Think I misplayed my aces...not sure on flop bet sizing here?

Wingman_1

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Pokerisfun	Small blind		100.00	100.00	7170.00
Fish	Big blind		200.00	300.00	16880.00
	Your hole cards	A A
skinsman10	Fold
villain	Raise		400.00	700.00	10740.00
Wingman_1	Raise		800.00	1500.00	3875.00
bateman84	Fold
Pokerisfun	Fold
Fish	Call		600.00	2100.00	16280.00
villain	Call		400.00	2500.00	10340.00
Flop
		5 K Q
Fish	Bet		200.00	2700.00	16080.00
villain	Call		200.00	2900.00	10140.00
Wingman_1	All-in		3875.00	6775.00	0.00
Fish	Fold
Villain	Fold
Wingman_1	Muck
Wingman_1	Win		3100.00		3100.00
Wingman_1	Return		3675.00	0.00	6775.00

Extra info (this is a £2 deepstack) - guy labelled fish is big stack and is calling light all the time and floating a lot of flops. He also has a history of min betting flops a lot with nothing.
I'm thinking perhaps I should have made it 3x pre-flop... post flop theres a draw to a flush and a straight so don't I need to make it expensive to give them incorrect odds to call given that I'm so short stacked? Perhaps there are better ways to have played this out?

Itsover4u

@Wingman_1

flop bet sizing is not good why min re raise? most competent players will realise how strong this can be from a rec and you will give them a great price to peel and an easy fold on all bad flops.

By making it 1.1 - 1.2 you inflate the pot and you have the chance of inducing the rejam - if he does not rejam you have position with aces.

Once you make it closer to 2.5 / 3x the optimal play on that flop is to lead for roughly 1/3 hoping for someone to jam or if you get calls then you jam all turns.

Good luck and actually a good spot to post

Wingman_1

Thanks for your comment. I can see how the bet sizing you suggest is useful in smaller pots. If I raise to 1.1 and get called then the pot would be 5.1k and I'd have 2.7k stack. So if someones flushing they have decent odds to call the turn too if I jam. I thought giving people the correct prices for their draws was bad?

If a heart does come on the turn after someones called the 1.1 are you done with the hand if you face any betting?

I can really imagine the fish floating me on the flop and betting 800 if a turn heart comes and I'd have no idea if he had it or not if he then puts me a-in on river..

goldnballz

I think itsover4u meant to say your PRE flop bet sizing is not good?

i.e making it 1.1k/1.2k preflop to call, rather than 800.

FWIW, I also quite like flat calling the initial raiser off this size stack in a spot like this.

Wingman_1

Ah yes it might have been that - hopefully Ithinkitsover can clarify.

At low stakes I limp occasionally also, I just had quite a fishy table and didn't want to be 5 handed w AA lol.

You limping that even if you think there's a good chance you'll be 3-4 handed?

Tikay10

Wingman_1 said:

Ah yes it might have been that - hopefully Ithinkitsover can clarify.

At low stakes I limp occasionally also, I just had quite a fishy table and didn't want to be 5 handed w AA lol.

You limping that even if you think there's a good chance you'll be 3-4 handed?

@Itsover4u

MattBates

Wingman_1 said:

Ah yes it might have been that - hopefully Ithinkitsover can clarify.

At low stakes I limp occasionally also, I just had quite a fishy table and didn't want to be 5 handed w AA lol.

You limping that even if you think there's a good chance you'll be 3-4 handed?

Why would you limp? What other hands would you limp with?

I am fairly sure it was 3bet sizing pre flop that Itsover is talking about.

DoyleBrun

I would 3x villain pre on the flop I would bet 40 to 50% and go with it there not always sat there with a flush or straight draw and if they hit well unlucky all your flop bet does is fold out all hands that you beat and you get called by those that beat you, were you in or near money your not desperate but your stack is getting a lot lower than the other players. Having said that I have done the flop bet huge a lot, now I try and be a little more restrained if this is incorrect I'm sure the better players than me will let me know.

Wingman_1

All the people recommending small or 1/2 pot flop bets - I'm still interested to know how you continue the hand if the heart hits the turn and they put you all in?

If I half pot with that stack size can I get away from the hand at that point? Or are you half pot betting with full intention of check-calling all the way?

waller02

One thing to be aware of is your stack to pot ratio. If you had made it 1.2k pre you would have been left with roughly a pot sized bet. With Aces. You're not folding.

kapowblamz

I think you played it well tbh, considering you only started the hand with 19bb. You played a Phil Helmuth style min 3 bet value extraction. It works well at these stakes in the right spots and think this could be one of them.

Wingman_1

waller02 said:

One thing to be aware of is your stack to pot ratio. If you had made it 1.2k pre you would have been left with roughly a pot sized bet. With Aces. You're not folding.

Do i want to make a bet pre that totally ties me to the hand (other then all-in)?

waller02

Wingman_1 said:

waller02 said:

One thing to be aware of is your stack to pot ratio. If you had made it 1.2k pre you would have been left with roughly a pot sized bet. With Aces. You're not folding.

Do i want to make a bet pre that totally ties me to the hand (other then all-in)?

You have AA. Why would you not want to be tied to the hand? With AA and 20bb the only thought crossing your mind should be how can I get the chips and get called.

Itsover4u

waller02 said:

Wingman_1 said:

waller02 said:

One thing to be aware of is your stack to pot ratio. If you had made it 1.2k pre you would have been left with roughly a pot sized bet. With Aces. You're not folding.

Do i want to make a bet pre that totally ties me to the hand (other then all-in)?

You have AA. Why would you not want to be tied to the hand? With AA and 20bb the only thought crossing your mind should be how can I get the chips and get called.

Yeah like this above 100%

And yes ment pre flop

Itsover4u

and if a heart comes on the turn.... we are still not folding you have the Ah Blocker

Wingman_1

Ok thanks guys thats really helpful - also hadnt considered the Ah blocker that definitely tips it towards taking it all the way.

@Itsover4u are you still going all the way on the turn if this scenario was the same but with a 3rd diamond on the turn or are you considering check-folding at that point?

TheEdge949

Wingman_1 said:

Ok thanks guys thats really helpful - also hadnt considered the Ah blocker that definitely tips it towards taking it all the way.

@Itsover4u are you still going all the way on the turn if this scenario was the same but with a 3rd diamond on the turn or are you considering check-folding at that point?

Dont really see how we can be check folding here to anything. You have the best starting hand and 20 bb and are a shortstack.
Tbh its simply a case of getting it in and getting a call. What happens after is outside of your control.
Its a green light all the way. although Im a terrible player.

yours in poker

Mark