Basic C-Bet or Not Spot vs 2 nl4

step7

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Trojan1904	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£5.48
JAM888	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.99
	Your hole cards	Q 10
I4GOT2FISH	Fold
step7	Raise		£0.12	£0.18	£5.83
skyjack12	Call		£0.12	£0.30	£3.25
Trojan1904	Call		£0.10	£0.40	£5.38
JAM888	Fold
Flop
		6 2 J
Trojan1904	Check
step7	Check
skyjack12	Bet		£0.40	£0.80	£2.85
Trojan1904	Call		£0.40	£1.20	£4.98
step7	Fold
Turn
		J
Trojan1904	Check
skyjack12	Bet		£0.60	£1.80	£2.25
Trojan1904	Fold
skyjack12	Muck
skyjack12	Win		£1.11		£3.36
skyjack12	Return		£0.60	£0.09	£3.96

Villains look pretty standard recreational loose-passive, though SkyJack is pretty aggro pre opening a lot of hands! Soon slows down post most times, guessing his range that wide he can't have too much to fight with.

Question is am I checking all day long here, or worth the occasional stab with overcard and BD draws?

harding10

Fold pre. That hand in that position isn't going to be profitable long term at nl4

mumsie

harding10 said:

Fold pre. That hand in that position isn't going to be profitable long term at nl4

Yes, an aggro player with position on us doesn't help us, either tighten up against him or leave table.

waller02

Agree with fold pre. As played I think I would be putting in a small cbet, there are a lot of good turn cards. Checking has handed the initiative over to your opponents and you have to fold to pot sized bet. Bet 15-20p and fold if raised?? I don't play cash though

step7

Guys thanks for your feedback - I'm hearing you!
nl4 should be an easy game and spots like this are easily avoided - cheers.

AcidTripss

FWIW I would open Qto all day here at nl4, guys will call you with hands we dominate very often and in general will under 3b. We can adjust based on the players behind, if the BTN is 3betting alot, which is uncommon at these stakes, unless hes a laggy reg perceiving you to be on the looser side, we can tighten up a bit.

As for SB. If he's recreational he'll **** loads of hand here, it's important to keep in mind CO range aswell when we cbet 3 way.

What're your initial thoughts when you reach this flop vs both ranges? Argue to me why cbetting big is better than checking and why checking is better than betting. How would your strategy change if you was HU vs BTN?

What are your reasons for betting the turn as played?

Itsover4u

harding10 said:

Fold pre. That hand in that position isn't going to be profitable long term at nl4

Mmmm they are effectively in the cutoff as only 5 players at the table so the open is fine (almost mandatory) I mean you can fold if the rake is really high... no idea what it is at 2nl - but raising is almost most definitely the most profitable move from the cut off.

Stabbing multiway is pretty texture dependent and it does not get much dryer than 2 6 j. We have semi decent backdoor flush and nutted backdoor straight combos but we dont want to just be bombing huge into two players.

Like we want to bet like 25 - 33% of the pot to fold out all the k10, q9, 78 type hands and you will generally accomplish that with a small bet so no point bloating.

There is also a ton of turns I am firing much bigger especially if heads up... however another J would not be one of them it is just a check fold.

FeelGroggy

Preflop is an open, don't think it does amazing but it should be better than open folding. Especially at a stake level where people are going to be making monumental mistakes postflop.

When thinking about good bluff candidates considering the back-door potential of a hand is extremely important. This hand is one of your more premium bluffs. It has no value at showdown and turns rather well in terms of gutshots, open enders and flush draws. If you hit your Queen you can continue betting for value as your going to be ahead extremely often. Holding the Qc means you get called slightly less on the flop as your opponents can't have flush draws that have a Queen in them or float with say KxQc AxQc. There are lots of runouts where you apply a ton of pressure to top pair hands and consider firing 3 streets (i.e clubs, turn K/A.) I think going third pot- 2 third's pot range is a reasonable sizing choice, although given the in-elasticity of a lot of players at this stake level firing out a bet of say 14p with this kind of hand and bigger as a value bet (especially ones like QQ that don't block the top pair card but are ahead of it) might be more efficient.