time after time - no betting subtlety required - just over bet jam - he'd call any made hand/draw - did start to feel sorry for him (I'm too soft) .
Quite funny as his opening comment as he sat was "OK guys going to take all your moneys".

To be fair, good wedge of equity for him here compared to some of his stack offs. (40% vs 66..QQ) - I', sure I only held becuse you'd left the table neely

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Jamsla231	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.05
great	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£5.02
	Your hole cards	5 5
itsmebaby	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£8.14
step7	Raise		£0.12	£0.22	£13.47
portling	Fold
POW!!	Raise		£0.46	£0.68	£5.16
Jamsla231	Fold
great	Fold
itsmebaby	Fold
step7	Call		£0.34	£1.02	£13.13
Flop
		3 2 5
step7	All-in		£13.13	£14.15	£0.00
POW!!	All-in		£5.16	£19.31	£0.00
step7	Unmatched bet		£7.97	£11.34	£7.97
step7	Show	5 5
POW!!	Show	K 4
Turn
		10
River
		4
step7	Win	Three 5s	£10.48		£18.45