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Premier League Postponements

EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
This post is not meant to have a pop at Arsenal.

I read what @lucy4 said about Liverpool postponing their Carabao Cup 1st Leg on frankly ludicrous grounds. On that occasion, Arsenal were definitely hard done by.

But let us look for 1 moment at why tomorrow's game v Spurs has been cancelled.

"The decision is a result of a combination of Covid-19, existing and recent injuries and players on international duty at the Africa Cup of Nations," said the Premier League.

Really? Let's look at the things we know.

Number of 1st team squad known to have Covid? 0. Suspected? 1-Odegaard
Existing/recent injuries? I know of 3-Soares, Saka and Chambers. That would be 1 starter (Saka)
Players on International duty? 4 (Partery, Elneny, Aubameyang, Pepe). Something that Arsenal have known for months.
Player suspended? 1. Xhaka.

How many full-time players in the Arsenal squad? 25 (the minimum allowed). Look on Wikipedia-1 of them (Okonkwo, a GK) is not even in blue. So Wikipedia does not know he is.

So why only 25? Because last week Arsenal loaned out Balogun to Middlesbrough. And this week loaned Maitland-Niles to Roma.

Could have done it any time in January. Chose to do it so they could call a game off.

It is not just Arsenal. 21st game postponed this season in the Premier League.

To quote the Labour politician Gary Neville

"Game off. What started out as postponements due to a pandemic has now become about clubs not having their best team . The Premier League must stop this now , draw a line in the sand and say all games go ahead unless you have an exceptional amount of CV cases . It’s wrong."

Comments

  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,939
    I totally agree with you,it's got to a ludicrous situation (which the P.L. & F.A. have slowly walked in to). Once clubs knew they could manipulate the situation to their advantage there was no way that clubs wouldn't work it for their own benefit. As for the NLD being cancelled tomorrow,I'm happy that we've finally played the same game as others have been playing this season. We would've been seriously depleted in midfield and not to mention knackered after the midweek 10 man excursions against a rampant Liverpool,though 0-0 felt like a win :D . It also goes back to one of my other posts of VAR in the F.A. Cup,that it should be the same rules for everyone whether non league or top flight. But back to 'Playing the Covid Card' Arsenal now get a nice rest before next weeks second leg semi-final against Liverpool,who have got to play Brentford tomorrow. I bet they wished they hadn't played the 'Covid Card' in the first leg now. But on a serious note all clubs have at least 25 registered players and a big second squad,if players get injured/banned well that's not an excuse to cancel games.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
    lucy4 said:

    I totally agree with you,it's got to a ludicrous situation (which the P.L. & F.A. have slowly walked in to). Once clubs knew they could manipulate the situation to their advantage there was no way that clubs wouldn't work it for their own benefit. As for the NLD being cancelled tomorrow,I'm happy that we've finally played the same game as others have been playing this season. We would've been seriously depleted in midfield and not to mention knackered after the midweek 10 man excursions against a rampant Liverpool,though 0-0 felt like a win :D . It also goes back to one of my other posts of VAR in the F.A. Cup,that it should be the same rules for everyone whether non league or top flight. But back to 'Playing the Covid Card' Arsenal now get a nice rest before next weeks second leg semi-final against Liverpool,who have got to play Brentford tomorrow. I bet they wished they hadn't played the 'Covid Card' in the first leg now. But on a serious note all clubs have at least 25 registered players and a big second squad,if players get injured/banned well that's not an excuse to cancel games.

    Seriously depleted in midfield. Indeed.

    Last week you had 9 natural midfielders at the club.
    1 sick-Odegaard.
    1 injured-Saka
    3 at AfCon-Elneny, Pepe, Partey
    1 suspended-Xhaka

    3 left-Smith Rowe, Lokonga, Maitland-Niles.

    4 or 5 due back before next International break.

    Solution? Let Maitland-Niles go out on loan. Now. Not in a fortnight's time.

    A lot of Premier League teams think they can treat fixture scheduling with contempt. Not just Arsenal.

    The problem is this. The Premier League needs the massive TV money. But is proving distinctly unreliable in relation to providing the product at the agreed time. That is going to cause problems down the line.
  • pompeynicpompeynic Member Posts: 2,834
    What about the under23 teams that the premier league teams have? Along side youth teams surely there will be players available to play? The number of players that the premier league clubs hoover up, in addition to those they loan out across the lower leagues, it does seem amazing they do not have enough players to complete a side.
    The practice of having players across the under23 / loan systems, who will never see the first team , is just so the big sides can have their cake and eat it.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
    edited January 2022
    pompeynic said:

    What about the under23 teams that the premier league teams have? Along side youth teams surely there will be players available to play? The number of players that the premier league clubs hoover up, in addition to those they loan out across the lower leagues, it does seem amazing they do not have enough players to complete a side.
    The practice of having players across the under23 / loan systems, who will never see the first team , is just so the big sides can have their cake and eat it.

    It is (even) worse than that.

    We are talking about u-23s being on the bench. All of these postponements involve the club having more than 10 outfield players to start.

    Would it really be so difficult to insist all clubs had a number of loanees that they could contractually recall?

    Or points deductions for the next club that can be shown to be manipulating player availability for their own ends?
  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,939
    This post sums it all up and I can't disagree with any of it.

    Football fans are hypocrites.

    We all hate diving, yet turn a blind eye when we win a game through a penalty that never was, we all hate VAR until the offside decision is given in our favour and so on.

    Throughout the last couple of months of the pandemic, I have had a consistent view.

    Football games should not be postponed due to “Covid and injuries”.

    Every Premier League side has registered over 50 players across their A and B lists. To announce they are unable to field a starting XI and 7 subs is just laughable.

    It was interesting to note that last weekend, faced with forfeiting the tie, no FA Cup game was postponed due to Covid,every team managed to put out a side.

    Then we return to the Premier League and all of a sudden Everton v Leicester City is postponed due to the visitors being unable to field and XI. It is just a joke.

    Therefore I am very disappointed that today's North London Derby game against Tottenham has been postponed.

    But it is not Arsenal’s fault.

    The Premier League set the tone back end of 2021 when they postponed a Tottenham game due to Covid.

    Then as the festive period rolled on, games got suspended left, right and centre due to “covid and injuries”.

    The Football League then postponed the first leg of Arsenal and Liverpool’s League Cup game due to “Covid, injuries and the African Cup of Nations”.

    Teams should not be asking for games to be suspended. That is all.

    However, having seen almost every other club getting a game postponed, it is no surprise Arsenal went down this route. And you can not really blame the club.

    As soon as the authorities opened the gates to postponements, it would have been unfair for them to suddenly close them.

    What we need is to start next year with a clean slate. Make it clear that games will not be postponed. That teams either put out an XI or forfeit the game.

    A final thought.

    It is interesting to see the media turn on Arsenal this weekend, whilst they have remained fairly silent on other postponements.

    Sky have led the criticism. It seems Gary Neville et al are happy to support postponements when it does not affect their TV show. As soon as a game is postponed that leads to no Sky Super Sunday, they are up in arms.

    Do not just blame Arsenal. Blame Tottenham, Liverpool, Manchester United, Wolves, Leciester City, The Premier League, blame them all.

    Pandora’s box was opened when Tottenham begged the Premier League to postpone their game against Brighton.

    Todays game should not have been postponed. No game should have been postponed.

    Keenos.

    https://shewore.com/2022/01/16/north-london-derby-should-not-have-been-postponed-nor-should-any-other-game/?fbclid=IwAR0xIqizrAR1LA32nvvxO73nZ1MVJeUpiFfXdfJNi5V9JAUKOXZTI3CmTu8
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,670

    +1 to all that.

    Also worth noting that if games could not be postponed for reasons of COVID infection, the Clubs would ensure their players took proper precautions & did not expose themselves to the virus.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
    lucy4 said:

    This post sums it all up and I can't disagree with any of it.

    Football fans are hypocrites.

    We all hate diving, yet turn a blind eye when we win a game through a penalty that never was, we all hate VAR until the offside decision is given in our favour and so on.

    Throughout the last couple of months of the pandemic, I have had a consistent view.

    Football games should not be postponed due to “Covid and injuries”.

    Every Premier League side has registered over 50 players across their A and B lists. To announce they are unable to field a starting XI and 7 subs is just laughable.

    It was interesting to note that last weekend, faced with forfeiting the tie, no FA Cup game was postponed due to Covid,every team managed to put out a side.

    Then we return to the Premier League and all of a sudden Everton v Leicester City is postponed due to the visitors being unable to field and XI. It is just a joke.

    Therefore I am very disappointed that today's North London Derby game against Tottenham has been postponed.

    But it is not Arsenal’s fault.

    The Premier League set the tone back end of 2021 when they postponed a Tottenham game due to Covid.

    Then as the festive period rolled on, games got suspended left, right and centre due to “covid and injuries”.

    The Football League then postponed the first leg of Arsenal and Liverpool’s League Cup game due to “Covid, injuries and the African Cup of Nations”.

    Teams should not be asking for games to be suspended. That is all.

    However, having seen almost every other club getting a game postponed, it is no surprise Arsenal went down this route. And you can not really blame the club.

    As soon as the authorities opened the gates to postponements, it would have been unfair for them to suddenly close them.

    What we need is to start next year with a clean slate. Make it clear that games will not be postponed. That teams either put out an XI or forfeit the game.

    A final thought.

    It is interesting to see the media turn on Arsenal this weekend, whilst they have remained fairly silent on other postponements.

    Sky have led the criticism. It seems Gary Neville et al are happy to support postponements when it does not affect their TV show. As soon as a game is postponed that leads to no Sky Super Sunday, they are up in arms.

    Do not just blame Arsenal. Blame Tottenham, Liverpool, Manchester United, Wolves, Leciester City, The Premier League, blame them all.

    Pandora’s box was opened when Tottenham begged the Premier League to postpone their game against Brighton.

    Todays game should not have been postponed. No game should have been postponed.

    Keenos.

    https://shewore.com/2022/01/16/north-london-derby-should-not-have-been-postponed-nor-should-any-other-game/?fbclid=IwAR0xIqizrAR1LA32nvvxO73nZ1MVJeUpiFfXdfJNi5V9JAUKOXZTI3CmTu8

    Agree with almost every word of that.

    If I can partly defend the 1 time Spurs requested a Premier postponement (Brighton). We did have 8 players and 5 staff who tested positive for Covid. And that, as a result of Covid, we were thrown out of Europe. Despite Rennes refusing to rearrange. Compare/contrast with Liverpool v Arsenal in the Carabao.

    Don't get me wrong. I still think the Brighton game should have gone ahead. But 8 players with Covid is at least half an excuse.
  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,939
    Harsh but true...Social Media can be brutal sometimes :D


  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,939
    Premier League officials are set to meet with club representatives to discuss changing the Covid-19 postponement rules.

    No changes will come into effect until after the winter break, which commences on Monday.

    But talks are due to take place during the next fortnight with the expectation that the rules agreed upon at the start of the pandemic will be altered.

    Several Premier League executives have expressed their concern that the current rules are open to being abused by clubs who are simply unable to put out a strong first team.

    A Premier League spokesman said: “The Premier League is consulting with our clubs regarding Covid-19 postponement rules and guidance in light of the changing national picture and the falling number of cases within our squads.

    “The League’s current guidance was amended in December following the emergence of the new Omicron variant and we continue to monitor the ongoing effects of the virus and will update our guidance accordingly.”

    Controversy raged over the weekend after Arsenal were permitted to postpone the north London derby, scheduled for Sunday against Tottenham Hotspur, with only one positive Covid case.

    Spurs spoke of their “extreme surprise” that the application had been granted. While prominent pundit Gary Neville reacted furiously, claiming that clubs were now gaming the system.

    Other critics have asked why Premier League clubs are not being forced to use their academy players, as is the case in Germany and Spain.

    Arsenal were operating within the rules, which take into account the overall affect of coronavirus on a squad. Arsenal have had at least 11 cases since December, plus injuries to other players and absentees playing in the African Cup of Nations. Clubs need only one positive case in their squad to apply.

    Leeds United, for example, picked seven academy players on their bench who had not made a Premier League appearance for their victory against West Ham. Leeds manager Marco Bielsea said afterwards they could not apply for a postponement as no players had Covid.

    If teams are unable to select 13 outfield players and one goalkeeper, a game can be moved.

    But after complaints from executives and to take into account falling Omicron cases, the Premier League has decided to meet with clubs and formulate appropriate regulations.

    They are expected to come into force for the Premier League games that commence in early February.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
    lucy4 said:

    Premier League officials are set to meet with club representatives to discuss changing the Covid-19 postponement rules.

    No changes will come into effect until after the winter break, which commences on Monday.

    But talks are due to take place during the next fortnight with the expectation that the rules agreed upon at the start of the pandemic will be altered.

    Several Premier League executives have expressed their concern that the current rules are open to being abused by clubs who are simply unable to put out a strong first team.

    A Premier League spokesman said: “The Premier League is consulting with our clubs regarding Covid-19 postponement rules and guidance in light of the changing national picture and the falling number of cases within our squads.

    “The League’s current guidance was amended in December following the emergence of the new Omicron variant and we continue to monitor the ongoing effects of the virus and will update our guidance accordingly.”

    Controversy raged over the weekend after Arsenal were permitted to postpone the north London derby, scheduled for Sunday against Tottenham Hotspur, with only one positive Covid case.

    Spurs spoke of their “extreme surprise” that the application had been granted. While prominent pundit Gary Neville reacted furiously, claiming that clubs were now gaming the system.

    Other critics have asked why Premier League clubs are not being forced to use their academy players, as is the case in Germany and Spain.

    Arsenal were operating within the rules, which take into account the overall affect of coronavirus on a squad. Arsenal have had at least 11 cases since December, plus injuries to other players and absentees playing in the African Cup of Nations. Clubs need only one positive case in their squad to apply.

    Leeds United, for example, picked seven academy players on their bench who had not made a Premier League appearance for their victory against West Ham. Leeds manager Marco Bielsea said afterwards they could not apply for a postponement as no players had Covid.

    If teams are unable to select 13 outfield players and one goalkeeper, a game can be moved.

    But after complaints from executives and to take into account falling Omicron cases, the Premier League has decided to meet with clubs and formulate appropriate regulations.

    They are expected to come into force for the Premier League games that commence in early February.

    Just 1 thing to add to this.

    In the international break, if you are a lower league team, but have 3 or more players (I think) unavailable due to it, you can postpone the game.

    So-Arsenal have 4 players unavailable due to AfCon. Why does that not count?
    It counts for meaningless friendlies. But not the African national championship. Why?

    Could have all sorts of solutions. Move the African Championship to an International window. Move an International window to the time AfCon is being played.

    But don't do nothing.
  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,939
    For massive global organisations such as FIFA,UEFA & Premier League etc they do at times lack a bit of common sense in their rule making. If Joe Bloggs can see problems why can't the decision makers see them?
  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,686
    lucy4 said:

    For massive global organisations such as FIFA,UEFA & Premier League etc they do at times lack a bit of common sense in their rule making. If Joe Bloggs can see problems why can't the decision makers see them?

    Probably because Joe Bloggs sees things with 20/20 and for the good of the game, and isn't hindered by trying to see through billions of Pounds, Euros or Dollars and the best way to siphon it away.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
    edited January 2022

    lucy4 said:

    For massive global organisations such as FIFA,UEFA & Premier League etc they do at times lack a bit of common sense in their rule making. If Joe Bloggs can see problems why can't the decision makers see them?

    Probably because Joe Bloggs sees things with 20/20 and for the good of the game, and isn't hindered by trying to see through billions of Pounds, Euros or Dollars and the best way to siphon it away.
    I am sure that that is a factor. But a lot of it is about control.

    FIFA/UEFA want the CAF (Confederation Africaine de Football) to change the date of this tournament to suit European football.

    The CAF completely ignore this, and expect FIFA/UEFA to reorganise European football to meet their wishes.

    1 (or both) of them needs to realise that, as it stands, it is not in football's interest to have 2 bunches of officials concentrating only on their own power bases.
  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,686
    Essexphil said:

    lucy4 said:

    For massive global organisations such as FIFA,UEFA & Premier League etc they do at times lack a bit of common sense in their rule making. If Joe Bloggs can see problems why can't the decision makers see them?

    Probably because Joe Bloggs sees things with 20/20 and for the good of the game, and isn't hindered by trying to see through billions of Pounds, Euros or Dollars and the best way to siphon it away.
    I am sure that that is a factor. But a lot of it is about control.

    FIFA/UEFA want the CAF (Confederation Africaine de Football) to change the date of this tournament to suit European football.

    The CAF completely ignore this, and expect FIFA/UEFA to reorganise European football to meet their wishes.

    1 (or both) of them needs to realise that, as it stands, it is not in football's interest to have 2 bunches of officials concentrating only on their own power bases.
    And there buddy is the world in a nutshell.
  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,939
    Premier League clubs have agreed on new postponement guidance that says teams will have to show four positive COVID-19 cases in order to apply to have a match called off.

    The guidance change comes after a series of controversial decisions to call off matches, with clubs using a combination of coronavirus, injuries, suspensions and players on international duty to postpone games.

    There have been 22 match postponements due to coronavirus and other factors in the Premier League this season.

    It was announced on Monday that the number of positive Covid-19 cases in the Premier League had fallen for the fourth week in a row.

    In the seven days up to and including January 23, there were just 16 new cases among players and staff, from 6,221 tests - the lowest number of positives in a week since December 5.

    The new guidance will come into effect ahead of the next Premier League fixture on Saturday, February 5 when Burnley host Watford.
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