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KK vs AA

dub1dub1 Member Posts: 149
edited March 2010 in Poker Chat
How often should you be seeing KK vs AA?

This seems to happen alot and people are always complaining about it. I looked on Google and all the usual conspiracy theories came up about how online poker is rigged.
 
I've done some calculations and worked out that i should have KK vs AA 1 time every 9057 hands. Is this correct? If it is then that would mean playing on a six max table KK vs AA should happen to someone every 1510 hands.

So if I play 6 tables, seeing 100 hands per hour on each table for 8 hours a day, I should see KK vs AA
3 times a day and should have it happed to me 1 time every 2 days.

Not sure if my maths is correct. Can anyone shed any light on this.

Thanks 
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Comments

  • Seagull158Seagull158 Member Posts: 1,100
    edited March 2010
    In Response to KK vs AA:
    How often should you be seeing KK vs AA? This seems to happen alot and people are always complaining about it. I looked on Google and all the usual conspiracy theories came up about how online poker is rigged.   I've done some calculations and worked out that i should have KK vs AA 1 time every 9057 hands. Is this correct? If it is then that would mean playing on a six max table KK vs AA should happen to someone every 1510 hands. So if I play 6 tables, seeing 100 hands per hour on each table for 8 hours a day, I should see KK vs AA 3 times a day and should have it happed to me 1 time every 2 days. Not sure if my maths is correct. Can anyone shed any light on this. Thanks 
    Posted by dub1
    The odds of getting KK are about 220 to 1 and the odds of another player holding AA on a 6 handed table is about 41 to 1. So the odds of you having KK vs AA are around 9000 to 1. Your calculations look OK to me.
  • JockBMWJockBMW Member Posts: 2,653
    edited March 2010
    Sorry all this is making my Brain hurt this early in the morning 
  • dub1dub1 Member Posts: 149
    edited March 2010
    If the odds of having KK vs AA are 1 time every 9057 hands then it should be the same for having AA vs KK?

    Does that mean that really this situation should happen 1 time every 755 hands on a 6 max table or is that included in my first calculation? 
  • timebomb10timebomb10 Member Posts: 202
    edited March 2010
    yes it does happen alot the poker site knows the pots going to get big so they get a better rake on the pot
    another way for pokersites to make alot of money :)
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,783
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA:
    yes it does happen alot the poker site knows the pots going to get big so they get a better rake on the pot another way for pokersites to make alot of money :)
    Posted by timebomb10
    Rake is capped.

    And you don't need A-A v K-K to generate a big pot.
    ;)
  • Seagull158Seagull158 Member Posts: 1,100
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA:
    If the odds of having KK vs AA are 1 time every 9057 hands then it should be the same for having AA vs KK? Does that mean that really this situation should happen 1 time every 755 hands on a 6 max table or is that included in my first calculation? 
    Posted by dub1
    Any player having AA vs KK is included in your calculation of any player having KK vs AA because you have calculated the number of times that it will occur between any 2 players on the table. I think!
  • timebomb10timebomb10 Member Posts: 202
    edited March 2010
    oh i thought the more invested into a pot the bigger the rake
    tikay would you fold kk in a tourny preflop
    i normally fold in a 2 way pot on the forth raise preflop
    if its 9 seated anyway
    i would like to know your views
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,783
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA:
    oh i thought the more invested into a pot the bigger the rake tikay would you fold kk in a tourny preflop i normally fold in a 2 way pot on the forth raise preflop if its 9 seated anyway i would like to know your views
    Posted by timebomb10
    Only in extreme circumstances, against a certain type of player, when playing very deep in a well-structured tourney, & in the "4th re-raise" scenario you describe. So, not often!

    I played a £1k event at Palm Beach Casino in Mayfair a few years back, & got it all-in the very first hand With Kings, & walked smack-bang into Aces. And, with sparce-esque luck, binked the King. ;)
  • timebomb10timebomb10 Member Posts: 202
    edited March 2010
    lol ive been in that very 1st hand off tournament kk vs AA didnt shove preflop thought . I hit a king on the flop the money went in . only to be out done on the turn when an ace came lucky it was a rebuy lol that tourny cost me 4 rebuys good investment though
  • dylan12dylan12 Member Posts: 2,343
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA:
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA : Only in extreme circumstances, against a certain type of player, when playing very deep in a well-structured tourney, & in the "4th re-raise" scenario you describe. So, not often! I played a £1k event at Palm Beach Casino in Mayfair a few years back, & got it all-in the very first hand With Kings, & walked smack-bang into Aces. And, with sparce-esque luck, binked the King. ;)
    Posted by Tikay10
    That guy runs soooooooooooo good!! lol
  • BlackFish3BlackFish3 Member Posts: 2,418
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA:
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA : Only in extreme circumstances, against a certain type of player, when playing very deep in a well-structured tourney, & in the "4th re-raise" scenario you describe. So, not often! I played a £1k event at Palm Beach Casino in Mayfair a few years back, & got it all-in the very first hand With Kings, & walked smack-bang into Aces. And, with sparce-esque luck, binked the King. ;)
    Posted by Tikay10
    How did you get on in it? you cash?
  • blade900blade900 Member Posts: 83
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA:
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA : Only in extreme circumstances, against a certain type of player, when playing very deep in a well-structured tourney, & in the "4th re-raise" scenario you describe. So, not often! I played a £1k event at Palm Beach Casino in Mayfair a few years back, & got it all-in the very first hand With Kings, & walked smack-bang into Aces. And, with sparce-esque luck, binked the King. ;)
    Posted by Tikay10
    the reverse always seems to be my fate,have never had luck with aa kk jj etc.when the flop comes im usually always on the back foot,turn burn river cremated i just put this down to luck on the day.......then i go and beat myself with a bit of rubber tubing i keep in my computer desk!
  • Seagull158Seagull158 Member Posts: 1,100
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA:
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA : the reverse always seems to be my fate,have never had luck with aa kk jj etc.when the flop comes im usually always on the back foot,turn burn river cremated i just put this down to luck on the day.......then i go and beat myself with a bit of rubber tubing i keep in my computer desk!
    Posted by blade900
    Are you sure you are not actually willing it to happen so that you can beat yourself with the rubber tubing?
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,783
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA:
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA : How did you get on in it? you cash?
    Posted by BlackFish3
    Err, pass.

    The Event was won by a guy called Alan Smurfit, who's a pal of sorts.

    Alan's brother Michael owns the "K Club", a seriously pricey Golf Club & Resort in Ireland, where the Ryder Cup was held. Michael, Alan, & two other brothers, were the major shareholders, & used to run, the Smurfit Packaging Group, which was sold to a Swedish Packaging company for about €3.5 billion.

    Alan then went on to win a WSOP Bracelet - (in Pot Limit, of all things, which is  a far more-skilled format than No-Limit) - at his first attempt, in 2007.

    Alan lived in Florida for many years, as he ran the South American arm of the business, but he lives - & very well, I may add - In Las Vegas these days.

    When Alan plays poker, he always places his WSOP bracelet on the Table, next to his chips. And why not?






  • robcrobc Member Posts: 521
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA:
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA : Err, pass. The Event was won by a guy called Alan Smurfit, who's a pal of sorts. Alan's brother Michael owns the "K Club", a seriously pricey Golf Club & Resort in Ireland, where the Ryder Cup was held. Michael, Alan, & two other brothers, were the major shareholders, & used to run, the Smurfit Packaging Group, which was sold to a Swedish Packaging company for about €3.5 billion. Alan then went on to win a WSOP Bracelet - (in Pot Limit, of all things, which is  a far more-skilled format than No-Limit) - at his first attempt, in 2007. Alan lived in Florida for many years, as he ran the South American arm of the business, but he lives - & very well, I may add - In Las Vegas these days. When Alan plays poker, he always places his WSOP bracelet on the Table, next to his chips. And why not?
    Posted by Tikay10
     you should seriously write a book the amount of storys and people you no

     I for one would enjoy reading it :)
  • robcrobc Member Posts: 521
    edited March 2010
     O yeah i seen your name mentioned in a book i read the other day bigger deal by anthony holden
  • BlackFish3BlackFish3 Member Posts: 2,418
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA:
     O yeah i seen your name mentioned in a book i read the other day bigger deal by anthony holden
    Posted by robc
    what did it say?
  • robcrobc Member Posts: 521
    edited March 2010
    Anthony Holden played in a heads up tournament that tikay was playing in aswell i think it was poker writers and anaylists against students or something along those lines...... was a few weeks ago i read it sure tikay will correct me if thats wrong.
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,783
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA:
    In Response to Re: KK vs AA :   you should seriously write a book the amount of storys and people you no  I for one would enjoy reading it :)
    Posted by robc
    Thanks Rob, for those kind words. It's not until I get asked a question that I'm reminded of all these tales of people I've met in my poker journey.

    And as it happens, my life was pretty interesting ebefore I started playing poker. But that's another story. Or two......

    I'd love to write a book, too, but although I know a lot of tales, my vocab is a bit limited for that sort of thing. I do keep a well-read Diary though, elsewhere, & that might make up into half a book if I ever found time to filter out the junk.

    I began a major, 4 part Blog last week actually, I just fancied writing, I had the "mood", & it was a pretty long Blog, & I don't think it even mentioned Poker. It was a poker-tale, but it just took a while to get to the poker bit!

    In fact, I might upload Part 1 of that Blog this afternoon. Don't expect much Poker in it though.

    I was not ware that I got a mention in Anthony Holden's 2nd book, but I had a few mentiions in Des Wilson's book about Devilfish.

    In fact, there are 2 more stories there!

    Des Wilson, who has been on 865 a few times, is THE most amazing man, & I've spent some time at his cottage in Cornwall, which we filmed for Poker Week. I could actually write a whole chapter on Dear Des (he's very old now), but how's this for starters?

    Des has probably saved about a million peoples lives........

    And when he was writing his book on Devilfish, he kept chasing me to give him some Devilfish stories. And I kept avoiding him. This went on, I kid you not, for 2 years or more.

    Eventully, he nabs me at the Barcelona EPT in 2004, & he's a "bit cross" that I've stood him up so many times. He said "for Christ's sake Tony, all I asked was for you to tell me a nice thing about Devilfish, is that so hard?". And I replied, err, "well yes, as it happens Des, it's impossible actually, he's a dreadful man, & there are no nice tales about him". And there were not. Des, at the time, thought Devilfish was wonderful, & was a bit miffed with me. But before he finished writing the book, he realised the score, & in fact the book was eventually delayed a year, while Des re-wrote it to include some of the less savoury stories about Mr Ulliott.

    There you go, you've started me off again!
  • elsadogelsadog Member Posts: 5,677
    edited March 2010

    I met 'old man Smurfitt' (their Father) in the '70's when I too owned a packaging company. Mine was slightly smaller than his.

    That is all :o)

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