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Cyclist.
Driver, 77, prosecuted for passing a cyclist too closely blasts 'appalling' court decision as he is left £4,500 out of pocket despite 'leaving at least 4ft of space'
Wayne Humphreys, 77, was captured overtaking a cyclist via GoPro camera on a country road while driving his white Audi Q8 (L-R) in Wales last year. The cyclist reported the incident to roads policing team GoSafe, which is a road casualty reduction partnership that encourages motorists to drive legally and safely. It enables the public to upload video evidence and complete a statement about an offence they have witnessed, which is subsequently sent police where they review the footage and decide if any offences detected can be prosecuted. Warehouse boss Mr Humphreys was contacted over the manoeuvre but refused to accept any wrongdoing and did not attend a course or pay a fixed penalty notice. He was prosecuted at Cardiff Magistrates Court for driving without due care and attention, given four penalty points, and ordered to pay £1,887 in a fine alongside the court and solicitor costs
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10919215/Man-77-furious-4-500-pocket-prosecuted-closely-passing-cyclist.html
Wayne Humphreys, 77, was captured overtaking a cyclist via GoPro camera on a country road while driving his white Audi Q8 (L-R) in Wales last year. The cyclist reported the incident to roads policing team GoSafe, which is a road casualty reduction partnership that encourages motorists to drive legally and safely. It enables the public to upload video evidence and complete a statement about an offence they have witnessed, which is subsequently sent police where they review the footage and decide if any offences detected can be prosecuted. Warehouse boss Mr Humphreys was contacted over the manoeuvre but refused to accept any wrongdoing and did not attend a course or pay a fixed penalty notice. He was prosecuted at Cardiff Magistrates Court for driving without due care and attention, given four penalty points, and ordered to pay £1,887 in a fine alongside the court and solicitor costs
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10919215/Man-77-furious-4-500-pocket-prosecuted-closely-passing-cyclist.html
Comments
One of those choices is whether to accept wrongdoing, or to roll the dice at the Magistrates.
Sensible people take the safer option.
His first option was to go on a driver awareness course. Pay for the course, learn some stuff, no conviction, no points. He refused that.
2nd option given was then a FPN-probably 3 points/£100. Refused that.
Somebody almost certainly would have told him that, if you are convicted, fine is mainly related to disposable income. Someone driving an Audi Q8 tends to have a large amount of disposable income. Which will be reflected in relation to both the size of the Fine and the Contribution to the Prosecution's Costs/Court time.
Because 4 points on a 3-9 points or ban scale suggests that it was not a bad due care case. The size of the fine is either because he is minted, or that he declined to give his income details.
He argued that he had at no time departed from the standard of the ordinarily competent driver. While also appearing to leave less space than the other passing vehicle-which did not make the cyclist cry out in fear.
And that a Magistrate did not believe him.
He really should have taken the course. Any sensible person, particularly a 77-yr-old, should do so. It is not an admission of Guilt. And just wait til he sees his insurance renewal premium...
You and I clearly don't see things the same on this one. Careless driving is far easier to prove than you think. If he hadn't seen the cyclist/made no avoidance manoeuvres, it would have been upper end Careless or Dangerous Driving. Resulting in rather more points on his licence or a ban. And that has been exactly the same for over 30 years. The only bit that has gone up has been the costs. Not the fine or points.
All boils down to what the best advice is. What you (or I) think the Law should be? Or what it is? Because I certainly don't always agree with the Law (although I do on this occasion). But that never interferes with advising what is best for the Client.
The cars that gave him the cyclist more space look lighter than an Audi Q8. The turbulence/risk was there. In the belief of the Prosecution and (more importantly) the Magistrate.
This is not "common sense". It is the Law of the land. I have probably advised over a thousand people in this man's position. About 990 listened. And the other 10 banged on about how unfair life is. Thought they knew best in relation to Careless Driving. And ended up a lot poorer. Because that is the way life works.
PS-about the "34 in a 30-zone 35-40 years ago." Not true. There was a 10% + 2 discretion then-no idea if that is still true. And most speedometers show a slightly higher speed than the actual speed.
Did he depart from the standard of the ordinarily competent driver? Yes.
Did he fail to give due consideration to other road users? Yes.
For me, the clincher is how much space he left the cyclist. A lot less than other drivers that were passing. More importantly, for him, the Magistrate saw this in that same way. Not that he drove recklessly/dangerously. Not that he took no consideration. That he did not take enough.
Common sense? I'll just say this. The costs of the Prosecution appears to be about £3,000+. That's for the evidence via the police, the Prosecution costs (the Lawyer, the Clerk to the Mags, the Court space etc). Who do you think should pay for that?
The person who was confident that he knew that he did not leave insufficient space? That he knew better than the other drivers? And everyone else involved? That wanted his day in Court?
Or you and me. The taxpayer.
The most serious offences are Indictable (they have a Jury). Then there are Either Way offences. Clue is in the name, although it is the Defendant who normally decides which one
I'm not keen on cyclists. I think some of the rules are unfairly weighted in favour of cyclists.
But that was Careless Driving. Always has been. Always will be.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/british-drivers-rage-over-elderly-man-s-fine-for-overtaking-a-cyclist-not-sensible/ar-AAYEvUu?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=cfd6f4f00afc42f4b6e1aba6a6b46077
I was a multi drop delivery driver for years and I've always given cyclists plenty of room but some of the bams ah worked with treated it as a sport to see how close they could get to somebody on a bike, then you get the like of the bike clubs who cycle 3 or 4 abreast, 5 deep, ah could easily take a shotgun to them; but ma pet hate is adults who ride on pavements and expect you to jump oot the way, I've had a few arguments over that.
If anyone should be fined they should IMHO.
Harvest has begun and chaos is already ensuing so here's a bit of a reminder for cyclists, especially during harvest who think that their joy ride is more important than food production. Also FYI, the last cyclist that tried to get past our convoy of tractors and harvesters ended up in a hedge so choose your battles wisely (and before someone says something it wasn't on purpose, it was his own fault).
From an irritated farmer:
A polite-ish notice to all cyclists on country roads during this harvest.
Please understand I have zero issues with you using the roads to ride your bicycle, I’m all for exercising and if slipping in to a lycra suit and impaling your self on a **** shaped bike seat for hours keeps you satisfied then each to their own. If I’m driving a car I always give plenty of ‘safe space’ when passing cyclists which is only fair, we know how sensitive you are to your requested road space, you have just as much right to the roads as anyone....
HOWEVER, if I’m coming at you in a **** great big tractor with 20 tons behind me on a single track road, do me and yourself a favour and STOP for one second, either move as far over to your side of the road or just step on to the verge if there is one, so I can pass safely, do not just continue at full speed and then **** and moan as you go past because if it goes wrong you’ll end up being pressure washed off a tractor wheel.
Unfortunately for you we take all your space and we can’t help it, so unless you want to lend a hand either changing a tyre that’s blown out or shovelling up a spillage, then we’re not dropping our wheels into drainage grips so that you can continue your bicycle ride. Cars, horse riders and runners are capable of it, I seem to be missing something with cyclists, I presume either you don’t want to get your special bike dirty, you’re trying to beat your PB or more than likely you’re just a complete **** in general.
Regards your Road Safety Advocate for the 3 shires 😂