A Policeman's Lot is Not a Happy One...

lucy4

Within the space of a week the different situations the Police faced.Random knife attacks where they run towards the danger to protect the public,then being forced to run from the public to protect themselves.Who would seriously consider joining the force or encourage a family member to do so in today's society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yK6pdyMxS4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILHXjKuPprY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ62gtUARBI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbqiIs2wOxg

Tikay10

Utterly shameful. Why attack the police? They are just regular guys, doing their job.

bbMike

Why attack the police is a good question.

I’m sure it has a lot to do with the BLM backlash against police brutality and the criminal justice system in the US. Having watched the documentary 13th on Netflix, a lot of that backlash is completely understandable.

I’m not quite sure why this sentiment has crossed the pond, we have different challenges with institutionalised racism uncovered in the dealing of the Stephen Lawrence case, and more recent issues with stop and search statistics. One lady after the Brixton issues said whilst she didn’t condone the rioting there was a conversation to be had in this country. She said that conversation was about George Floyd. I’m not sure why we need to have a conversation in this country about the policing issues and a specific case in America.

BLM openly talk about defunding and the abolition of the police force. It’s not clear what they want to replace this with, but it didn’t seem to go very well in CHAZ the autonomous zone in Seattle where a rapper was shown handing out automatic weapons from the boot of his car, followed shortly by a spate of shootings and murders. Eye opening accounts of what went on after dark there in contrast to the PR initiative on show during the day.

You only have to take a look at the graffiti in nearby Portland, Oregon (after that was turned into something akin to a war zone with the place ablaze and police moving in and throwing tear gas to enforce order) to get the sense of feeling against the police in some areas of the US.

Back in the UK the police were attacked at the end of first BLM demonstration by the radical remnants, sending the unprepared and unprotected police running away from criminal behaviour. They were also shown bending the knee to the protestors, which does at least in my mind show subservience. They’re then criticised for not keeping law and order as property and businesses were under attack.

So then they were attacked by radicals on the other side, who don’t need a second invitation to come out for a fight with anyone who wants one or doesn’t share their colour of skin.

Now 3 nights of intervening in illegal bloc parties going on through the night (in the middle of a pandemic) and getting set upon by mobs, with one individual in Brixton brandishing what looked like a broadsword.

I’m not sure who would want to sign up for this job right now, which potentially doesn’t help the long term health of the force. But it’s times like these that we need these heroes who put themselves at risk to keep the lives and property of civilians in our country safe.

It’s certainly an interesting time.

VespaPX

Cammykaze

bbMike said:

Why attack the police is a good question.

I’m sure it has a lot to do with the BLM backlash against police brutality and the criminal justice system in the US. Having watched the documentary 13th on Netflix, a lot of that backlash is completely understandable.

I’m not quite sure why this sentiment has crossed the pond, we have different challenges with institutionalised racism uncovered in the dealing of the Stephen Lawrence case, and more recent issues with stop and search statistics. One lady after the Brixton issues said whilst she didn’t condone the rioting there was a conversation to be had in this country. She said that conversation was about George Floyd. I’m not sure why we need to have a conversation in this country about the policing issues and a specific case in America.

BLM openly talk about defunding and the abolition of the police force. It’s not clear what they want to replace this with, but it didn’t seem to go very well in CHAZ the autonomous zone in Seattle where a rapper was shown handing out automatic weapons from the boot of his car, followed shortly by a spate of shootings and murders. Eye opening accounts of what went on after dark there in contrast to the PR initiative on show during the day.

You only have to take a look at the graffiti in nearby Portland, Oregon (after that was turned into something akin to a war zone with the place ablaze and police moving in and throwing tear gas to enforce order) to get the sense of feeling against the police in some areas of the US.

Back in the UK the police were attacked at the end of first BLM demonstration by the radical remnants, sending the unprepared and unprotected police running away from criminal behaviour. They were also shown bending the knee to the protestors, which does at least in my mind show subservience. They’re then criticised for not keeping law and order as property and businesses were under attack.

So then they were attacked by radicals on the other side, who don’t need a second invitation to come out for a fight with anyone who wants one or doesn’t share their colour of skin.

Now 3 nights of intervening in illegal bloc parties going on through the night (in the middle of a pandemic) and getting set upon by mobs, with one individual in Brixton brandishing what looked like a broadsword.

I’m not sure who would want to sign up for this job right now, which potentially doesn’t help the long term health of the force. But it’s times like these that we need these heroes who put themselves at risk to keep the lives and property of civilians in our country safe.

It’s certainly an interesting time.

I find the boldened part strange as well. Police brutality is an issue in the US and has been for many years. There is generally an event involving a black citizen and the police which kicks things off again like the most recent one. Again, a shocker!

What is also shocking is that the citizen's did not appear to step in and have a word with the police during the George Floyd incident. Could not hear even a plead in the short segment I viewed.

This is not to say it's not an issue here, it may well be however it's much more of an issue in the US.

EDITED - Mark Duggan was the catalyst for the London Riots of 2011. Just came to memory now.

Cammy

Cammykaze

Just remembered, Mark Duggan's death by police is what kicked off the London Riots in 2011.

This BBC interview was interesting at the time.

https://youtu.be/biJgILxGK0o

Cammykaze

Cammykaze said:

Just remembered, Mark Duggan's death by police is what kicked off the London Riots in 2011.

This BBC interview was interesting at the time.

https://youtu.be/biJgILxGK0o

The BBC interiewer and the use of the word "condone" to box this man into a corner. He was too canny for her and rightly she was put in her place.

Cammy

hhyftrftdr

Cammykaze said:

bbMike said:

Why attack the police is a good question.

I’m sure it has a lot to do with the BLM backlash against police brutality and the criminal justice system in the US. Having watched the documentary 13th on Netflix, a lot of that backlash is completely understandable.

I’m not quite sure why this sentiment has crossed the pond, we have different challenges with institutionalised racism uncovered in the dealing of the Stephen Lawrence case, and more recent issues with stop and search statistics. One lady after the Brixton issues said whilst she didn’t condone the rioting there was a conversation to be had in this country. She said that conversation was about George Floyd. I’m not sure why we need to have a conversation in this country about the policing issues and a specific case in America.

BLM openly talk about defunding and the abolition of the police force. It’s not clear what they want to replace this with, but it didn’t seem to go very well in CHAZ the autonomous zone in Seattle where a rapper was shown handing out automatic weapons from the boot of his car, followed shortly by a spate of shootings and murders. Eye opening accounts of what went on after dark there in contrast to the PR initiative on show during the day.

You only have to take a look at the graffiti in nearby Portland, Oregon (after that was turned into something akin to a war zone with the place ablaze and police moving in and throwing tear gas to enforce order) to get the sense of feeling against the police in some areas of the US.

Back in the UK the police were attacked at the end of first BLM demonstration by the radical remnants, sending the unprepared and unprotected police running away from criminal behaviour. They were also shown bending the knee to the protestors, which does at least in my mind show subservience. They’re then criticised for not keeping law and order as property and businesses were under attack.

So then they were attacked by radicals on the other side, who don’t need a second invitation to come out for a fight with anyone who wants one or doesn’t share their colour of skin.

Now 3 nights of intervening in illegal bloc parties going on through the night (in the middle of a pandemic) and getting set upon by mobs, with one individual in Brixton brandishing what looked like a broadsword.

I’m not sure who would want to sign up for this job right now, which potentially doesn’t help the long term health of the force. But it’s times like these that we need these heroes who put themselves at risk to keep the lives and property of civilians in our country safe.

It’s certainly an interesting time.

I find the boldened part strange as well. Police brutality is an issue in the US and has been for many years. There is generally an event involving a black citizen and the police which kicks things off again like the most recent one. Again, a shocker!

What is also shocking is that the citizen's did not appear to step in and have a word with the police during the George Floyd incident. Could not hear even a plead in the short segment I viewed.

This is not to say it's not an issue here, it may well be however it's much more of an issue in the US.

EDITED - Mark Duggan was the catalyst for the London Riots of 2011. Just came to memory now.

Cammy

You need to watch it all then. Numerous people are pleading with the police to desist throughout the whole shameful video.

Cops in America often aren't exactly officers you can ''have a word'' with.
The murderer in question had no intention whatsoever to remove his knee, and anyone brave enough to intervene was probably putting their own life in danger too.

Racism is global, not just confined to America. I guess that's why it has crossed the pond.

VespaPX

Has racism been proved as the motive for Floyd's murder?

hhyftrftdr

VespaPX said:

Has racism been proved as the motive for Floyd's murder?

I don't believe so, though it would to be a tough thing to prove conclusively.

It's just one of many examples of white cops needlessly killing black suspects over in America.

Cammykaze

hhyftrftdr said:

Cammykaze said:

bbMike said:

Why attack the police is a good question.

I’m sure it has a lot to do with the BLM backlash against police brutality and the criminal justice system in the US. Having watched the documentary 13th on Netflix, a lot of that backlash is completely understandable.

I’m not quite sure why this sentiment has crossed the pond, we have different challenges with institutionalised racism uncovered in the dealing of the Stephen Lawrence case, and more recent issues with stop and search statistics. One lady after the Brixton issues said whilst she didn’t condone the rioting there was a conversation to be had in this country. She said that conversation was about George Floyd. I’m not sure why we need to have a conversation in this country about the policing issues and a specific case in America.

BLM openly talk about defunding and the abolition of the police force. It’s not clear what they want to replace this with, but it didn’t seem to go very well in CHAZ the autonomous zone in Seattle where a rapper was shown handing out automatic weapons from the boot of his car, followed shortly by a spate of shootings and murders. Eye opening accounts of what went on after dark there in contrast to the PR initiative on show during the day.

You only have to take a look at the graffiti in nearby Portland, Oregon (after that was turned into something akin to a war zone with the place ablaze and police moving in and throwing tear gas to enforce order) to get the sense of feeling against the police in some areas of the US.

Back in the UK the police were attacked at the end of first BLM demonstration by the radical remnants, sending the unprepared and unprotected police running away from criminal behaviour. They were also shown bending the knee to the protestors, which does at least in my mind show subservience. They’re then criticised for not keeping law and order as property and businesses were under attack.

So then they were attacked by radicals on the other side, who don’t need a second invitation to come out for a fight with anyone who wants one or doesn’t share their colour of skin.

Now 3 nights of intervening in illegal bloc parties going on through the night (in the middle of a pandemic) and getting set upon by mobs, with one individual in Brixton brandishing what looked like a broadsword.

I’m not sure who would want to sign up for this job right now, which potentially doesn’t help the long term health of the force. But it’s times like these that we need these heroes who put themselves at risk to keep the lives and property of civilians in our country safe.

It’s certainly an interesting time.

I find the boldened part strange as well. Police brutality is an issue in the US and has been for many years. There is generally an event involving a black citizen and the police which kicks things off again like the most recent one. Again, a shocker!

What is also shocking is that the citizen's did not appear to step in and have a word with the police during the George Floyd incident. Could not hear even a plead in the short segment I viewed.

This is not to say it's not an issue here, it may well be however it's much more of an issue in the US.

EDITED - Mark Duggan was the catalyst for the London Riots of 2011. Just came to memory now.

Cammy

You need to watch it all then.

Numerous people are pleading with the police to desist throughout the whole shameful video.

Cops in America often aren't exactly officers you can ''have a word'' with.
The murderer in question had no intention whatsoever to remove his knee, and anyone brave enough to intervene was probably putting their own life in danger too.

Racism is global, not just confined to America. I guess that's why it has crossed the pond.

Seen enough of that awful video. That's something that restores faith in humanity.

Take your point on "having a word" not having an a great impact. Would be having a big look in the mirror if I witnessed police cruelty like this while standing idly by and not at least attempting something.

Cammy

bbMike

hhyftrftdr said:

It's just one of many examples of white cops needlessly killing black suspects over in America.

It’s an incident that fits a narrative. Pulling out one example but excluding others is a distortion. For every story of a black man dying at the hands of police, you’ll be able to find equivalences involving a white man dying.

In the last 25 years the police in the US have used more deadly force against white people both in absolute terms, and in terms of their contribution to crime and violence.

A black suspect is more likely to be shot by a Black or Hispanic cop than a white one.

There are 10 million arrests made in the US in a year, and around 1,000 deaths arise from those.

Just think of all the deaths you haven’t heard about.

All of the assumptions and extrapolations need examining. Instead, without even attempting to critically assess what’s going on, these assumptions and extrapolations have been copied and pasted into the outrage on our streets. It’s not acceptable, and ‘well racism exists everywhere doesn’t it’ is sloppy at best.

hhyftrftdr

bbMike said:

hhyftrftdr said:

It's just one of many examples of white cops needlessly killing black suspects over in America.

It’s an incident that fits a narrative. Pulling out one example but excluding others is a distortion. For every story of a black man dying at the hands of police, you’ll be able to find equivalences involving a white man dying.

In the last 25 years the police in the US have used more deadly force against white people both in absolute terms, and in terms of their contribution to crime and violence.

A black suspect is more likely to be shot by a Black or Hispanic cop than a white one.

There are 10 million arrests made in the US in a year, and around 1,000 deaths arise from those.

Just think of all the deaths you haven’t heard about.

All of the assumptions and extrapolations need examining. Instead, without even attempting to critically assess what’s going on, these assumptions and extrapolations have been copied and pasted into the outrage on our streets. It’s not acceptable, and ‘well racism exists everywhere doesn’t it’ is sloppy at best.

Dying at the hands of the police is far too vague a term.

In some circumstances, the civilian in question (regardless of colour) might have left the police with little option but to take the most extreme measure. Pulling a gun or weapon out on the police for example and you're asking for trouble.

This is why I said needlessly.

Killing George Floyd because he pulled a gun out is completely different to killing unarmed George Floyd by suffocating him on a pavement.
Both fall under 'dying at the hands of the police'.

I'm sure most of us know of many cases involving black people being needlessly killed by the police in America.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of many high profile cases where white people have been needlessly killed by the police over there.

Might be something too subjective to get accurate data on but it would be interesting to see what the stats are.

The ''outrage on our streets'' extends far beyond this death in America, you know that as well as I do.

Edit just to add....the manner of his death really needs to be taken into consideration too. This wasn't a quick judgement call by an officer, this wasn't an officer pounced on and reacting with extreme force, this wasn't any kind of life or death or split second decision made under duress.

Anyone who has watched the video, be that all or just a little segment, knows just how grim it is.
This officer had his knee on the suspects neck for 9 minutes.
This officer ignored his pleas about not being able to breathe.
This officer ignored the pleas from the bystanders to release him.
This officer was in no danger whatsoever and willingly chose to murder this man on the sidewalk.

I think that's why it has resonated around the world, more so than any other 'death by cop' in recent history.

bbMike

You make the distinction of needlessly. What I said was, for every circumstance you will find an equivalence that mirrors the case but lacks the racial factor.

The fact that you don’t know the cases or that they’re not high profile, but that they exist, proves the point entirely.

I really think you need to do some reading on this. You’ll come across the case of Tony Timpa. If you like watching these snuff videos, good news for you because the police in this case keep their weight on him (albeit not on the neck), for 13 minutes. The police were white and were not convicted of anything untoward.

I don’t think anyone is claiming that there isn’t police negligence in the Floyd case, but it might not even be murder, let alone racially motivated murder.

The knee on the neck is police protocol, though should only be used in specific circumstances that don’t appear to be present in this case.

Yes, the outrage does extend beyond this case, but it’s being extrapolated from and wielded in its full force. Statements from corporations in the U.K. who are coming out to support their BAME employees whilst they raise issues through BLM include his name.

lucy4

The original purpose of this thread was to highlight the diverse situations that the Police in this country find themselves having to attend on a daily basis.But I'm happy to let the thread roll with all the opinions posted,as long as it doesn't descend in to the usual name calling,abuse,insulting comments that these threads usually turn in to.

hhyftrftdr

Mike, I'd love to debate you, but I'm worried it might give me a heart attack (get well soon @markycash) and City are about to kick off.

So for the time being I'll leave you to your notion that it might not even be murder and the copper was fine to use his knee but probably shouldn't have used his knee.

Interesting thread Lucy, I certainly don't envy the police in this or any country. In all walks of life and all organisations there will be good and bad. We just need there to be way more good than bad in organisations tasked with upholding the law, and I think our police here are generally good.

lucy4

My personal view of the American Police force is that they are institutionalised brutal whether it be towards any race,colour or creed.

bbMike

hhyftrftdr said:

So for the time being I'll leave you to your notion that it might not even be murder and the copper was fine to use his knee but probably shouldn't have used his knee.

It’s not my notion, it’s the rule of law. There are many things going on (like the role that drugs had to play in the death) that need to be discussed in court. We can’t just watch a video and claim we know 100% what’s happened and know the intent of the officer. Some worry that there is no way a fair trial can occur due to the possible societal backlash that would ensue if he is found not guilty. That’s known as mob rule.

Enjoy the game.

HAYSIE

lucy4 said:

My personal view of the American Police force is that they are institutionalised brutal whether it be towards any race,colour or creed.

This was a very good documentary.


Laquan Mcdonald: Officer jailed for shooting teen 16 times
The case has sparked street protests and fuelled race debates in the US after video showed Laquan McDonald, 17, running away.



The teen, who was carrying a small knife, can be seen collapsing in a heap after the first few shots, and bullets kept hitting his body for 10 more seconds.

He is the first Chicago officer to be found guilty of an on-duty shooting in half a century.



Lawyers on both sides agreed that if he behaves in prison the officer could be released in less than three and a half years.

Several black motorists testified that the officer had used a racial slur and excessive force during traffic stops in the years before the shooting.
Vidale Joy said Van **** used the slur after pulling him over in 2005 and put a gun to his head.
He said Van **** "looked infuriated" and seemed "out of his mind".
Another man, Ed Nance, became emotional as he looked at Van **** and told how during a 2007 traffic stop the officer swore and slammed him on the car's bonnet, grabbed him by the arm and dragged him to his police car.



https://news.sky.com/story/laquan-mcdonald-officer-jailed-for-shooting-teen-16-times-11611362


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jlrMmBScuU

chilling

lucy4 said:

Within the space of a week the different situations the Police faced.Random knife attacks where they run towards the danger to protect the public,then being forced to run from the public to protect themselves.Who would seriously consider joining the force or encourage a family member to do so in today's society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yK6pdyMxS4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILHXjKuPprY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ62gtUARBI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbqiIs2wOxg