DYM - Shove or Min Raise / Calling with PP

thedazzman

Hey guys,

I thought I could start this discussion. Having played many millions of hands of poker over the years, I generally play by instinct and don't totally understand or apply the correct theory/mathematical optimums in certain spots.

So with that being said. What do you think are the pros and cons of either shoving or min raising in certain spots of a tournaments, however, more specifically in DYMs in the later stages. Or calling small stacks shoves in the earlier stages with a PP?

Let me try to create hypothetical hand situations for both these scenarios;

Hand 1:

On the bubble of a DYM

Blind Level 150/300

HERO: 1800 chips [D]
Player A: 4500 chips [SB]
Player B: 1200 chips [BB]
Player C: 4500 chips

A: Posts SB 150 / new stack 4350
B: Posts BB 300 / new stack 1050
C: Folds / stack 4500
HERO cards [ATs] ??

How would you proceed in this situation? All players are of equal/average ability with zero reads. Also, the blinds increase before HEROs next BB.


Hand 2:

2nd hand of a DYM with a full table

HERO: 2000 [BB]
Player A: 800
Player B: 2000
Player C: 3230
Player 1990 [D]
Player E: 1980 [SB]

A All-in 800
B folds
C folds
D folds
E folds
HERO cards [22] ??

Again, all players of equal/average abilty and there are zero reads. Although, villain has just lost the majority of his stack in the first/previous hand of the tournament. Would you call in this situation knowing it is almost certainly a coin flip, or would you fold to conserve your stack for stealing blinds in the later stages?

Phantom66

Your examples look like easy decisions to me.

Hand1 with those stacks it's All-in from me. Should be willing to take on BB here or get free chips and especially discourage SB from coming along.

Hand 2 easy fold. You are flipping or miles behind let the 30 chips go and wait for a better spot which you should find plenty of after just 2 hands.

Cammykaze

Quick reads as the hand history burns my eyes.

Hand 1 Shove
Hand 2 Fold

IamAll_En

Shove, fold

EvilPingu

Phantom66 said:

Your examples look like easy decisions to me.

Hand1 with those stacks it's All-in from me. Should be willing to take on BB here or get free chips and especially discourage SB from coming along.

Hand 2 easy fold. You are flipping or miles behind let the 30 chips go and wait for a better spot which you should find plenty of after just 2 hands.

This.

thedazzman

Thanks guy. I appreciate the input.

I would likely play those hands as suggested.

Upon reflection, maybe my example hands were not really that 'marginal'. I am not good at expressing my thoughts into words sometimes. In future, I shall be sure to take a mental of note of some of the spots I am thinking of during play and share the hand history for some thought.

Good luck at the tables.

Cammykaze

thedazzman said:

Thanks guy. I appreciate the input.

I would likely play those hands as suggested.

Upon reflection, maybe my example hands were not really that 'marginal'. I am not good at expressing my thoughts into words sometimes. In future, I shall be sure to take a mental of note of some of the spots I am thinking of during play and share the hand history for some thought.

Good luck at the tables.

Fire in some more DYM hands and I am sure you will get a good response on the whole.

thedazzman

Cammykaze said:

thedazzman said:

Thanks guy. I appreciate the input.

I would likely play those hands as suggested.

Upon reflection, maybe my example hands were not really that 'marginal'. I am not good at expressing my thoughts into words sometimes. In future, I shall be sure to take a mental of note of some of the spots I am thinking of during play and share the hand history for some thought.

Good luck at the tables.

Fire in some more DYM hands and I am sure you will get a good response on the whole.

Thanks a lot. I shall keep that in mind. I have never really been one for discussing hand histories, however, I am eager to improve and that is certainly one way in doing so.

mcglynn07

Dazzman WIth your 1st hand of ATs you only want to play against the 900 stack of shorty but big blind is in way , not alot you can do but shove prob best. 2nd hand with 2s its still early in the game and no point in doubling up a shorty stack who took a flip. the situation says that you are in a better position to cash and outlast this guy firstly and secondly being patient and waiting for your spot is a better strategy than letting it come down to luck by turning five cards. You should not be calling big amounts of bb;s with small pp22's to 66's in early stage of game. if you do then you are kind of putting yourself at a disadvantage of swapping stacks of big risk takers early in game. DYM's are a marathon not a sprint and you just need to last.
Thanks
Danny GL GL

thedazzman

mcglynn07 said:

Dazzman WIth your 1st hand of ATs you only want to play against the 900 stack of shorty but big blind is in way , not alot you can do but shove prob best. 2nd hand with 2s its still early in the game and no point in doubling up a shorty stack who took a flip. the situation says that you are in a better position to cash and outlast this guy firstly and secondly being patient and waiting for your spot is a better strategy than letting it come down to luck by turning five cards. You should not be calling big amounts of bb;s with small pp22's to 66's in early stage of game. if you do then you are kind of putting yourself at a disadvantage of swapping stacks of big risk takers early in game. DYM's are a marathon not a sprint and you just need to last.
Thanks
Danny GL GL

Thanks for the detailed response and advice. It makes perfect sense.

gregkdy82

Both really clear decisions.

If you used a junk hand as hero's holding in example 1 and something like 99 in example 2 it would have made for a better discussion.

thedazzman

gregkdy82 said:

Both really clear decisions.

If you used a junk hand as hero's holding in example 1 and something like 99 in example 2 it would have made for a better discussion.

Yes, you are correct. After posting this question, I realised how easy these particular hands were.

I was intending to create a more marginal situation for a bit of discussion. And your examples seem to be a lot better fit.

How would you play your examples?

gregkdy82

In the first example my pushing range would depend on how I viewed the players on the blinds so is hard to say an exact range but would be pushing most hands here.

In the second example I would probably only call with Jack's or better