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Paying The Price?

HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
Furious Tories, including two former leaders, warn Boris Johnson that smashing his manifesto promise by hiking NI by hundreds of pounds a year to fund social care will drive away voters and be a 'defining moment' for him



As he prepares to push the plans through a restive Cabinet this morning, before giving the details to the Commons and holding a press conference, Boris Johnson insisted he 'will not duck the tough decisions'. He will try to quell anger by saying that over the next few years some of the money raised will go on getting the NHS back on its feet following the pandemic. But Conservative former leaders Lord Hague Iain Duncan Smith have both joined a welter a criticism, saying that the public will not forget the 'defining moment' of the 2019 manifesto being effectively torn up. Mr Duncan Smith said the policy, key details of which are still unclear, looked like a 'sham' that will not fix the problems with social care. Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi squirmed as he was challenged on the proposals in a round of interviews this morning, admitting he is not 'comfortable' with the idea of flouting manifesto commitments.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9964819/Furious-Tories-warn-PM-manifesto-busting-NI-hike-social-care.html
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,064
    HAYSIE said:

    Furious Tories, including two former leaders, warn Boris Johnson that smashing his manifesto promise by hiking NI by hundreds of pounds a year to fund social care will drive away voters and be a 'defining moment' for him



    As he prepares to push the plans through a restive Cabinet this morning, before giving the details to the Commons and holding a press conference, Boris Johnson insisted he 'will not duck the tough decisions'. He will try to quell anger by saying that over the next few years some of the money raised will go on getting the NHS back on its feet following the pandemic. But Conservative former leaders Lord Hague Iain Duncan Smith have both joined a welter a criticism, saying that the public will not forget the 'defining moment' of the 2019 manifesto being effectively torn up. Mr Duncan Smith said the policy, key details of which are still unclear, looked like a 'sham' that will not fix the problems with social care. Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi squirmed as he was challenged on the proposals in a round of interviews this morning, admitting he is not 'comfortable' with the idea of flouting manifesto commitments.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9964819/Furious-Tories-warn-PM-manifesto-busting-NI-hike-social-care.html

    This has been a key issue for at least 25 years.

    The simple fact is that there is a massive crisis in relation to chronic underfunding in relation to Care Home provision. Successive Governments (of both main Parties) have failed to grasp this. It is becoming increasingly urgent.

    There was a massive baby boom from the late 1940s to the early 1960s. This is, in turn, causing a massive increase in the need for dementia care etc year on year. The numbers are scary.

    Various Tories seem to be saying that it is unacceptable to tax the rich or the comfortably off. So who does pay? They can't keep increasing stealth taxes on the poor.

    All well and good to talk about manifesto pledges. But something needs to be done. Now.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Furious Tories, including two former leaders, warn Boris Johnson that smashing his manifesto promise by hiking NI by hundreds of pounds a year to fund social care will drive away voters and be a 'defining moment' for him



    As he prepares to push the plans through a restive Cabinet this morning, before giving the details to the Commons and holding a press conference, Boris Johnson insisted he 'will not duck the tough decisions'. He will try to quell anger by saying that over the next few years some of the money raised will go on getting the NHS back on its feet following the pandemic. But Conservative former leaders Lord Hague Iain Duncan Smith have both joined a welter a criticism, saying that the public will not forget the 'defining moment' of the 2019 manifesto being effectively torn up. Mr Duncan Smith said the policy, key details of which are still unclear, looked like a 'sham' that will not fix the problems with social care. Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi squirmed as he was challenged on the proposals in a round of interviews this morning, admitting he is not 'comfortable' with the idea of flouting manifesto commitments.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9964819/Furious-Tories-warn-PM-manifesto-busting-NI-hike-social-care.html

    This has been a key issue for at least 25 years.

    The simple fact is that there is a massive crisis in relation to chronic underfunding in relation to Care Home provision. Successive Governments (of both main Parties) have failed to grasp this. It is becoming increasingly urgent.

    There was a massive baby boom from the late 1940s to the early 1960s. This is, in turn, causing a massive increase in the need for dementia care etc year on year. The numbers are scary.

    Various Tories seem to be saying that it is unacceptable to tax the rich or the comfortably off. So who does pay? They can't keep increasing stealth taxes on the poor.

    All well and good to talk about manifesto pledges. But something needs to be done. Now.
    When he was elected he said he had a plan that was ready to go.
    Obviously another lie.
    Making manifesto pledges to get elected, and then breaking them, is a serious matter.
    I do accept that this is long overdue, and has to be paid for.
    The worrying thing is that this is probably just the start.
    The NHS will need more funding to catch up, covid borrowings will have to be repaid, then there is the tower blocks, etc etc.
    As I am nearly a pensioner the news that an NI charge may be introduced, and the triple lock is going, is disturbing, particularly if it is a starting point.
    Amazon are now nicking care home staff as they are paying 30% higher wages, and dont require staff to be vaccinated.
    Whoever thought Amazon could end up as the good guys.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    Boris admits he can't rule out MORE hikes after imposing highest ever tax burden in peacetime UK: PM puts on show of unity with Sunak and Javid over £12billion NI raid to cap social care costs at £86k - but will NHS just swallow the cash?

    https://video.dailymail.co.uk/preview/mol/2021/09/07/5711988001634956786/964x580_MP4_5711988001634956786.mp4

    Boris Johnson tonight defended mounting a £12billion national insurance raid to fund a social care revolution - but admitted he cannot completely rule out more hikes. In a bold package that could make or break his premiership, Mr Johnson is pushing up NI rates by 1.25 percentage points from April. A typical higher earner will be paying more than £700 extra. Finally revealing his vision for social care in England, he said reform can no longer be 'ducked' and the elderly should not lose their life savings and homes due to the 'bolt from the blue' of dementia. At a press conference alongside the Chancellor and Health Secretary, Mr Johnson argued that one in seven people now faced care costs of more than £100,000 and wider society needs to 'share the risk'. 'Everyone knows in their bones... we can't now shirk the challenge of putting the NHS back on its feet,' he said.



    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9965651/Boris-gambles-HUGE-social-care-revolution-funded-12bn-tax-raid.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    How much more will you have to pay in National Insurance? When will it kick in? And how much will the elderly have to pay for their care costs? All your questions answered



    Boris Johnson today announced manifesto-busting tax rises to pay for a major overhaul of the nation's social care system and to boost the NHS. The Prime Minister will hike National Insurance contributions by 1.25 per cent, leaving basic rate taxpayers approximately £180 a year worse off. A tax on dividends will also go up by 1.25 per cent in moves which will generate an extra £12billion a year for the Treasury. A social care shake-up will see a cap on costs set at £86,000 - the maximum anyone will ever have to pay.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9965479/Everything-need-know-Boris-Johnsons-social-care-shake-up.html
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,064
    I appreciate you don't like Boris. Can't say I'm too fond of the man.

    What would you have him do? Not attempt to deal with the care crisis? When he would be attacked for doing nothing.

    Or be honest about the problems. When everybody attacks him for prioritising real economic imperatives over manifesto pledges.

    One of the few times he is putting the country over self-interest. Seems ironic that he gets away with lying, and gets lambasted for actually telling the truth for once.

    Nice to see he remains your pantomime villain. Personally, I think he is thinking ahead. Looks like a good topic to leave on, so he can follow all the other ex-PMs with their snouts in the trough...
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    Essexphil said:

    I appreciate you don't like Boris. Can't say I'm too fond of the man.

    What would you have him do? Not attempt to deal with the care crisis? When he would be attacked for doing nothing.

    Or be honest about the problems. When everybody attacks him for prioritising real economic imperatives over manifesto pledges.

    One of the few times he is putting the country over self-interest. Seems ironic that he gets away with lying, and gets lambasted for actually telling the truth for once.

    Nice to see he remains your pantomime villain. Personally, I think he is thinking ahead. Looks like a good topic to leave on, so he can follow all the other ex-PMs with their snouts in the trough...

    As I said in my previous post, I realise that this is long overdue, and that it has to be paid for.
    This would have to happen, whoever was PM.
    I just wish it wasnt him.
    I am more concerned about what happens next, regarding tax increases.
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,064
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    I appreciate you don't like Boris. Can't say I'm too fond of the man.

    What would you have him do? Not attempt to deal with the care crisis? When he would be attacked for doing nothing.

    Or be honest about the problems. When everybody attacks him for prioritising real economic imperatives over manifesto pledges.

    One of the few times he is putting the country over self-interest. Seems ironic that he gets away with lying, and gets lambasted for actually telling the truth for once.

    Nice to see he remains your pantomime villain. Personally, I think he is thinking ahead. Looks like a good topic to leave on, so he can follow all the other ex-PMs with their snouts in the trough...

    As I said in my previous post, I realise that this is long overdue, and that it has to be paid for.
    This would have to happen, whoever was PM.
    I just wish it wasnt him.
    I am more concerned about what happens next, regarding tax increases.
    Fair point. Boris, for all his many faults, at least is trying to do something-unlike every PM since at least Major.

    The main trouble is that the press/politicians and most of the public believe either:-

    1. There is a magic money tree; or
    2. Somebody other than them should be paying

    Whereas life is not like that.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    I appreciate you don't like Boris. Can't say I'm too fond of the man.

    What would you have him do? Not attempt to deal with the care crisis? When he would be attacked for doing nothing.

    Or be honest about the problems. When everybody attacks him for prioritising real economic imperatives over manifesto pledges.

    One of the few times he is putting the country over self-interest. Seems ironic that he gets away with lying, and gets lambasted for actually telling the truth for once.

    Nice to see he remains your pantomime villain. Personally, I think he is thinking ahead. Looks like a good topic to leave on, so he can follow all the other ex-PMs with their snouts in the trough...

    As I said in my previous post, I realise that this is long overdue, and that it has to be paid for.
    This would have to happen, whoever was PM.
    I just wish it wasnt him.
    I am more concerned about what happens next, regarding tax increases.
    Fair point. Boris, for all his many faults, at least is trying to do something-unlike every PM since at least Major.

    The main trouble is that the press/politicians and most of the public believe either:-

    1. There is a magic money tree; or
    2. Somebody other than them should be paying

    Whereas life is not like that.
    The most determined opposition seems to be in his own party.
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,064
    edited September 2021
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    I appreciate you don't like Boris. Can't say I'm too fond of the man.

    What would you have him do? Not attempt to deal with the care crisis? When he would be attacked for doing nothing.

    Or be honest about the problems. When everybody attacks him for prioritising real economic imperatives over manifesto pledges.

    One of the few times he is putting the country over self-interest. Seems ironic that he gets away with lying, and gets lambasted for actually telling the truth for once.

    Nice to see he remains your pantomime villain. Personally, I think he is thinking ahead. Looks like a good topic to leave on, so he can follow all the other ex-PMs with their snouts in the trough...

    As I said in my previous post, I realise that this is long overdue, and that it has to be paid for.
    This would have to happen, whoever was PM.
    I just wish it wasnt him.
    I am more concerned about what happens next, regarding tax increases.
    Fair point. Boris, for all his many faults, at least is trying to do something-unlike every PM since at least Major.

    The main trouble is that the press/politicians and most of the public believe either:-

    1. There is a magic money tree; or
    2. Somebody other than them should be paying

    Whereas life is not like that.
    The most determined opposition seems to be in his own party.
    Definitely.

    Will hit Conservative voters the most, and cost Tory votes.

    Still the right thing to do. That is the way Boris will be remembered as PM-a strange mixture of liar, buffoon, and yet willing on occasion to transcend politics to do what is right.

    The sad part is that it will be the last of those qualities that brings about his downfall.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    I appreciate you don't like Boris. Can't say I'm too fond of the man.

    What would you have him do? Not attempt to deal with the care crisis? When he would be attacked for doing nothing.

    Or be honest about the problems. When everybody attacks him for prioritising real economic imperatives over manifesto pledges.

    One of the few times he is putting the country over self-interest. Seems ironic that he gets away with lying, and gets lambasted for actually telling the truth for once.

    Nice to see he remains your pantomime villain. Personally, I think he is thinking ahead. Looks like a good topic to leave on, so he can follow all the other ex-PMs with their snouts in the trough...

    As I said in my previous post, I realise that this is long overdue, and that it has to be paid for.
    This would have to happen, whoever was PM.
    I just wish it wasnt him.
    I am more concerned about what happens next, regarding tax increases.
    Fair point. Boris, for all his many faults, at least is trying to do something-unlike every PM since at least Major.

    The main trouble is that the press/politicians and most of the public believe either:-

    1. There is a magic money tree; or
    2. Somebody other than them should be paying

    Whereas life is not like that.
    The most determined opposition seems to be in his own party.
    Definitely.

    Will hit Conservative voters the most, and cost Tory votes.

    Still the right thing to do. That is the way Boris will be remembered as PM-a strange mixture of liar, buffoon, and yet willing on occasion to transcend politics to do what is right.

    The sad part is that it will be the last of those qualities that brings about his downfall.
    There is a dispute going on, as to what exactly todays measures will actually do for the social care problem.
  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,064
    Every single time the NHS are offered more money, the mantra is always "it's not enough."

    It probably isn't. But it's a start. The NHS think they have their own magic money tree.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    Essexphil said:

    Every single time the NHS are offered more money, the mantra is always "it's not enough."

    It probably isn't. But it's a start. The NHS think they have their own magic money tree.

    Apparently for the next 3 years, 85% of the money is bound for the NHS, and a mere 15% is destined to fund social care.
    At the end of 3 years they will not guarantee that this will change.
    Jeremy Hunt expressed a view that it is difficult to temporarily fund the NHS, without it becoming baked in.
    A tax increase would have been fairer.
    86k is a large percentage of the value of the average house, and a relatively small percentage of a million pound house.
    I naively thought this was a social care plan.
    Similar to the one he had ready when he was elected PM.
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    I appreciate you don't like Boris. Can't say I'm too fond of the man.

    What would you have him do? Not attempt to deal with the care crisis? When he would be attacked for doing nothing.

    Or be honest about the problems. When everybody attacks him for prioritising real economic imperatives over manifesto pledges.

    One of the few times he is putting the country over self-interest. Seems ironic that he gets away with lying, and gets lambasted for actually telling the truth for once.

    Nice to see he remains your pantomime villain. Personally, I think he is thinking ahead. Looks like a good topic to leave on, so he can follow all the other ex-PMs with their snouts in the trough...

    As I said in my previous post, I realise that this is long overdue, and that it has to be paid for.
    This would have to happen, whoever was PM.
    I just wish it wasnt him.
    I am more concerned about what happens next, regarding tax increases.
    Fair point. Boris, for all his many faults, at least is trying to do something-unlike every PM since at least Major.

    The main trouble is that the press/politicians and most of the public believe either:-

    1. There is a magic money tree; or
    2. Somebody other than them should be paying

    Whereas life is not like that.
    The most determined opposition seems to be in his own party.
    Definitely.

    Will hit Conservative voters the most, and cost Tory votes.

    Still the right thing to do. That is the way Boris will be remembered as PM-a strange mixture of liar, buffoon, and yet willing on occasion to transcend politics to do what is right.

    The sad part is that it will be the last of those qualities that brings about his downfall.
    Boris Johnson has created a ‘social care plan’ without any plan for social care


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/boris-johnson-has-created-a-social-care-plan-without-any-plan-for-social-care/ar-AAObYPK?ocid=msedgntp
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    Essexphil said:

    I appreciate you don't like Boris. Can't say I'm too fond of the man.

    What would you have him do? Not attempt to deal with the care crisis? When he would be attacked for doing nothing.

    Or be honest about the problems. When everybody attacks him for prioritising real economic imperatives over manifesto pledges.

    One of the few times he is putting the country over self-interest. Seems ironic that he gets away with lying, and gets lambasted for actually telling the truth for once.

    Nice to see he remains your pantomime villain. Personally, I think he is thinking ahead. Looks like a good topic to leave on, so he can follow all the other ex-PMs with their snouts in the trough...

    'No, no, no!' Boris shuts down Beth Rigby as she claims social care 'cover up' for failure
    BORIS JOHNSON adamantly rejected claims from Sky News political editor Beth Rigby suggesting his Government's plans for social care in the UK are a "cover-up" for failures of his Government
    .


    Boris Johnson hit back at Beth Rigby's claims after she questioned the popularity of him and his party after increasing National Insurance to bolster social care. She asked: "Prime Minister, you said in the Commons today that you don't break manifesto commitments lightly, you told that to your MPs. But it's not the first time you've promised things to voters and broken them.

    "I'm thinking about no checks in the Irish Sea between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    "You promised no cuts to the foreign aid budget, you promised to keep the pension triple-lock, you promised no tax rises.

    "Breaking promises appears to be part and parcel in how you conduct business in your government.


    "When you were making this decision, was there not part of you that worried about it and thought that at some point voters will lose faith in you and you will lose credibility not just for yourself but for the Conservative party as well?"

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1487694/Boris-Johnson-news-Beth-Rigby-social-care-reform-national-insurance-covid-latest-VN
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    Essexphil said:

    I appreciate you don't like Boris. Can't say I'm too fond of the man.

    What would you have him do? Not attempt to deal with the care crisis? When he would be attacked for doing nothing.

    Or be honest about the problems. When everybody attacks him for prioritising real economic imperatives over manifesto pledges.

    One of the few times he is putting the country over self-interest. Seems ironic that he gets away with lying, and gets lambasted for actually telling the truth for once.

    Nice to see he remains your pantomime villain. Personally, I think he is thinking ahead. Looks like a good topic to leave on, so he can follow all the other ex-PMs with their snouts in the trough...

    The new rules dont come into effect until 2023.
    So those currently in care, and those that go into care between now and then, may be forced to sell their houses to pay for their care.
    Why wait for so long?
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    Essexphil said:

    I appreciate you don't like Boris. Can't say I'm too fond of the man.

    What would you have him do? Not attempt to deal with the care crisis? When he would be attacked for doing nothing.

    Or be honest about the problems. When everybody attacks him for prioritising real economic imperatives over manifesto pledges.

    One of the few times he is putting the country over self-interest. Seems ironic that he gets away with lying, and gets lambasted for actually telling the truth for once.

    Nice to see he remains your pantomime villain. Personally, I think he is thinking ahead. Looks like a good topic to leave on, so he can follow all the other ex-PMs with their snouts in the trough...




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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
    We need even MORE cash, NHS bosses tell Boris: Chiefs say they need at least another £3.5BILLION a year on top of £10bn a year from NI raid - amid fears bloated health service will soak up extra money 'ring-fenced' for social care




    NHS bosses were given a £30bn handout yesterday as Boris Johnson clobbered Britons with their highest tax burden since the War - and immediately told the PM: 'It's not enough.' The Health Service will receive the vast majority of the £36billion raised by yesterday's national insurance hike over the next three years, with social care receiving a £5.3billion slice. But health bosses said the settlement leaves a 'significant shortfall' and warned that millions of patients will still face long delays. The NHS Confederation and NHS Providers, which represent hospitals and health organisations, claimed it would still leave a funding gap of around £3.5billion a year for frontline services in England. They had wanted £10billion a year just to clear the patient backlog and additional costs arising from the pandemic. They also warned that hospitals would be forced into 'impossible choices' about which patients will receive treatment. Ministers had vowed that the billions of pounds in extra NHS funding would clear the Covid backlog by 2025. But tax experts warned pouring the money into the bottomless pit of the NHS was likely to just lead to more demands for money in the future. John O'Connell, chief executive of the TaxPayers' Alliance, said yesterday's news was just 'laying the groundwork for more demands for cash'. Sarah Coles, personal finance analyst at Hargreaves Lansdown, said: 'This announcement clobbers workers and investors, and is unlikely to be the end of the bad news. 'We don't yet know what it has up its sleeve, but we do know the tax environment for savers and investors is unlikely to get more generous in the near future.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9967481/We-need-cash-NHS-bosses-tell-Boris.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341

    You promised me two stories - are you going to break that one too, dad?'
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,341
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