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later stages

SHAUNYSHAUNY Member Posts: 508
edited March 2010 in Poker Chat
hi tikay been doing ok of late but just seem to lose it late on like on thur nite in bounty hunter came 10th,but just cant seem to get to that final table last year came 4th and 5th in open,but when i get lots of chips i seem to hit big hands but always lose out and go out.thurs nite got pocket jacks shoved got two calls kk and 77 and 7 hit on river i know i behind with the kk but earlier on i had qq came up against jj and lost,early on i seem to hold up but later it doesnt happen for me,i want to go to the next level as i believe i can,just believe i need a bit of help from you guys as i know i can make that next step up,can you help

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    The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,751
    edited March 2010
    Shauny, im the exact opposite as i stated to Robc in the Hold em' forum area. However what can i say about the latter stages, this is where i teand to come into my natural game so i find it hard to explain. However what i can suggest in my experiance is aggression is key. I know this does not come natural to most players and is something i have deloped myself.

    I teand to find expessially around the bubble everyone tightens up, so i loosen up, raise with hands i maybe normally wouldnt however only extremely strong starting hands will ever call. This is where you can build up a chip lead. I then get more aggressive bullying on most limped board and checked flops.

    I hope this helps.
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    DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,926
    edited March 2010

    Shauny the bad luck happens at all stages of tournys, not just the back end.

    Just because you have had some rough luck at the end of tournys, doesnt mean you struggle to play this stage of the game. 

    At the later stages, play aggressively from the button and small blind in unraised pots, avoid the rich, pick on the poor, and keep an eye on the lobby.

    gl
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    robcrobc Member Posts: 521
    edited March 2010
     you have the same problem as me mate i posted a thread last night on the strategy section take a look at dons post there might help you out. i keep messing up around the bubble or final table cant seem to push on to the win frustrating innit lol.

     To be fair though your problem seems to be more luck if your running JJ into KK and 77 late on, if blinds are high and you cant really get away if you raise and someone comes over the top id be doing the same every day pushing. the fact you ran into KK is just unlucky in my opinion

     
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    acebarry10acebarry10 Member Posts: 7,556
    edited March 2010
    Hi Shauny

    I think if you are out of position and have Jacks, or even on position, try not pushing, but raise (if the blinds are big, try a 2-3 or 4x BB raise) and see what answers you get, if you push, there is a chance, however slim for someone having another PP and probably come with you, even someone with a big Ace, if you get called, or raised should be enough to set the alarm bells ringing, if you are raised, or even called, you got to think what have they got?, could thay have a bigger PP, or big Ace possibly, see the flop, any overcards re-evaluate and play as necessary, be prepared to lay your hand down if you suspect you are behind, it is as much as the hands we win, but also the hands we lay down that win tourneys, use your knowledge of the table, who can you pick on, who do you know will fold to a raise? get em.
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    elsadogelsadog Member Posts: 5,677
    edited March 2010
    Shauny, by the sound of it you're doing not a lot wrong. It's just unfortunate that you run into those hands. More of the same will put it right I'm sure. Remember, you really can't win them all! This is tournament play and it's do or die stuff, so, more of the same and wait for it to go your way. If you over think it and change what your doing it will make you indecisive and that's fatal.
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    SHAUNYSHAUNY Member Posts: 508
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: later stages:
    Shauny, by the sound of it you're doing not a lot wrong. It's just unfortunate that you run into those hands. More of the same will put it right I'm sure. Remember, you really can't win them all! This is tournament play and it's do or die stuff, so, more of the same and wait for it to go your way. If you over think it and change what your doing it will make you indecisive and that's fatal.
    Posted by elsadog
    cheers everyone for the info il take it on board,you won it thurs didnt you elsadog,well played mate
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    elsadogelsadog Member Posts: 5,677
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: later stages:
    In Response to Re: later stages : cheers everyone for the info il take it on board,you won it thurs didnt you elsadog,well played mate
    Posted by SHAUNY
    TY .... I did and I can highly recommend A7 and A9 ........ far superior to JJ in my opinion  ;o)
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,475
    edited March 2010

    Hi Shauny,

    Short of waffling for the sake of it - & boy oh boy, I can - I cannot really add much to what two of the replies already said. The Post by Dohhhhhh, & the (first....) post by Elsadog sum up my thoughts perfectly.

    The only thing I'd add is that perseverence, tenacity, backbone, mettle, patience, are all vital in poker. You've taken a few beats late on, well you will - but you'll inflict a few too. Stick with it mate. If you are regularly getting to the late stages, you are doing nothing wrong. From there on in, it's pretty much down to correct technique - which you have - and sheer luck. 

    Hang in there bud, the big win WILL come.
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    SHAUNYSHAUNY Member Posts: 508
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: later stages:
    Hi Shauny, Short of waffling for the sake of it - & boy oh boy, I can - I cannot really add much to what two of the replies already said. The Post by Dohhhhhh, & the (first....) post by Elsadog sum up my thoughts perfectly. The only thing I'd add is that perseverence, tenacity, backbone, mettle, patience, are all vital in poker. You've taken a few beats late on, well you will - but you'll inflict a few too. Stick with it mate. If you are regularly getting to the late stages, you are doing nothing wrong. From there on in, it's pretty much down to correct technique - which you have - and sheer luck.  Hang in there bud, the big win WILL come.
    Posted by Tikay10
    thanks for that mate,when you were going through my hands the other nite in bounty,did couple of things wrong looking  back on it,at the mo im in afull time job been there 8 years now and moneys good but i so want to take this to the next step now,have you any advice for me as the one thing i seem to struggle with is bankroll management,i would say thats my downfull at the moment oh and the bad beats!!any advice would be great.when this total player is finished is that it or will there be more as im at that stage where i either take the next step up or stay where i am and thats not really what i want to do.
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    elsadogelsadog Member Posts: 5,677
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: later stages:
    Hi Shauny, Short of waffling for the sake of it - & boy oh boy, I can - I cannot really add much to what two of the replies already said. The Post by Dohhhhhh, & the (first....) post by Elsadog sum up my thoughts perfectly. The only thing I'd add is that perseverence, tenacity, backbone, mettle, patience, are all vital in poker. You've taken a few beats late on, well you will - but you'll inflict a few too. Stick with it mate. If you are regularly getting to the late stages, you are doing nothing wrong. From there on in, it's pretty much down to correct technique - which you have - and sheer luck.  Hang in there bud, the big win WILL come.
    Posted by Tikay10

    And what was wrong with the second post may I ask ........... you really don't favour the A7 A9 pincer move do you?  :o)
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,475
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: later stages:
    In Response to Re: later stages : thanks for that mate,when you were going through my hands the other nite in bounty,did couple of things wrong looking  back on it,at the mo im in afull time job been there 8 years now and moneys good but i so want to take this to the next step now,have you any advice for me as the one thing i seem to struggle with is bankroll management,i would say thats my downfull at the moment oh and the bad beats!!any advice would be great.when this total player is finished is that it or will there be more as im at that stage where i either take the next step up or stay where i am and thats not really what i want to do.
    Posted by SHAUNY
    Hi Shauny,

    I've just finished the 2 Shows, I need to drive home now, which is a 3 hour trek, & I'm off tomorrow (Sunday), so I'll answer this on Monday.
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,475
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: later stages:
    In Response to Re: later stages : thanks for that mate,when you were going through my hands the other nite in bounty,did couple of things wrong looking  back on it,at the mo im in afull time job been there 8 years now and moneys good but i so want to take this to the next step now,have you any advice for me as the one thing i seem to struggle with is bankroll management,i would say thats my downfull at the moment oh and the bad beats!!any advice would be great.when this total player is finished is that it or will there be more as im at that stage where i either take the next step up or stay where i am and thats not really what i want to do.
    Posted by SHAUNY
    Hi Shauny.

    You are a winning player, & not many can say that, but it's a very long way from being a "winning player" to doing it for a living. Your strength also appears to be in MTT's, & it's almost impossible to make a living by that route. Life is for living, & if you are young, & have no family responsibilities, or mortgage, etc, then maybe it's worth a spin, but honestly, I don't recommend it, & I've seen so many try & fail, setting out with high hope, then finding it incredibly hard, leading to depression, bankruptcy, all sorts.

    And you would have to forsake what you describe as a "well-paid" job - wow, that's some risk you are taking!

    One of my closest friends is Julian Thew, who, arguably, is one of Europe's best ever Tourney players. He gets all his entry fees paid by his sponsors, or at least, a goodly chunk of them, worth over £100,000 per year. He has won an EPT, & two GUKPT's. Nice, eh? But he still has to buy-in from his own pocket for at least half of the Events he plays, as a 6 figure sum does not go very far on the circuit. In a 9 month spell recently, he cashed for about $10,000, which did not even cover his buy-ins. He has a wife, & three young kids. Imagine tht - NO INCOME, & a wife & 3 kids. Luckily, in his case, he has paid off his mortgage already, but these barren spells are enough to send anyone busto.

    I also know a bunch of guys who play exclusively online, all the regular big-buck tourneys. Collectively, they dropped over half a mill last year......

    If you are good enough, it is easier - much easier - to play "cash" for a living. A lot of people do exactly that, but again, it's not easy, by a long chalk, but it's definitely do-able, & many do it. Few of them make much money over the long-term though. The "novelty" can wear off pretty quickly after a tough downswing, & no matter how good you are, you will experience downswings. 

    I won't ask what your bankroll is, but it needs to be pretty massive if you really want to give it a go.

    Sorry to be Mr Wet Blanket, but those are my views, based upon what I have seen. But if you do it, good luck, really, & I hope it works out.
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,475
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: later stages:
    In Response to Re: later stages : thanks for that mate,when you were going through my hands the other nite in bounty,did couple of things wrong looking  back on it,at the mo im in afull time job been there 8 years now and moneys good but i so want to take this to the next step now,have you any advice for me as the one thing i seem to struggle with is bankroll management,i would say thats my downfull at the moment oh and the bad beats!!any advice would be great.when this total player is finished is that it or will there be more as im at that stage where i either take the next step up or stay where i am and thats not really what i want to do.
    Posted by SHAUNY
    I don't know, nor, I suspect, does anyone, is the straight answer. But "possibly", yes.

    This TP was a sort of pathfinder, to see if it worked, & it needed to tick several boxes - be entertaining, educational, good for the Community (the Community is an important part of the Sky Poker Business Model), commercially viable, & be well received. It was always recognized that as nobody in poker - nobody - had ever tried this before, it would be a brave concept, as it would be impossible to get everything right about it first time round. Most players recognize this, the feedback says overwhelmingly as much, though a vocal minority seemed not to. To be expected, I guess.

    I think - though I'm just guessing - that it can be judged as a success based on the criteria listed above, & if so, I would hazard a guess thay they will do it again - but bigger, better, & with added bells & whistles, but most of all, learning from the original one, correcting things which, maybe, needed adjustment.

    Once this one is over - nearly there now, though in truth, for the winner, & the Community, the journey is just about to begin! - I suspect they will review it's success or otherwise, & make a decision based on that.    
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    SHAUNYSHAUNY Member Posts: 508
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: later stages:
    In Response to Re: later stages : I don't know, nor, I suspect, does anyone, is the straight answer. But "possibly", yes. This TP was a sort of pathfinder, to see if it worked, & it needed to tick several boxes - be entertaining, educational, good for the Community (the Community is an important part of the Sky Poker Business Model), commercially viable, & be well received. It was always recognized that as nobody in poker - nobody - had ever tried this before, it would be a brave concept, as it would be impossible to get everything right about it first time round. Most players recognize this, the feedback says overwhelmingly as much, though a vocal minority seemed not to. To be expected, I guess. I think - though I'm just guessing - that it can be judged as a success based on the criteria listed above, & if so, I would hazard a guess thay they will do it again - but bigger, better, & with added bells & whistles, but most of all, learning from the original one, correcting things which, maybe, needed adjustment. Once this one is over - nearly there now, though in truth, for the winner, & the Community, the journey is just about to begin! - I suspect they will review it's success or otherwise, & make a decision based on that.    
    Posted by Tikay10
    thanks for taking the time out to reply mate i respect everything you have said,i also have a wife and 3 little girls so it would be a massive risk.just wanted your opinion on it,il probably just carry on as i am on sky and take it from there,went to vegas last year for me stag doo and played in monte carlo and came second so im doing something right,but like you say a big risk which at the mo i cant take.and it is mostly mtt i play,anyway thankyou for that,much apprecieted   shauny
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