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General Election- a job for @Haysie

madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,461
Now we have the majority of election manifestos, wouldn't it be good for someone to construct a simple summary table of key issues and party promises, especially with all of the key issues that other parties have chosen not to comment on?

For me an objective, summary table would enable us all to have a clearer view before I vote...Liberal (oops did say that out loud


Tony? ( @HAYSIE ) you've got time on your hands....
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Comments

  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    You would need a majority Government to push anything in their manifestos through.
    Don’t hold your breath Madprof.
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,461
    chilling said:

    You would need a majority Government to push anything in their manifestos through.
    Don’t hold your breath Madprof.

    I agree...that's like people who say they agree with Boris when he says lets "get brexit done"

    It staggers me how the perception is thats the end of it, when really the day it happens, its only just the start..even my MIL who is a remainer has been brainwashed to use the phrase thinking that it, done...all over

    FFS are people really so naive?
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,461
    madprof said:

    Now we have the majority of election manifestos, wouldn't it be good for someone to construct a simple summary table of key issues and party promises, especially with all of the key issues that other parties have chosen not to comment on?

    For me an objective, summary table would enable us all to have a clearer view before I vote...Liberal (oops did say that out loud


    Tony? ( @HAYSIE ) you've got time on your hands....

    Come on Abdul, you must be awake by now?
  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 9,150
    While we wait........ L.B.C.

    A caller told Len McCluskey he "does not understand" why unite have endorsed Jeremy Corbyn and calls the party leader "toxic".

    A caller, Colin, told General Secretary of Unite the Union, Len McCluskey that "When the Union endorsed Corbyn it wasn't put to the members, and there's no way he would have got the vote."

    He declared: "The man is toxic."

    Unite is the largest affiliate and a major donor to the Labour Party.

    Colin continued: "Jeremy Corbyn needs to get out and talk to people because he's just talking to his own circle.

    Recall stories from his friends who canvas for the Labour Party, he said: "You ask people who canvas and the answer is always 'I can't vote for that bloke'.

    "Every time he does a media interview the party loses thousands of votes. These people are serially incompetent."

    Colin also damned the party as "a cult" under Corbyn.


    Len McCluskey replied: "I have to completely disagree with you when you say the Labour Party has become a cult.

    "The Labour Party is the biggest political party in Europe and the reason for this is Corbyn and his new style of politics, which attracted hundreds of thousands of new members, an awful lot of them young members.

    "Two years ago Jeremy Corbyn took us within touching distance of power.

    Presenter IainDale questions this however, saying "No you didn't you were 60 seats behind".

    Len McCluskey comments: "This is a decent, genuine man who has policies that will change your life, change the lives of members and change the lives of ordinary people.

    Colin furiously interjects with: "He's got no chance mate, why do you keep on with this guff?

    "You're handing the next election to Johnson on a plate by leaving this man in place

    "It's too late now, all we can do is limit the damage

    Len McCluskey argues: "Well Colin, obviously I'm slightly more optimistic than you, I believe we can win this election.

    Colin then retorts: "You need to look at reality mate."

    Len McCluskey then repeats that Labour is the only party that can change the lives of ordinary people.

    Colin hits back: "They would with a credible leader."
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    madprof said:

    madprof said:

    Now we have the majority of election manifestos, wouldn't it be good for someone to construct a simple summary table of key issues and party promises, especially with all of the key issues that other parties have chosen not to comment on?

    For me an objective, summary table would enable us all to have a clearer view before I vote...Liberal (oops did say that out loud


    Tony? ( @HAYSIE ) you've got time on your hands....

    Come on Abdul, you must be awake by now?
    I am now awake.
  • MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 4,118
    Do you think many people look at the manifestos or are swayed by what is in them?
  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 9,150
    A young Conservative activist has told LBC he doesn't think 16-year-olds are knowledgeable enough to be allowed to vote in the general election.

    Iain Dale hosted a youth panel with young activists from each party - and it was a fascinating look at the way teenagers today think about politics.A young Conservative activist has told LBC he doesn't think 16-year-olds are knowledgeable enough to be allowed to vote in the general election.

    Iain Dale hosted a youth panel with young activists from each party - and it was a fascinating look at the way teenagers today think about politics.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I think only small number of 16 year old's would bother to vote given the opportunity.
    We were all told we didn't know what we were voting for in the referendum.
    Young man had a point, in that, Politics should be part of the Curriculum in Schools.

  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    MattBates said:

    Do you think many people look at the manifestos or are swayed by what is in them?

    I think that many voters take notice of the headlines, and it is very easy to point to measures that have had a particularly adverse effect on General Election Campaigns.
    What probably has a bigger effect is each the ability of each party to sell their message to the general public.
    There is a consensus that the reason that Theresa May lost the Tory majority in 2017, through her own ineffective campaigning, and the Dementia Tax.
    Tax cuts are always popular, as are improvements to the NHS, and extra police officers.

    Since Jo Swinson branded the Lib Dems, Jo Swinsons Lib Dems, they have dropped like a stone in the polls.
    She blasted the population with her squirrel like mug, all over buses and millions of leaflets.
    Only to discover she was not as popular as she thought.
    They cant get a majority, and therefore their manifesto is irrelevant, including their revoke policy on Brexit.
    A more realistic demand for concessions in respect of supporting another party would have been a far more realistic position to take.

    Why would The Greens even waste their time producing a manifesto?

    The Tories seem to be unaffected by their constant lying, and seem to be getting away with credit for producing measures to counteract the cuts that they were responsible for making.
    Like bringing back the police officers that they cut, more funding for schools that they have starved of funds, and increasing NHS funding which they have underfunded for the last ten years.
    It is difficult for them to absolve themselves of responsibility for the crime figures, NHS stats, etc, etc, when they have been in power for 10 years, but they seem to be getting away with it, as they still have a big lead in the polls.

    I think that Jeremy Corbyn may well be personally responsible for this lead.
    He is clearly not a leader.
    A successful political leader sells their policies to the country.
    They do this by producing cogent arguments for why they will be good, and persuade us to vote for them.
    Brexit is the most important of our time.
    Yet Corbyn is neutral on it.
    How is that possible?
    Leaving the EU will either be good for our country or not.
    Brexit will cause damage to our economy.
    Some people that voted for Brexit, did so for other reasons.
    You can forgive a member of the public for not being sure, but surely not a political leader.
    What is he thinking of?

    A football club manager whose side was losing at half time, would go into the dressing room during the break, with all guns blazing, review their current tactics, maybe alter the formation, perhaps a substitution, discuss exploiting the weaknesses of the opposition, and deliver an inspirational, motivational, team talk.
    He would do this because he is the leader.
    Jeremy Corbyn in the same situation would avoid the dressing room, and say I will leave it up to them.
    Because he is just not a leader.
    He is trying to buy votes, but is still miles behind.

    He just cant seem to accept any responsibility.
    If you just take anti Semitism.
    It doesn't matter what he has got to say about it.
    He hasn't been able to solve this problem in over three years.
    The proof of the pudding is that it keeps coming back to bite him in the ar5e, time and time again.
    He can say what he wants, but he hasn't stopped it.
    How could you trust him to run the country?


  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 8,122


    Seems like Corbyn has secretly been giving the club he supports Arsenal some managerial leadership coaching...
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    lucy4 said:



    Seems like Corbyn has secretly been giving the club he supports Arsenal some managerial leadership coaching...

    Their results would seem to support that.
  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 8,122


    And that precisely sums it all up in 1 paragraph.The Tories know they can make and break promises/pledges time after time,as there is no credible opposition to them.Labour would virtually bankrupt the country as always,Lib Dems & Greens are totally insignificant to make any difference at all & Farage has sold out the Brexit party supporters by not standing candidates against Boris,to achieve a 'Brexit' that is Brexit in name only and far from what Farage stood for.So it's yet another term in power for the party who have made the polices for the last 10 years.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    The only certainty is that there will be a lot of unhappy folks after all the results are in.
    Then a couple of weeks with the media trying to work out what the result actually means.
    Then it’s Christmas, with the Queens Speech being the highlight😉
    Then onto New Year by the Thames.
    I’ve heard that it’s just the one sparkler on the wheel this year, to cut down on the CO2 emissions.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    As an observer, I think it’s a bit harsh to keep on about ten years of austerity under the Conservatives, as the banking crisis occurred under Labours watch.
    Alistair Darling was the guy who approved the billions of bail out debt, and quite rightly so.
    There would have been a catastrophe had he not acted.
    It’s now evident that public spending should have increased a few years ago, but to say ten years ago is wrong imo. Unless someone out there had a better solution to solving banks going under and those consequences thereafter.
    I’m no Tory btw, my dad worked for the Royal Mail for 35years, and was in their union.
    As an 8-9 year old, I stayed up late to watch the results come in.
    I used to cheer if Labour won a seat as if it was a goal at the footie.
    Hopefully I’m a bit wiser now.
  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 8,122
    A Labour government always leaves the country the same way...skint. A Conservative government then has to pick up the pieces,with the poorest in society paying the heaviest price.Remember the "We're all in this together" claptrap being spouted everywhere.When people having to rely on food banks reached unprecedented highs,just remember,"We're all in this together".
  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 9,150
    These young Activists are pretty good entertainment, we should get rid "House of Lords" boring old far ts, put thirty, forty of the best in instead and let them loose.
    So what you think I should do lads.



  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    lucy4 said:

    A Labour government always leaves the country the same way...skint. A Conservative government then has to pick up the pieces,with the poorest in society paying the heaviest price.Remember the "We're all in this together" claptrap being spouted everywhere.When people having to rely on food banks reached unprecedented highs,just remember,"We're all in this together".

    There is very little choice.

    Its a field day for cartoonists, but we are the fodder.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    chilling said:

    As an observer, I think it’s a bit harsh to keep on about ten years of austerity under the Conservatives, as the banking crisis occurred under Labours watch.
    Alistair Darling was the guy who approved the billions of bail out debt, and quite rightly so.
    There would have been a catastrophe had he not acted.
    It’s now evident that public spending should have increased a few years ago, but to say ten years ago is wrong imo. Unless someone out there had a better solution to solving banks going under and those consequences thereafter.
    I’m no Tory btw, my dad worked for the Royal Mail for 35years, and was in their union.
    As an 8-9 year old, I stayed up late to watch the results come in.
    I used to cheer if Labour won a seat as if it was a goal at the footie.
    Hopefully I’m a bit wiser now.

    Labour not responsible for crash, says former Bank of England governor

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/dec/29/labour-government-not-responsible-crash-bank-england-governor-mervyn-king




    There is an argument on whether austerity was the correct way to go.

    The PFI contracts were a disaster. The spending on no deal Brexit preparation was a shocking waste of money.




    Figures released under Freedom of Information show that North Staffordshire NHS trust paid £242 to put a padlock while North Cumbria University Hospitals NHS trust paid £466 to replace a light fitting and £75 for an air freshener. A trust in Salisbury paid £15,000 to “install a laundry door following feasibility study”.
    Other charges include £8,450 to install an “additional dishwasher” for a NHS trust in Hull, £962 to “supply and fix notice-board” at a trust in Leeds and £26,614 for the “replacement of shower room doors” at the Sussex Partnership Trust.
    The Coventry and Warwickshire University Hospitals NHS Trust was charged £4,459 to “supply and install a new CCTV camera” while a hospital trust in Ipswich Hospital was billed £120 to call out an engineer to reset an alarm.
    The same trust in Ipswich also was charged four separate payments of £120 on false call-outs, including one to investigate a static shock received from a door which turned out not to be the contractor’s responsibility.
    Every man, woman and child in Britain is more than £3,400 in debt – without knowing it and without borrowing a single penny – thanks to the proliferation of controversial deals used to pay for infrastructure such as schools and hospitals.
    The UK owes more than £222bn to banks and businesses as a result of Private Finance Initiatives (PFIs) – “buy now, pay later” agreements between the government and private companies on major projects. The startling figure – described by experts as a “financial disaster” – has been calculated as part of an Independent on Sunday analysis of Treasury data on more than 720 PFIs. The analysis has been verified by the National Audit Office (NAO).



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8973557/Hospitals-being-charged-extortionate-sums-by-PFI-sums-to-carry-out-basic-DIY-jobs.html



    Crippling PFI deals leave Britain £222bn in debt
    Exclusive: Treasury data analysis unearths the 'enormous financial disaster' of Private Finance Initiatives



    The headline debt is based on “unitary charges” which start this month and will continue for 35 years. They include fees for services rendered, such as maintenance and cleaning, as well as the repayment of loans underwritten by banks and investment companies.

    The system has yielded assets valued at £56.5bn. But Britain will pay more than five times that amount under the terms of the PFIs used to create them, and in some cases be left with nothing to show for it, because the PFI agreed to is effectively a leasing agreement. Some £88bn has already been spent, and even if the projected cost between now and 2049/50 does not change, the total PFI bill will be in excess of £310bn. This is more than four times the budget deficit used to justify austerity cuts to government budgets and local services.

    According to Jean Shaoul, professor emerita at Manchester Business School, PFIs have been “an enormous financial disaster in terms of cost”. She added: “Frankly, it’s very corrupt... no rational government, looking at the interests of the citizenry as a whole, would do this.”

    Unlike government funding, PFI’s cannot be adjusted to match the economy’s fortunes. They are governed by contracts that often run to thousands of pages. In contrast to the radical cuts to public spending, less than 1 per cent has been trimmed from the total cost of PFI deals since 2012.
    Danny Alexander, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, admitted last month: “Too many of the old PFI deals were poorly negotiated... with high costs draining local and national coffers.”

    Last year The Independent revealed how firms given 25-year contracts to build and maintain schools doubled their money by selling their shares in the schemes less than five years into the deals. Four – Balfour Beatty, Carillion, Interserve, and Kier – made combined profits of over £300m.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/money/loans-credit/crippling-pfi-deals-leave-britain-222bn-in-debt-10170214.html
  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 9,150

    Search Results; Would "Corbyn" if he won, cough! get set of keys to No 10

    No, in the sense that nobody has any keys for the famous front door onto Downing Street itself. ... However, the famous front door is not, of course, the only way into Number 10. There are other entrances, used by staff and anyone else - including the PM - who has regular access to the building.

    Does the new Prime Minister literally get a set of keys for 10 ... No

    Could Corbyn get in by the back door.............?
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    As an observer, I think it’s a bit harsh to keep on about ten years of austerity under the Conservatives, as the banking crisis occurred under Labours watch.
    Alistair Darling was the guy who approved the billions of bail out debt, and quite rightly so.
    There would have been a catastrophe had he not acted.
    It’s now evident that public spending should have increased a few years ago, but to say ten years ago is wrong imo. Unless someone out there had a better solution to solving banks going under and those consequences thereafter.
    I’m no Tory btw, my dad worked for the Royal Mail for 35years, and was in their union.
    As an 8-9 year old, I stayed up late to watch the results come in.
    I used to cheer if Labour won a seat as if it was a goal at the footie.
    Hopefully I’m a bit wiser now.

    Labour not responsible for crash, says former Bank of England governor

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/dec/29/labour-government-not-responsible-crash-bank-england-governor-mervyn-king




    There is an argument on whether austerity was the correct way to go.

    The PFI contracts were a disaster. The spending on no deal Brexit preparation was a shocking waste of money.




    Figures released under Freedom of Information show that North Staffordshire NHS trust paid £242 to put a padlock while North Cumbria University Hospitals NHS trust paid £466 to replace a light fitting and £75 for an air freshener. A trust in Salisbury paid £15,000 to “install a laundry door following feasibility study”.
    Other charges include £8,450 to install an “additional dishwasher” for a NHS trust in Hull, £962 to “supply and fix notice-board” at a trust in Leeds and £26,614 for the “replacement of shower room doors” at the Sussex Partnership Trust.
    The Coventry and Warwickshire University Hospitals NHS Trust was charged £4,459 to “supply and install a new CCTV camera” while a hospital trust in Ipswich Hospital was billed £120 to call out an engineer to reset an alarm.
    The same trust in Ipswich also was charged four separate payments of £120 on false call-outs, including one to investigate a static shock received from a door which turned out not to be the contractor’s responsibility.
    Every man, woman and child in Britain is more than £3,400 in debt – without knowing it and without borrowing a single penny – thanks to the proliferation of controversial deals used to pay for infrastructure such as schools and hospitals.
    The UK owes more than £222bn to banks and businesses as a result of Private Finance Initiatives (PFIs) – “buy now, pay later” agreements between the government and private companies on major projects. The startling figure – described by experts as a “financial disaster” – has been calculated as part of an Independent on Sunday analysis of Treasury data on more than 720 PFIs. The analysis has been verified by the National Audit Office (NAO).



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8973557/Hospitals-being-charged-extortionate-sums-by-PFI-sums-to-carry-out-basic-DIY-jobs.html



    Crippling PFI deals leave Britain £222bn in debt
    Exclusive: Treasury data analysis unearths the 'enormous financial disaster' of Private Finance Initiatives



    The headline debt is based on “unitary charges” which start this month and will continue for 35 years. They include fees for services rendered, such as maintenance and cleaning, as well as the repayment of loans underwritten by banks and investment companies.

    The system has yielded assets valued at £56.5bn. But Britain will pay more than five times that amount under the terms of the PFIs used to create them, and in some cases be left with nothing to show for it, because the PFI agreed to is effectively a leasing agreement. Some £88bn has already been spent, and even if the projected cost between now and 2049/50 does not change, the total PFI bill will be in excess of £310bn. This is more than four times the budget deficit used to justify austerity cuts to government budgets and local services.

    According to Jean Shaoul, professor emerita at Manchester Business School, PFIs have been “an enormous financial disaster in terms of cost”. She added: “Frankly, it’s very corrupt... no rational government, looking at the interests of the citizenry as a whole, would do this.”

    Unlike government funding, PFI’s cannot be adjusted to match the economy’s fortunes. They are governed by contracts that often run to thousands of pages. In contrast to the radical cuts to public spending, less than 1 per cent has been trimmed from the total cost of PFI deals since 2012.
    Danny Alexander, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, admitted last month: “Too many of the old PFI deals were poorly negotiated... with high costs draining local and national coffers.”

    Last year The Independent revealed how firms given 25-year contracts to build and maintain schools doubled their money by selling their shares in the schemes less than five years into the deals. Four – Balfour Beatty, Carillion, Interserve, and Kier – made combined profits of over £300m.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/money/loans-credit/crippling-pfi-deals-leave-britain-222bn-in-debt-10170214.html
    Well, Merv would say that wouldn’t he😁.

    House prices going up by 20% per year, for five years.
    I see no bubble?
    Agree there are always dodgy contracts, left , right and Centre.
    Voters of all parties will likely be the beneficiaries of those though.
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