Should i keep barreling here?

PKRPar

In the main event yesterday (Thursday 6K bounty hunter, 5k starting stack), relatively early doors and table playing really loose, especially the two that join me in the hand.

I open, two callers, C-bet... two callers, bet out again on the turn... two callers, then i had no idea what to do when it came to me again on the river.

Should i perceive the calling down as extreme weakness against loose players, and they missed by the time the river came? In the past i've donked my stack off to be called by a non-believer, so that was playing in my mind. I definitely didn't expect the two players to show what they ended up showing, and with hindsight i'd like to think a strong third bet on the river would have done the job.

So I have two questions here;

1) any thoughts on the play? I appreciate that Q10 off isn't the greatest of hands to be barreling, however it was a really loose table and i saw an opportunity (generally).

2) If a player is generally at your table who you wouldn't class as a Matt Bates, are they ever just checking and calling down when they have the goods, or would you expect an average player to three bet at somepoint?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
S1D	Small blind		30.00	30.00	6150.00
Player A	Big blind		60.00	90.00	5960.00
	Your hole cards	10 Q
Hoff92	Fold
Player B	Call		60.00	150.00	3240.00
PKRPar	Raise		180.00	330.00	5300.00
Monty15	Fold
S1D	Fold
Player A	Call		120.00	450.00	5840.00
Player B	Call		120.00	570.00	3120.00
Flop
		2 5 2
Player A	Check
Player B	Check
PKRPar	Bet		300.00	870.00	5000.00
Player A	Call		300.00	1170.00	5540.00
Player B	Call		300.00	1470.00	2820.00
Turn
		K
Player A	Check
Player B	Check
PKRPar	Bet		735.00	2205.00	4265.00
Player A	Call		735.00	2940.00	4805.00
Player B	Call		735.00	3675.00	2085.00
River
		9
Player A	Check
Player B	Check
PKRPar	Check
Player A	Show	Q 4
Player B	Show	3 A
PKRPar	Muck	10 Q
Player B	Win	Pair of 2s	3675.00		5760.00

Itsover4u

i prefer folding pre or 2.5x if you want to play it in position. flop is just a check give up - turn is an even bigger give up - as played on the river you check when it is a pure bluff as all the draws miss and it is the only way you can win the pot - however im not hopeful it gets through, but we pretty much have to do it

Itsover4u

the flop is like x fold to any bet pretty much 100% frequency

MynaFrett

MynaFrett

I'm also not a huge fan of choosing the QTo to isolate the limper with here and would also prefer to just fold this one - there are so many value hands (big pairs, big aces) and playable hands (suited Ax, suited broadway, suited connectors) we get to isolate with in these spots that give us easier decisions post flop, don't needlessly put us into too many marginal spots and give us more potential to win big pots by making our hand or give us better semi-bluffing opportunities on flops and barrelling opportunities with equity on turns (see above).

As played though I like the c-bet and I actually think a larger size is fine in this spot on this kind of low paired board when nobody has any kind of deuce very often (only A2s in theory) and we have a range advantage that includes all the big pocket pairs looking to build a pot vs their small to middling pocket pairs and when we have TT/99 (for example) we don't want to allow a hand like QJs with BDFD to be able to draw to pairs and flush draws cheaply, so we have a lot of credible hands that want to bet here and for a larger size. (I think this is actually a flop we get to c-bet close to 100% of the time and for a larger size here but on paired boards with higher cards like QQJ/JJT we will be c-betting much less frequently and also for a smaller size when/if we do).

I also think the K is a much better card for our range than it is for theirs as played. We can continue to represent AA/KK our AK has now paired as have all the other K high hands we would/could isolate pre and take this line with (KQs/KJs/KTs/K9s) so I like the decision to barrel once we find ourselves here - we put immense pressure on their ranges that should still be condensed around some ace highs and pocket pairs.

Being called in two spots again on the turn sucks though and I think it would be prudent to just give up on river... or just pot it and continue to say "yea, that's right, I have AA/KK what ya gonna do about it?"
We do also block some Kx combo's with the QT... if they somehow have the 55 or the 99 then gg but other than that I don't really see what can call you down/stack off with here as played. Also; check-call, check-call, donk lead river huge is often the preferred line when they have 55 here for some reason, allowing you to fold all your bluffs and hero fold Aces too...