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The art of angling. In poker.
Tikay10
Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 159,798
Don't you loathe players who pull these sort of angles?
Comments
3 handed on a ft, chipleader, then i was 2nd in chips and 3rd guy sat out, other there was chipleader and then i was pretty much same chips as 3rd player who was also sat out.
Anytime id open into the bb of sat out guy id get 3bet, np there.So then i started folding all buttons and every orbit the chipleader would walk sat out guy and opening on all my bbs clearly doing everything they could to get hu vs sat out guy.
Fair play. You see this a lot in the regular 6 max sng when a player is sat out on bubble. Done it myself plenty and had it done to me too.
If he is 3 betting everytime you open, you can start limp/calling some hands and of course 4 bet much wider. It is a situation that you can work to your advantage.
The live example is probably an angle shoot although the floor manager who tweeted it seems to be giving Player A the benefit of the doubt.
The online example is not an angle shoot, it is taking an edge from a presented situation.
Not sure why they are walking the bb from the sb though.
It could be a spite fold (do you have personal history with the big stack) or it could be collusion, or it could just be sub-optimum play, but it definitely isn't angle shooting.
Some important info further down the Twitter thread there.
Why is the dealer counting A's bet here? It's a heads-up pot on the river and A has said $100, which is binding. As long as the winner gets the right amount at the end, it doesn't matter if A puts in $95, $100 or $105 at this point. It just speeds the game up to not count, since it's only necessary when B shows a winner. Wait until that happens, then count and ask A for the extra $5.
If the dealer is going to count A's bet, then they aren't they getting the extra $5 from A before allowing A to act again?
If B isn't angling and has genuinely said all in (I have my doubts), then dealer should reiterate that B is all in, and use the all in marker which all casinos seem to have nowadays.
Thoughts on the hand itself:
I don't know who's actually angling here from the tweet, or if they're both trying to angle each other.
The dealer hasn't indicated to A that there is an all in, which means it's possible that B has called, then opportunistically claimed a shove after showing the winner. The action of B throwing in a single chip is consistent with a call, and so is A not hearing the 'all in' and the dealer not throwing out an all in marker. When A shows first and B knows he's won, B can then try to freeroll A by claiming a shove.
A could also be angling here by intentionally putting in the wrong amount and creating a situation where they can 'call' a raise by making their bet up to $100, then show first as though B called. When B turns their cards over thinking it's showdown, A can then decide whether they actually meant to call or not.
The dealer is the only reason this was able to happen at all, regardless of who is angling.
Ruling:
The dealer didn't announce an all in and/or use the all in marker. Therefore, it's a bet and a call. A pays B $100.
EDIT: I think B angling is more likely than A angling, but both are possible. However, I don't think it affects the ruling in this spot.
Sidenote:
Allowing one-chip shoves is a terrible idea - a single chip meaning 2 different things creates confusion. Add in the fact that the dealer is less likely to hear a verbal all-in now since there's now barriers everywhere and all the players have masks on, and you're inevitably going to get an absolute clusterf*ck like this.
I tried to go all in with a single chip a couple of times live when I was less experienced (not trying to angle), and both times I got told to put at a stack of large denomination chips in, rather than a single chip. Seems like an easy and obvious rule to implement.
to difficult to say whether A is angleshooting, so difficult to rule either way especially if masks on harder to hear stuff. strange that A would push a stack then throw in a chip for what he is claiming is one bet, meh i'd rule with B in real time.
If they might be wouldnt it be better to take both BBs every orbit. The stack sizes of the 2nd and 3rd were said to be roughly equal so taking both down is probably more optimal than only bullying the 2nd stack.
Can start walking the BB when down to a few bigs to keep the dynamic going.
-1 to 2nd in chips ever being able to turn that 3 handed situation into their advantage.
+1 for starting to walk BB when he only has a few BB as this is when situation is at its worst for 2nd in chips.
If a player makes an out of character fold to assist a small stack to the detriment of a 3rd player at the table this is playing god. Players are obligated to play as hard as they can vs each opponent and id be surprised if this wasnt breaking terms and conditions.