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bad call or just unlucky?

Danyo0Danyo0 Member Posts: 170
edited August 2019 in Poker Chat
thoughts on the below hand, I mean in a decent position in the tournament was it worth calling the jam for my tournament life at this stage with a set? sb v bb.:
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Danyo0Small blind100.00100.006181.25
alanna701Big blind200.00300.006216.25
Your hole cards
  • J
  • J
LJ_Elson72Fold
broldo88Fold
ROBINAYRFold
Danyo0Raise500.00800.005681.25
alanna701Call400.001200.005816.25
Flop
  • A
  • K
  • J
Danyo0Bet1200.002400.004481.25
alanna701All-in5816.258216.250.00
Danyo0All-in4481.2512697.500.00
alanna701Unmatched bet135.0012562.50135.00
Danyo0Show
  • J
  • J
alanna701Show
  • Q
  • 10
Turn
  • 2
River
  • 7
alanna701WinStraight to the Ace12562.5012697.50
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Comments

  • Allan23Allan23 Member Posts: 876
    Yes
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  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,741
    Im calling
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  • TWRAMYEPTWRAMYEP Member Posts: 351
    Lots of hands other than the nuts shove here
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  • K0BAYASHlK0BAYASHl Member Posts: 2,029
    edited August 2019
    Are you posting this hand on the forum if your JJ held?
    I’m calling this shove.
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  • Danyo0Danyo0 Member Posts: 170
    K0BAYASHl said:

    Are you posting this hand on the forum if your JJ held?
    I’m calling this shove.

    @KOBAYASHI i dont post if I hold however I just felt it was an interesting spot and wanted to see what other players would do in this situation thats all.


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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,869
    You are getting ok odds to call even on his current nut holding. Getting 2-1 on your money to call where you are 35% to win the hand, quite apart from all the inferior hands (such as AK) that may be shoving there.
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  • K0BAYASHlK0BAYASHl Member Posts: 2,029
    Danyo0 said:

    K0BAYASHl said:

    Are you posting this hand on the forum if your JJ held?
    I’m calling this shove.

    @KOBAYASHI i dont post if I hold however I just felt it was an interesting spot and wanted to see what other players would do in this situation thats all.


    You want to be posting a range of hands not just coolers.
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  • TWRAMYEPTWRAMYEP Member Posts: 351
    edited August 2019
    .
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  • Danyo0Danyo0 Member Posts: 170
    K0BAYASHl said:

    Danyo0 said:

    K0BAYASHl said:

    Are you posting this hand on the forum if your JJ held?
    I’m calling this shove.

    @KOBAYASHI i dont post if I hold however I just felt it was an interesting spot and wanted to see what other players would do in this situation thats all.


    You want to be posting a range of hands not just coolers.
    @KOBAYASHI that is fair, I know that the spot is a call all day long in a cash game, I was only seeking opinions in terms of a tournament if I should consider other things in these spots. When getting coolered it makes me think so I reach out. I am not posting saying oh look at me I run so bad, Im posting to seek advice to see if I should consider other components thats all as I want to improve and win more tournaments.

    But I will strive to post more ranges of hands.
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  • bencbenc Member Posts: 1,061
    Danyo think it's fine to post this hand despite it being a cooler,it is still a worthwhile spot to think about ranges in general as if you were to fold in this spot you'd potentially have a big leak mainly because you'd be playing too tight vs an overall range, bit of advice for these kind of hands, sit down and list a range of hands you think oppo can have here, bearing in mind AA and KK probably 3b pre so can confidently discount them hands. (we do block jx combos which limits some of the value we beat that oppo has but still will factor in) Aj,Aq, Kq Kj, A10 potentially any weaker Ax if oppo is just a flop top pair and want to get it in type player on a percieved dangerous board,then you also have flush draws that players might want to gamble with once they get a flop like that, having an idea of what player type you're up against can also be very useful for accurately building a range for oppo here aswell, for example a looser aggro player you can put aload of flush ds one pair hands etc that he would be getting it in with, but a tight player you might really narrow the range which would influence your decision, however in this spot whatever way you range oppo i think JJ is doing very well.
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  • K0BAYASHlK0BAYASHl Member Posts: 2,029
    Danyo0 said:

    K0BAYASHl said:

    Danyo0 said:

    K0BAYASHl said:

    Are you posting this hand on the forum if your JJ held?
    I’m calling this shove.

    @KOBAYASHI i dont post if I hold however I just felt it was an interesting spot and wanted to see what other players would do in this situation thats all.


    You want to be posting a range of hands not just coolers.
    @KOBAYASHI that is fair, I know that the spot is a call all day long in a cash game, I was only seeking opinions in terms of a tournament if I should consider other things in these spots. When getting coolered it makes me think so I reach out. I am not posting saying oh look at me I run so bad, Im posting to seek advice to see if I should consider other components thats all as I want to improve and win more tournaments.

    But I will strive to post more ranges of hands.
    I know, I think your fine to post hand too but you need to post a range of hands too. Not just because you lost it, even hands you won are good to post for reviews.
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  • Danyo0Danyo0 Member Posts: 170
    K0BAYASHl said:

    Danyo0 said:

    K0BAYASHl said:

    Danyo0 said:

    K0BAYASHl said:

    Are you posting this hand on the forum if your JJ held?
    I’m calling this shove.

    @KOBAYASHI i dont post if I hold however I just felt it was an interesting spot and wanted to see what other players would do in this situation thats all.


    You want to be posting a range of hands not just coolers.
    @KOBAYASHI that is fair, I know that the spot is a call all day long in a cash game, I was only seeking opinions in terms of a tournament if I should consider other things in these spots. When getting coolered it makes me think so I reach out. I am not posting saying oh look at me I run so bad, Im posting to seek advice to see if I should consider other components thats all as I want to improve and win more tournaments.

    But I will strive to post more ranges of hands.
    I know, I think your fine to post hand too but you need to post a range of hands too. Not just because you lost it, even hands you won are good to post for reviews.
    @KOBAYASHI I am working on doing that, and I have done so since this post.
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  • K0BAYASHlK0BAYASHl Member Posts: 2,029
    Danyo0 said:

    K0BAYASHl said:

    Danyo0 said:

    K0BAYASHl said:

    Danyo0 said:

    K0BAYASHl said:

    Are you posting this hand on the forum if your JJ held?
    I’m calling this shove.

    @KOBAYASHI i dont post if I hold however I just felt it was an interesting spot and wanted to see what other players would do in this situation thats all.


    You want to be posting a range of hands not just coolers.
    @KOBAYASHI that is fair, I know that the spot is a call all day long in a cash game, I was only seeking opinions in terms of a tournament if I should consider other things in these spots. When getting coolered it makes me think so I reach out. I am not posting saying oh look at me I run so bad, Im posting to seek advice to see if I should consider other components thats all as I want to improve and win more tournaments.

    But I will strive to post more ranges of hands.
    I know, I think your fine to post hand too but you need to post a range of hands too. Not just because you lost it, even hands you won are good to post for reviews.
    @KOBAYASHI I am working on doing that, and I have done so since this post.
    I’m not berating you or anything, just trying to help. I have seen you have posted other hands. I was just replying to previous posts and talking in general.

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  • Vince_107Vince_107 Member Posts: 70
    What range of hands do you think your opponent could have here? IMO it could look something like this:
    Straights: QT
    Two Pairs: AJ, KJ
    Top Pair + Gutshots: AQo, ATo
    Pair + Fush Draws K4-KQhh
    Gutshot + Flush Draws: Q7-Q9hh, T7-T9hh
    Flush Draws: 98hh, 97hh, 87hh

    vs that range you're 66% with JJ

    Even taking out the weaker FDs and AQ/AT you're still 55%
    You're calling 4481 to win 12,562, so you need <36% equity to call
    Even if his range is only QT, KQhh and KThh (so the nuts or pair + royal FD hands), you still have to call (38% equity)
    If you're against exactly QT only, then you can fold (34.6%)

    Seems like there's no ICM considerations in this hand, so yeah, don't ever fold unless he shows you QT... even then, just call and make a full house
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  • bbMikebbMike Member Posts: 3,720
    Have you thought about sizing the flop bet? Perhaps a smaller cbet would allow you to control the hand a little better if you don’t want to get jammed on.
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  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,741
    I actually wonder what hand the villain put you on here when he 5x your post flop bet.

    Yes he has the nuts but surely he risks losing chips/money by folding you out, unless the table dynamic led him to believe that you were always calling the shove.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited August 2019
    TheEdge949 said:

    I actually wonder what hand the villain put you on here when he 5x your post flop bet.

    Yes he has the nuts but surely he risks losing chips/money by folding you out, unless the table dynamic led him to believe that you were always calling the shove.

    Think the villains play is fine and the correct line given the action.
    Stacks aren't that deep anyway, and hero has 3x'ed pre and then bet flop on a wet board. This alone suggests he has something that he quite likes.

    Shoving on a board of that texture means you can represent a whole number of draws/pair and draw hands whilst actually holding the nuts.
    You could obviously just call with the QT but there are quite a few potential bad turn cards; bad in that they could kill your action or see you go behind. Maybe an argument for just peeling if you hold either the Qh or the Th, but even calling looks strong and shoving possibly looks weaker.
    Ultimately if you have a chance to play for stacks when you have the nuts then go for it.

    Think hero has also played it fine, just one of them spots you're never getting away from nor should you want to get away from.
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