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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Welcome to Palé Hall - Country House Hotel & Restaurant in North Wales

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8izqTT6ma8
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Pale Hall Hotel/Gwesty Palé Hall

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY9nX8JUeTM
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
    edited June 2022
    I always find these "best in the uk" awards a bit baffling. Simply because hotels come in all shapes and sizes, in all types of location.

    Looks lovely. Thought I would mention how such hotels seek to make a profit while appearing to offer value for money. And the trick that hotel/restaurant diners should look out for.

    That hotel costs £295 per night to stay in. But it looks gorgeous. Pricey, but looks like value for money there. Similarly, the food looks reassuringly expensive, but not more than one would expect for that sort of place.

    The thing people never focus on is the price of the wine.

    Let's start by saying that, if you wish to drink wine, then the restaurant/hotel needs to earn a substantial amount per glass/bottle. For a restaurant like this, probably need to make at least £20 per bottle, and average £25 per bottle. Because, these days, that is where restaurants make their profit. People know the price of food. But not the price of wine.

    This hotel also concentrates on selling wine by the glass, not the bottle. Who knows the price of a glass of wine?

    Now-when you look at the cheapest wines, they work out at about £30 per bottle (£28 white, £32 red). Fair enough. But the sommelier will seek to ensure you are steered to the money makers.

    The red wine being plugged most is the New Zealand Pinotage. I bought that Pinotage a few months ago. Cost me about £28 for a bottle. They are selling it at £32 for a glass. So the mark up is £100 for a very decent, but not truly exceptional, wine. The Chianti Classico? Priced as though it is the maker's Chianti Classico Riserva.

    People usually look at the food menu before going to a place like this. But not the wine menu. But, when it comes to price and value for money, always important to look carefully at the wine menu. Particularly if there is a specialist wine waiter (a sommelier). Because they know how to steer you towards the biggest mark-up.

    I love lots if different food. And lots of different wine. I save a lot of money by choosing the food on the day that I want to go with the pre-chosen right wine. Not the other way round.

    Not having a pop at this hotel. Looks lovely. Lots of their rivals will be doing the same on the wine.

    PS-what is the difference between a "jus" and a "gravy"? About £5.00 :)
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    HAYSIE said:

    Pale Hall Hotel/Gwesty Palé Hall

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY9nX8JUeTM

    They also seem particularly green.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    I always find these "best in the uk" awards a bit baffling. Simply because hotels come in all shapes and sizes, in all types of location.

    Looks lovely. Thought I would mention how such hotels seek to make a profit while appearing to offer value for money. And the trick that hotel/restaurant diners should look out for.

    That hotel costs £295 per night to stay in. But it looks gorgeous. Pricey, but looks like value for money there. Similarly, the food looks reassuringly expensive, but not more than one would expect for that sort of place.

    The thing people never focus on is the price of the wine.

    Let's start by saying that, if you wish to drink wine, then the restaurant/hotel needs to earn a substantial amount per glass/bottle. For a restaurant like this, probably need to make at least £20 per bottle, and average £25 per bottle. Because, these days, that is where restaurants make their profit. People know the price of food. But not the price of wine.

    This hotel also concentrates on selling wine by the glass, not the bottle. Who knows the price of a glass of wine?

    Now-when you look at the cheapest wines, they work out at about £30 per bottle (£28 white, £32 red). Fair enough. But the sommelier will seek to ensure you are steered to the money makers.

    The red wine being plugged most is the New Zealand Pinotage. I bought that Pinotage a few months ago. Cost me about £28 for a bottle. They are selling it at £32 for a glass. So the mark up is £100 for a very decent, but not truly exceptional, wine. The Chianti Classico? Priced as though it is the maker's Chianti Classico Riserva.

    People usually look at the food menu before going to a place like this. But not the wine menu. But, when it comes to price and value for money, always important to look carefully at the wine menu. Particularly if there is a specialist wine waiter (a sommelier). Because they know how to steer you towards the biggest mark-up.

    I love lots if different food. And lots of different wine. I save a lot of money by choosing the food on the day that I want to go with the pre-chosen right wine. Not the other way round.

    Not having a pop at this hotel. Looks lovely. Lots of their rivals will be doing the same on the wine.

    PS-what is the difference between a "jus" and a "gravy"? About £5.00 :)

    I recall some years ago my boss was contemplating purchasing a similar hotel in Northumberland.
    The room prices were the same, with the exception of the penthouse.
    He asked me to book an overnight stay as a mystery shopper, before finalising the purchase.
    The hotel was superb.
    I noticed some peculiar signs, and asked the receptionist about the purpose of them.
    The hotel had apparently featured in an episode of Vera, on the telly.
    I sat down for dinner with Mrs Hayes, and the drinks waiter, who was bending over to top up my glass, while carrying a tray of drinks, delivered all the drinks on the tray to my wifes lap.
    This was unfortunate, as we were only staying for one night, and she had nothing suitable to change into, and we were both hungry.
    There were no further accidents, and he bought the hotel.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
    It is a clever advert. Virtue signalling is very popular and effective at the minute.

    You will always pay extra for that Michelin Star.

    Key question for me is this. Do I want to pay extra to show I am thinking about the planet? Conveniently ignoring the massive additional cost to the planet dining out always involves (but I might look more virtuous if I use up slightly less resources)? Just their favourite wine had an 8,000-mile journey. But at least the tomato was local.

    Or do I want one that got it because of their exceptional food? Because the Green Star is the 1 that does not signify better food.

    Nothing against "saving the planet". But I am going for the latter.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    It is a clever advert. Virtue signalling is very popular and effective at the minute.

    You will always pay extra for that Michelin Star.

    Key question for me is this. Do I want to pay extra to show I am thinking about the planet? Conveniently ignoring the massive additional cost to the planet dining out always involves (but I might look more virtuous if I use up slightly less resources)? Just their favourite wine had an 8,000-mile journey. But at least the tomato was local.

    Or do I want one that got it because of their exceptional food? Because the Green Star is the 1 that does not signify better food.

    Nothing against "saving the planet". But I am going for the latter.

    Doesnt the fact that they produce their own electricity impress you?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    edited June 2022
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    I always find these "best in the uk" awards a bit baffling. Simply because hotels come in all shapes and sizes, in all types of location.

    Looks lovely. Thought I would mention how such hotels seek to make a profit while appearing to offer value for money. And the trick that hotel/restaurant diners should look out for.

    That hotel costs £295 per night to stay in. But it looks gorgeous. Pricey, but looks like value for money there. Similarly, the food looks reassuringly expensive, but not more than one would expect for that sort of place.

    The thing people never focus on is the price of the wine.

    Let's start by saying that, if you wish to drink wine, then the restaurant/hotel needs to earn a substantial amount per glass/bottle. For a restaurant like this, probably need to make at least £20 per bottle, and average £25 per bottle. Because, these days, that is where restaurants make their profit. People know the price of food. But not the price of wine.

    This hotel also concentrates on selling wine by the glass, not the bottle. Who knows the price of a glass of wine?

    Now-when you look at the cheapest wines, they work out at about £30 per bottle (£28 white, £32 red). Fair enough. But the sommelier will seek to ensure you are steered to the money makers.

    The red wine being plugged most is the New Zealand Pinotage. I bought that Pinotage a few months ago. Cost me about £28 for a bottle. They are selling it at £32 for a glass. So the mark up is £100 for a very decent, but not truly exceptional, wine. The Chianti Classico? Priced as though it is the maker's Chianti Classico Riserva.

    People usually look at the food menu before going to a place like this. But not the wine menu. But, when it comes to price and value for money, always important to look carefully at the wine menu. Particularly if there is a specialist wine waiter (a sommelier). Because they know how to steer you towards the biggest mark-up.

    I love lots if different food. And lots of different wine. I save a lot of money by choosing the food on the day that I want to go with the pre-chosen right wine. Not the other way round.

    Not having a pop at this hotel. Looks lovely. Lots of their rivals will be doing the same on the wine.

    PS-what is the difference between a "jus" and a "gravy"? About £5.00 :)

    I recall some years ago my boss was contemplating purchasing a similar hotel in Northumberland.
    The room prices were the same, with the exception of the penthouse.
    He asked me to book an overnight stay as a mystery shopper, before finalising the purchase.
    The hotel was superb.
    I noticed some peculiar signs, and asked the receptionist about the purpose of them.
    The hotel had apparently featured in an episode of Vera, on the telly.
    I sat down for dinner with Mrs Hayes, and the drinks waiter, who was bending over to top up my glass, while carrying a tray of drinks, delivered all the drinks on the tray to my wifes lap.
    This was unfortunate, as we were only staying for one night, and she had nothing suitable to change into, and we were both hungry.
    There were no further accidents, and he bought the hotel.
    This was it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8rkufI7_YY


    Seaham Hall Hotel luxury holiday bungalows

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faG1Kpg_2NM
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    It is a clever advert. Virtue signalling is very popular and effective at the minute.

    You will always pay extra for that Michelin Star.

    Key question for me is this. Do I want to pay extra to show I am thinking about the planet? Conveniently ignoring the massive additional cost to the planet dining out always involves (but I might look more virtuous if I use up slightly less resources)? Just their favourite wine had an 8,000-mile journey. But at least the tomato was local.

    Or do I want one that got it because of their exceptional food? Because the Green Star is the 1 that does not signify better food.

    Nothing against "saving the planet". But I am going for the latter.

    Doesnt the fact that they produce their own electricity impress you?
    Not particularly, no. I can see why they do it-to get that Star. But I always wonder what the net cost of anyone producing their own electricity really is. Because I presume the big electricity companies are able to save resources via economies of scale.

    Whereas it will impress the people who use lots of the planet's resources in getting there, staying there, and getting back. Because I would expect most of their guests are travelling quite some distance. And will genuinely believe they are helping to save the planet.
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