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Trouble spot.

CraigSG1CraigSG1 Member Posts: 1,582
edited February 21 in Poker Chat
Hi all. Im going to try and up my game so will be posting some trouble spots I have.

Villian is new to table and has posted a BB. I have no history. 5p/10p

Im button with KcKh and raise 4x. Both blinds fold and villain calls.

Flop: JdJh6c He checks I check. pot £0.95p

Turn: 3c He leads out pot. I call. pot £2.85

River: Ad He quickly pots. I fold.

My thinking: He is unknown and has a wide range. On that flop im way ahead or miles behind. I don't feel like betting gets calls by much im beating and I want him to catch up a little or pot control. His pot bet on a blank I think is an easy call. Im under repped and again either way ahead/behind. I cant fold and what calls a raise? He then quickly pots river and I don't have a lot of time to try and think.

I find most times I call here they have a Jack or caught the A on the river. I don't find many bluffs here personally although I feel this looks very bluffy so im confused. Quick bets to me mean he has already decided what he is doing but im confused by the pot turn bet. If he had a Jack why so big?

Question is would I have called on a blank river? I think I would have, the A just hits more of his turn bluffs or value bet (A6 for example).



  • NitrogenNitrogen Member Posts: 66
    edited February 21
    An unknown at 5p/10p I'm going to say his range for calling in the bb is about this could be wider or tighter and maybe some 3bet bluff or he may be one of those who doesn't 3bet at all.

    As you say you are smashing this on the flop, so bet a big percent of the time. It is true you are wa/wb but you are getting called by most of the pairs and there's no problem winning it here. If you get check raised it's a big clue he has a jack as there are no draws.

    You said you checked to induce action on the turn and then got it but when he leads the turn his betting range is so heavily weighted towards a jack that it's a nasty spot. If you have more info on him that would change, but a turn lead on static board like this is rarely air and the only other made hands he has contain sixes and a few underpairs.

    You can't fold but calling caps your range in way that is going to create even more problems whatever the river is. By losing the betting lead on the flop you've created an awkward spot. You can reraise here - but at these stakes I don't like it much.

    The A on the river doesn't affect him if he has a jack so the instabet makes sense - if he's bluffing then instabetting the Ace is less likely as it hits your range harder.

    You are beating air and aggressively played 99, 88, 77, 55 and that's it, he has so many combos of jacks that it's a fold I think.

    If the river is a 2 then you have to call if you dont want to get run over or you have no calls at all that don't include jacks (and you are not checking flop and calling turn with many of jack combos so you are at risk of folding your entire range) so KK is your next best hand (after AA).

    I think you are asking all the right questions but getting stuck in wa/wb can often lead to this kind of thing, there is plenty you are way ahead of that is calling a flop bet.

    In short bet the flop, keep the lead.

  • mcglynn07mcglynn07 Member Posts: 153
    If it feels bluffy to you then it probably is. The fact that he leads for pot T&R is no real indication of value hunting to me and it fells like he wants you off the pot and he also wants you to think that he has a jack, JJ or an ace or 66 or 33 Firstly think how likely if you had these hands yourself would you take the route to extract chips from your opponent. Probably never unless you had a specific reason to do so like you could see your opponent cards and he had qq on T&R.
    I don't like the check on the flop here if I had a Jack or JJ (like AJ KJ QJ) then I think we could safely check flop but you don't and could easily get small value from 22-55, 77-QQ, any 6 and , KQ and most aces I would imagine and you start to build the pot. You also keep the lead which is mega important and you keep villain guessing rather than letting him turn the tables on you and putting you in the cage. Betting the flop also helps you to narrow his range for the future streets and give you a better indication of what you are up against whether it be a J or other pair or aces or air. If he has 66 then this hand may be the cooler but the ace may save you on the river.
    If he has a jack then I can see him checking this to induce from you. IF he does not have a jack does he see your check as you are concerned about a jack? What if he had aces would he lead the flop or would he check? Would he pot aces on the turn vs a jack, makes not much sense.
    Brings the 3c giving potential FD, so if you just hit FH with pocket 33s how often are you betting pot? I hope not allot because you want to get value from all the pairs, the FD's and the curious Ace-His we mention above. So when you call here what is your plan for the river. Dodge what? Aces, clubs, and what other cards? It is hard to know because when we keep calling it looks like we have the under pair like TT-77 and are scared of the jack, he has the lead and he keeps piling it on us.
    If he has a jack on the turn and bets pot he wants you to have the pairs or the FD so would you call in this instance? It kind of depends on what you want your opponent to think of your bet size pre-flop and what hands that includes in your range that wants to check a very dry flop. This to me seems like he wants to start repping the jack as the pot size bet does not indicate the J being in his hands. If he had quads would he pot it most likely not. Would you call with a FD on T as you are not getting the correct odds? Would you call with your under pairs or QQ. Most likely higher end of pairs would call as you have the odds against his range.
    Is the worst card in the deck for you but not for your range. AKclubs-A2 clubs could all call T. Is he scared of those apparently not. He could have these hands as well tho but does he? Most of your jacks would call this river with trips as the FD misses so what is he targeting here from you? All the hands that cant bet the flop apparently.
    I don't think he has a jack personally but he could more likely have an ace that spiked the river but ask yourself say you are bluffing and ace comes on river would you not be scared of a jack. I would be as you called the pot bet on the T.
    I just think you have made this hand more difficult by not betting the flop , build the pot keep the lead and the initiative and you will make the hand allot easier to play, as you will narrow his range and not have so many difficult questions come the river. Also keep asking these question in your play in the moment. The more you do the easier the hand will become easier to play. What's his range and what is mine?
    Best of luck Danny
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,828
    edited February 22
    Hey craig a great way to up your game on micro stakes is cbet 33% pot with 100% of your range IP on most flops, the only exception is a flop like JT9.
    Even a hand like 22 on K93 should get cbet on flop, lack of 3betting and lack of X/R means opponents have got loads of air and most that air is gonna get folded on flop because they cannot bluff.

    Something tells me this person should have a really wide range, I cannot give him a range but I assume it will be similar to BB defending range.
    This is how that range should defend against 1/3 cbet on flop.
    red fold, green call blue raise

    Our KK should be getting checked most times on this flop but what you will notice is BB should be X/R and X/C combos like 98 87 Q7 54 most Ax KQ QT, they also should X/R some 6x. Do you really think people will defend like this?

    I'd give him a defending range like this

    Having done this as the new defending range we ourselves can now cbet 100% of our range.

    If you gonna check flop, check OOP where your overall range is strong making it easy to X/C wide and lose minimum value with weak hands.
    When you are IP cbet 100% of your range 33% on most boards because you are gonna be up against limpers or the BB most days and these should have wide ranges with lots of air and do not know how to defend it correctly or bluff the air.

    This hand itself I would cbet 33% on flop, when turn card brings an A I would check and then fold on river.
    The flop allows me to realize my equity, when I see the A come on turn I do not see much worse calling a bet and I do not want to allow JJ more value, then on river if I face a bet I will fold knowing most of his air should have now improved as it's likelt to be Ax and I do not expect him to turn weak pairs into a bluff.

    When you decide to check flop you do put yourself in really bad shape IP allow oppoent to realize his equity he will assume you weak so might bluff but at the same time he is not an opponent we expect to bluff much but will value bet most strength making our call really hard.
  • CraigSG1CraigSG1 Member Posts: 1,582
    Why is this closed?
  • CraigSG1CraigSG1 Member Posts: 1,582
    If I C bet 100% of my range do I not need to play very tight? And then that makes me very exploitable either way.
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 107,008
    CraigSG1 said:

    Why is this closed?

    Hi @CraigSG1

    It's not closed as such, I simply moved it to Poker Chat so it would get more interaction.
  • CraigSG1CraigSG1 Member Posts: 1,582
    Ah. Thanks.
  • NitrogenNitrogen Member Posts: 66
    CraigSG1 said:

    If I C bet 100% of my range do I not need to play very tight? And then that makes me very exploitable either way.

    About 70-80% is probably optimal but as @craigcu12 says it's not going to be a horrible leak making it nearer 100% at micro stakes. If you structure things so you aren't playing too much out of position and with decent opening ranges it's worse to under cbet than over do it. Easiest players to play against are those who only bet when they hit.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,828
    CraigSG1 said:

    If I C bet 100% of my range do I not need to play very tight? And then that makes me very exploitable either way.

    Cbetting 100% of your range on most boards IP does not mean you need to play tight.
    Your CO opening range should be 37%
    Your BTN opening range should be 45-51%

    This type of stuff can be easily exploited for sure but I high doubt the people at micro stakes will be able to do this why?

    The reason I doubt micro stakes will do this is because the way this get's exploited is by check raising TP good kicker combos, weak pair with backdoor flush and total air that has missed flop but can make a straight draw and flush draw on turn.

    You could say to me why not just x/C more widely, all this does is create a really wide range on turn with plenty of air allowing you to fire a cbet to take it down then.

    the only boards to avoid cbetting your entire range are boards like JT9 T98 987 and it's because these boards are ones which hit the BB range really well meaning he does not need to defend total air. low boards like 345 are still fine because he lacks nutted hands and does not have as many 2x or 6x in his range therefore he is still required to defend with combos like KQ and X/R his single card gutshots.

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