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Covid 19 UK.

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  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,458
    HAYSIE said:

    tai-gar said:

    madprof said:

    I’ve had another great idea..I might even submit it to Bojo to consider in this PPE mess

    Why don’t we find and employ a captain of industry from the private sector to head up and source what we need: a non political figure, just someone to step in and sort it

    Oh, no let’s get a Tory politician peer to do it...Jeux sans frontiers but with frontiers....

    Government departments have in my experience never been good at procurement. They talk the talk but always miss the point and can't see the wood for the trees.

    PPE is a good example where we apparently rejected some gowns etc from China because they did not comply or have a certificate that they did not comply with our standards.

    The standards were mostly to do with ensuring that children could not choke themselves on the garment ties.

    This is a pandemic ffs. Can they not see the wood for the trees?
    The NHS management are useless.

    There was a recent fraud programme on BBC, where the staff get away with billions of pounds worth of stuff every year.
    They buy jars of cream for over £1300 that should cost 50p.
    The waiting times keep increasing.
    There was a Winter problem every year, which they have turned into a year round problem.
    They have had a recruitment problem, that they can never solve.
    They seem to just accept failure in so many areas, and blame lack of funding for everything.
    They have bought the wrong ventilators, and tests that don't work.
    Agreed...This problem arose when the NHS was 'privatised' ie de centralised into self sufficient trusts with more and more management levels introduced with a public sector mentality to using public funds buying from a private sector....

    BTW with ventilators readily available to purchase NOW, why did we commission 10,000 non standard spec from that tory donor Dyson, which haven't yet been approved never mind built....?? Too busy planning his move to Singapore/somewhere in Asia no doubt....another Toryterwat
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    madprof said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    I’ve had another great idea..I might even submit it to Bojo to consider in this PPE mess

    Why don’t we find and employ a captain of industry from the private sector to head up and source what we need: a non political figure, just someone to step in and sort it

    Oh, no let’s get a Tory politician peer to do it...Jeux sans frontiers but with frontiers....

    I have often thought this about the NHS.

    I am not a Richard Branson fan, but he and people like him, seem to be able to recruit teams of people that are able to organise, and efficiently run businesses.
    In the case of Branson, he seems able to do this in so many diverse areas.
    In the case of the NHS, we just seem happy to make excuses.
    As a business it is a complete disaster.
    Yet the staff have my utmost admiration for their bravery, and service.
    You could not fault the front line staff.

    Don’t get me started on that crook, Branson.....

    There is an unofficial( unauthorised) biography done on him, which he tried and failed to get an injunction to stop the publication...fascinating read

    Especially the part where, when he was in court for tax evasions in the virgin record days( and see how he could sell records so cheap?) his mother as a character witness saved him from a custodial sentence....

    Another terwat....
    Whatever you have to say about him, his staff run businesses a million times better than our Government, and their appointees.
    Whenever there are rumblings about a lack of pay rise/improved terms and conditions, he throws a (tax deductible) office party, gets everyone p issed and he gets away with selfies instead of salaries....
    And?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    I’ve had another great idea..I might even submit it to Bojo to consider in this PPE mess

    Why don’t we find and employ a captain of industry from the private sector to head up and source what we need: a non political figure, just someone to step in and sort it

    Oh, no let’s get a Tory politician peer to do it...Jeux sans frontiers but with frontiers....

    I have often thought this about the NHS.

    I am not a Richard Branson fan, but he and people like him, seem to be able to recruit teams of people that are able to organise, and efficiently run businesses.
    In the case of Branson, he seems able to do this in so many diverse areas.
    In the case of the NHS, we just seem happy to make excuses.
    As a business it is a complete disaster.
    Yet the staff have my utmost admiration for their bravery, and service.
    You could not fault the front line staff.

    I'm not a fan of the Health Minister. The man seems intent on blaming others for his own mistakes, while seeming like he is not even going to pretend he cares.

    And yet.

    Who is best placed to arrange for PPE? The Government? That would be the people who have no previous dealings with the suppliers, and zero experience of logistics.

    Why do the NHS get a free pass here? They are one of the 10 largest employers in the world. The largest healthcare provider in the world. That employs some 1.7 million people. Which will include thousands of logistic experts-even before this pandemic they were providing and arranging logistics on a massive scale. The people who have years of building up relationships as the largest single healthcare purchaser in the world.

    I used to run a small-medium firm of solicitors. As such, it was compulsory to have a detailed Business Recovery Plan (often called a Disaster Plan).

    So why does the NHS not have a detailed plan? In relation to a health pandemic. when it was always a question of if, rather than when, one would appear. This is just not acceptable.

    Why is it providing no leadership in relation to the way forward? It employs thousands of Managers, and yet (apparently) none that can actually help. I'm sure "science" (actually, it's just UK science, and ignore the "foreign" science) and Universities have a part to play. So why not the health provider?

    The Chief Executive of the NHS oversees £120 billion of annual spending. Anyone seen him? Or even knows who he is?

    The front line of the NHS deserve our applause. The Management deserve the disdain currently reserved for this Government.
    Do you think they are facing a big liability from the families of front line staff who died after being forced to work without adequate protection?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862













    Pictures of coronavirus test centres in Cardiff, Manchester and Brighton lying empty dominate the Daily Mirror's front page.
    It says the government promised 100,000 tests a day by the end of this month, but less than a fifth of that target is actually being met.
    The Daily Telegraph suggests that Matt Hancock is being lined up in government as the "fall guy" for mistakes in response to the virus.
    It says the health secretary's pledge on testing has been criticised by Downing Street sources as arbitrary and irrational.
    It quotes a Number 10 insider as saying: "He's not had a good crisis."
    Allies of Mr Hancock tell the paper they believe he's the victim of a blame game sweeping through Whitehall as ministers and advisers try to wash their hands of key decisions, with one eye on the eventual inquiry into the response to the outbreak.





    The debate about whether people should wear face masks makes the lead for the Times
    The debate about whether people should wear face masks makes the lead for the Times.
    It says NHS bosses have warned ministers that advising the public to do so would risk jeopardising critical supplies to the health service.
    Government scientists are due to examine the evidence about masks today before making a formal recommendation to ministers.
    According to the paper, the World Health Organization is understood to be ready to issue fresh guidance on wearing masks in shops, on public transport and in other crowded spaces as part of measures to exit the lockdown.
    However, the paper says there's concern that any endorsement of masks would encourage people to buy medical versions, which could send prices soaring.
    While masks aren't in short supply in hospitals, the paper goes on, there are fears that that would change if their use was recommended more widely.



    Cabinet splits over how quickly the lockdown measures should be relaxed are the subject of the Guardian's main story.
    The paper says senior ministers have been at loggerheads over whether the public health and economic impact of the lockdown will soon begin to rival the consequences of the virus itself.
    According to the Guardian, Chancellor Rishi Sunak, Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove and Trade Secretary Liz Truss are known to be among those raising concerns about the impact of a lengthy shutdown.
    But, the paper adds, other ministers appear to have taken on board the latest evidence from government scientists that any easing of restrictions could trigger an exponential rise in coronavirus cases, and have rowed back from their initial support for allowing schools and some businesses to return to normal.
    The Daily Express gives its backing to a call by MPs - led by Liberal Democrat Layla Moran - for a "coronavirus compensation scheme" for the families of NHS workers who have died of the illness.
    The paper is also calling for a national monument to be built to honour the sacrifice of what it calls "our health heroes".
    And finally, Prince Philip's message praising the NHS and other key workers for keeping the country going during the crisis, is the Sun's top story.
    It says he issued a rallying cry for the UK's coronavirus heroes.
    But, the paper adds, Prince Philip's statement was in "stark contrast" to a message by what it describes as "some bloke called Harry, from Hollywood", who instead moaned about the press and focused on his and Meghan's personal war against the media.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-52362898
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    edited April 2020









    Steve Bell’s If ... cabinet of the goats strains every sinew




  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862

    Coronavirus outbreak
    UK coronavirus live: ONS to investigate why 8,000 weekly 'excess' death toll even higher than Covid-19 figures imply
    MPs expected to approve plans for ‘virtual’ sittings of the Commons as questions continue over PPE provision
    Global Covid-19 updates - live blog
    Boy with Covid-19 did not transmit disease to more than 170 contacts
    WHO warns few people have developed coronavirus antibodies
    Support grows to cancel student nurses’ debt
    See all our coronavirus coverage




    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/apr/21/uk-coronavirus-live-parliament-returns-government-lockdown-latest-updates
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,458
    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    I’ve had another great idea..I might even submit it to Bojo to consider in this PPE mess

    Why don’t we find and employ a captain of industry from the private sector to head up and source what we need: a non political figure, just someone to step in and sort it

    Oh, no let’s get a Tory politician peer to do it...Jeux sans frontiers but with frontiers....

    I have often thought this about the NHS.

    I am not a Richard Branson fan, but he and people like him, seem to be able to recruit teams of people that are able to organise, and efficiently run businesses.
    In the case of Branson, he seems able to do this in so many diverse areas.
    In the case of the NHS, we just seem happy to make excuses.
    As a business it is a complete disaster.
    Yet the staff have my utmost admiration for their bravery, and service.
    You could not fault the front line staff.

    Don’t get me started on that crook, Branson.....

    There is an unofficial( unauthorised) biography done on him, which he tried and failed to get an injunction to stop the publication...fascinating read

    Especially the part where, when he was in court for tax evasions in the virgin record days( and see how he could sell records so cheap?) his mother as a character witness saved him from a custodial sentence....

    Another terwat....
    Whatever you have to say about him, his staff run businesses a million times better than our Government, and their appointees.
    Whenever there are rumblings about a lack of pay rise/improved terms and conditions, he throws a (tax deductible) office party, gets everyone p issed and he gets away with selfies instead of salaries....
    And?
    And he gets away with not paying them any salary increases....
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,458
    Boohooo..booohooo...

    Sir Richard also addressed the fierce criticism he has faced in recent weeks over his tax situation.
    Critics have pointed out he has paid no UK income tax since moving to the tax-free British Virgin Islands 14 years ago.
    Sir Richard is the 312th richest person in the world with an estimated $5.2bn fortune, according to the Bloomberg billionaires index.
    "I've seen lots of comments about my net worth - but that is calculated on the value of Virgin businesses around the world before this crisis, not sitting as cash in a bank account ready to withdraw," he said.
    "Over the years significant profits have never been taken out of the Virgin Group, instead they have been reinvested in building businesses that create value and opportunities."
    Turning to the question of living abroad he said: "Joan and I did not leave Britain for tax reasons but for our love of the beautiful British Virgin Islands (BVI) and in particular Necker Island, which I bought when I was 29 years old, as an uninhabited island on the edges of the BVI.
    "Over time, we built our family home here. The rest of the island is run as a business, which employs 175 people."
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,778
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    I’ve had another great idea..I might even submit it to Bojo to consider in this PPE mess

    Why don’t we find and employ a captain of industry from the private sector to head up and source what we need: a non political figure, just someone to step in and sort it

    Oh, no let’s get a Tory politician peer to do it...Jeux sans frontiers but with frontiers....

    I have often thought this about the NHS.

    I am not a Richard Branson fan, but he and people like him, seem to be able to recruit teams of people that are able to organise, and efficiently run businesses.
    In the case of Branson, he seems able to do this in so many diverse areas.
    In the case of the NHS, we just seem happy to make excuses.
    As a business it is a complete disaster.
    Yet the staff have my utmost admiration for their bravery, and service.
    You could not fault the front line staff.

    I'm not a fan of the Health Minister. The man seems intent on blaming others for his own mistakes, while seeming like he is not even going to pretend he cares.

    And yet.

    Who is best placed to arrange for PPE? The Government? That would be the people who have no previous dealings with the suppliers, and zero experience of logistics.

    Why do the NHS get a free pass here? They are one of the 10 largest employers in the world. The largest healthcare provider in the world. That employs some 1.7 million people. Which will include thousands of logistic experts-even before this pandemic they were providing and arranging logistics on a massive scale. The people who have years of building up relationships as the largest single healthcare purchaser in the world.

    I used to run a small-medium firm of solicitors. As such, it was compulsory to have a detailed Business Recovery Plan (often called a Disaster Plan).

    So why does the NHS not have a detailed plan? In relation to a health pandemic. when it was always a question of if, rather than when, one would appear. This is just not acceptable.

    Why is it providing no leadership in relation to the way forward? It employs thousands of Managers, and yet (apparently) none that can actually help. I'm sure "science" (actually, it's just UK science, and ignore the "foreign" science) and Universities have a part to play. So why not the health provider?

    The Chief Executive of the NHS oversees £120 billion of annual spending. Anyone seen him? Or even knows who he is?

    The front line of the NHS deserve our applause. The Management deserve the disdain currently reserved for this Government.
    Do you think they are facing a big liability from the families of front line staff who died after being forced to work without adequate protection?
    Too early to say.

    But probably, no. Not being forced...
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    madprof said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    I’ve had another great idea..I might even submit it to Bojo to consider in this PPE mess

    Why don’t we find and employ a captain of industry from the private sector to head up and source what we need: a non political figure, just someone to step in and sort it

    Oh, no let’s get a Tory politician peer to do it...Jeux sans frontiers but with frontiers....

    I have often thought this about the NHS.

    I am not a Richard Branson fan, but he and people like him, seem to be able to recruit teams of people that are able to organise, and efficiently run businesses.
    In the case of Branson, he seems able to do this in so many diverse areas.
    In the case of the NHS, we just seem happy to make excuses.
    As a business it is a complete disaster.
    Yet the staff have my utmost admiration for their bravery, and service.
    You could not fault the front line staff.

    Don’t get me started on that crook, Branson.....

    There is an unofficial( unauthorised) biography done on him, which he tried and failed to get an injunction to stop the publication...fascinating read

    Especially the part where, when he was in court for tax evasions in the virgin record days( and see how he could sell records so cheap?) his mother as a character witness saved him from a custodial sentence....

    Another terwat....
    Whatever you have to say about him, his staff run businesses a million times better than our Government, and their appointees.
    Whenever there are rumblings about a lack of pay rise/improved terms and conditions, he throws a (tax deductible) office party, gets everyone p issed and he gets away with selfies instead of salaries....
    And?
    And he gets away with not paying them any salary increases....
    I was not using him as an example of a pillar of British society, or as someone to look up to.
    In fact I have been consistent in my dislike for the man over the years.
    I was merely holding him up as an example of someone who runs numerous profitable businesses worldwide.
    In comparison the NHS management are incompetent.

    The NHS has a problem every Winter due to increased demand.
    Every year, they never get to grips with it.
    They can never recruit staff.
    Ok forget Richard Branson.
    Amazon also have increased demand every Winter, it is called Christmas.
    They just get on with it, they don't moan, say they cant cope, or extend delivery times.
    They also pay low wages, but still seem to be able to recruit staff.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    madprof said:

    Boohooo..booohooo...

    Sir Richard also addressed the fierce criticism he has faced in recent weeks over his tax situation.
    Critics have pointed out he has paid no UK income tax since moving to the tax-free British Virgin Islands 14 years ago.
    Sir Richard is the 312th richest person in the world with an estimated $5.2bn fortune, according to the Bloomberg billionaires index.
    "I've seen lots of comments about my net worth - but that is calculated on the value of Virgin businesses around the world before this crisis, not sitting as cash in a bank account ready to withdraw," he said.
    "Over the years significant profits have never been taken out of the Virgin Group, instead they have been reinvested in building businesses that create value and opportunities."
    Turning to the question of living abroad he said: "Joan and I did not leave Britain for tax reasons but for our love of the beautiful British Virgin Islands (BVI) and in particular Necker Island, which I bought when I was 29 years old, as an uninhabited island on the edges of the BVI.
    "Over time, we built our family home here. The rest of the island is run as a business, which employs 175 people."

    Completely different argument, and probably belongs on another thread?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Female NHS staff not ‘accessing correctly sized protective gear’
    Exclusive: ‘They tend to be designed to the size and shape of male bodies. This is in spite of the fact that 75 per cent of NHS workers are women,’ says British Medical Association spokesperson




    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    edited April 2020
    Nurse, 51, died alone in his flat while in quarantine after his calls to NHS 111 went unanswered and feared he contracted coronavirus from treating patient while not wearing PPE, his family say


    The body of chemotherapy nurse Donald Suelto, 51, was found by police at his home in London on April 7 following concerns for his welfare. He had been in isolation with suspected Covid-19 symptoms.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Editor of The Lancet accuses Number 10 of 'deliberately rewriting history in its ongoing COVID-19 disinformation campaign'




    Dr Richard Horton, editor-in-chief of The Lancet, has slammed the Government for trying to vindicate its actions while the coronavirus spiralled out of control in the UK.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862


















    The Daily Express says the start of human trials of two vaccines that might protect against coronavirus raises the hope that the UK will lead the world out of the pandemic.
    It's among several papers to lead on the development and the promise by Health Secretary Matt Hancock that the government will "throw everything" at supporting the researchers.
    The announcement is also the main front page story in the Times and the i, though the Times sounds a cautious note, reminding us of the words of the government's chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Valance, who has warned that every potential vaccine is a "long shot".
    The Daily Telegraph claims tests for coronavirus given to NHS staff have been found to be flawed, meaning thousands of doctors and nurses who thought they were free of the virus may have been sent back to work while contagious.
    It says it's seen a leaked memo from Public Health England saying the results are less reliable than was first thought.
    Public Health England says no diagnostic test is 100% sensitive, and that the tests were inconsistent in less than 2% of samples. It's now switching to commercially produced test kits and insists that was always the plan.




    The start of human trials of two vaccines that might protect against coronavirus leads many of the papers
    There's continuing criticism of efforts to obtain and distribute the vast quantities of protective equipment required by health and care workers.
    The Daily Mirror says thousands of plastic visors may be sent abroad by a firm in Nottingham because the NHS hasn't placed a large scale order.
    John Tolley, whose wife is an intensive care nurse, switched production at his company, Printers Prime Group, to making visors and has delivered 350,000 free or at cost price.
    But he says he's having to deal with individual trusts. The government says it has had more than 8,000 offers of support from suppliers of PPE and that it's speeding up efforts to respond to companies.
    Meanwhile two Tottenham footballers are in trouble for appearing to breach rules on social distancing.
    The Spurs right-back, Serge Aurier, posted videos on Instagram showing him training with Moussa Sissoko, and the two of them sitting together afterwards.
    Spurs says it will be "speaking to both players involved".
    The Daily Express says the pair have apologised and are to make a donation to the NHS.
    "You clowns" is the back page headline in the Daily Mail.
    The Guardian says the club also has questions to answer about why some of its senior employees are continuing to ignore rules on physical distancing.



    The Sun pays tribute to "a nationwide army of amateur stitchers" who are working flat out to make homemade scrubs for medics to wear as they treat patients with the virus.
    One hundred "scrub hubs" have been set up across Britain since an east London doctor asked her local WhatsApp group for volunteers.
    Between them the teams have now made almost 25,000 sets of scrubs, the paper says.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-52376621








  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Care minister Helen Whately is wheeled out for FOUR car crash interviews on NHS failings on PPE, care homes, frontline workers who have died and medic testing numbers
    Care Minister Helen Whately was grilled by Piers Morgan on GMB this morning
    Claimed the government is changing the way it collects its coronavirus data
    Said current care home data includes some people who have died in hospital




    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8244381/Piers-Morgan-hammers-Care-Minister-Helen-Whately.html
  • tai-gartai-gar Member Posts: 2,688
    Saw this on the Times Forum today and wondered how many would agree? Or not?

    Let me begin by saying I'm 72, and I have had a wonderful time on the planet. The elephant in the room is that we cannot continue in lockdown until an effective and available vaccine is to hand. It's simply not feasible. The political challenge is not when to ease lockdown but how to achieve it without the media being swamped with pictures of people dying on hospital trolleys. And that is a political, not a health imperative.

    The current policy is not principally targeted at saving lives but getting us to die in an orderly manner. Ultimately we have to be adult enough to accept that this disease is a selective killer. Other older or unwell people may disagree that their death is a risk worth taking; but remember that if we are going to die after contracting this disease, most of us in the at-risk group will have done so before there is an effective vaccine anyway.

    The price of exiting lockdown is that some people will die earlier than they would have if they had stayed indoors for 12 months then caught it in 2021, when out of sheer economic desperation we will have to rely on barely tested and unreliable vaccines. I may be one of them. But if the price of another 12 months of life in lockdown is that my grandson's life is economically blighted - and the children and grandchidren of all of us - then I have to say we should regard it as a price worth paying. Life is beautiful; but I want his and theirs to be too. Let the at-risk group choose to follow Mr Jones' strategy or not; in short, let's grow up and leave the decision to us, rather than wait for politicians who can't solve the problem anyway.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,778
    tai-gar said:

    Saw this on the Times Forum today and wondered how many would agree? Or not?

    Let me begin by saying I'm 72, and I have had a wonderful time on the planet. The elephant in the room is that we cannot continue in lockdown until an effective and available vaccine is to hand. It's simply not feasible. The political challenge is not when to ease lockdown but how to achieve it without the media being swamped with pictures of people dying on hospital trolleys. And that is a political, not a health imperative.

    The current policy is not principally targeted at saving lives but getting us to die in an orderly manner. Ultimately we have to be adult enough to accept that this disease is a selective killer. Other older or unwell people may disagree that their death is a risk worth taking; but remember that if we are going to die after contracting this disease, most of us in the at-risk group will have done so before there is an effective vaccine anyway.

    The price of exiting lockdown is that some people will die earlier than they would have if they had stayed indoors for 12 months then caught it in 2021, when out of sheer economic desperation we will have to rely on barely tested and unreliable vaccines. I may be one of them. But if the price of another 12 months of life in lockdown is that my grandson's life is economically blighted - and the children and grandchidren of all of us - then I have to say we should regard it as a price worth paying. Life is beautiful; but I want his and theirs to be too. Let the at-risk group choose to follow Mr Jones' strategy or not; in short, let's grow up and leave the decision to us, rather than wait for politicians who can't solve the problem anyway.

    This assumes that the at-risk group are capable, both mentally and educationally, to make rational decisions in this particular matter, including various predictions in relation to the future, about a largely untested disease. That is not the case for the majority.

    People need protecting. Sometimes, from themselves.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    edited April 2020
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    edited April 2020
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