In the meantime I suggest loading up any accounts you might wish to use with as much as you can. I have a set limit per week on Sky of £100. So in essence until that white paper is published and it's all been hashed and rehashed etc, I could easily load £5k into my account if I so wished, and if that didn't keep me playing low stakes tourneys until death then maybe I shouldn't be playing at all
There are some nit picks I could pick with both of your replies here, but that would be needless waffle and we all know I can waffle on. Suffice to say I agree in principle with the gist of what you both say in terms of what would be reasonable and sensible things in the White paper.
My issue is that I do not have confidence that the White paper would be reasonable and sensible. Based on a number of factors I mean the recent thing media titles like dismay as white paper delayed again implying people are dying every day it is delayed. the figure of 409 people dying from gambling related suicide means on average 1.12 people do kill themselves every day due to gambling addiction. This sounds alarming and I may sound unsympathetic to this but really the steps you would need to take to get this number down to 0 would be ridiculous in the extreme.
I read that the leading cause of suicide in young teenagers was heart break, logic dictates then that if we were to ban gambling to prevent suicide we should also ban teenagers from dating. To prevent suicide which would be ridiculous.
Alcohol kills more people and ruins more families then gambling as does smoking.
If you wanted a society where by no one suffers and or does something they really shouldn't you would need a very draconian society. Freedom would be gone and likely people would as a whole be a lot worse off.
I think reasonable regulations or limits such as soft deposit limits which you can go past if you can verify you can afford more, and rules on advertising are more then reasonable. but the mistake many make is that they think of what they would assume reasonable and assume the politicians in power would see it the same way. They very may well not.
We are now down to two candidates Liz Truss is been strongly backed by Ian Duncan Smith. Where that is relevant is Ian Duncan Smith is very very anti gambling and his major issue was gambling rules and he spoke to Liz Truss about it and after receiving assurances he is now basically her running mate.
make no mistake about it If Liz Truss wins the Tory leadership contest which she is favourite to do at the moment then I can almost assure you, that you wont have to worry about stakes been limited to £5 online. You wont be able to play more then £2 stakes and that will be after having to send in your bank statements wage slips and have lengthy conversations about your mental well being.
Of course all the sites will fold because they wont be to do this and be profitable, so you could go to the black market no chance VPN can get round some things but what about when they try to block you at the ISP level (internet service provide) so that BT or Virgin will face excessive fines if you can access black market sites via their links?
I thought if they screw me I can go to the black market I have concerns about that but If Liz Truss gets in there is no way its game over. Unless you want to relocate countries to do so I make the same money from the game I make washing pots I cant justify moving to another country for it.
If Rishi Sunak gets in we are likely to be okay he is cynical and a realist I trust he would be practical and calculating with the white paper and so we would likely be okay. This whole issue now Resides On Rishi Sunak.
In the meantime I suggest loading up any accounts you might wish to use with as much as you can. I have a set limit per week on Sky of £100. So in essence until that white paper is published and it's all been hashed and rehashed etc, I could easily load £5k into my account if I so wished, and if that didn't keep me playing low stakes tourneys until death then maybe I shouldn't be playing at all
I dont feel I need to load anymore on sky I am currently over rolled for the games I usually play and slightly under rolled for the games I am thinking of trying to step up to. I dont want to become one of those people that never cash out and just move up and down stakes consistently basically winning of low stakes to hand the money to better high stakes players. So my plan is to try and gradually increase the roll through winning whilst consistently cashing out along the way and sating into games in the meantime.
I've just read this thread and googled for a few minutes to find the following:
The White Paper is likely to be delayed until October, after the Party Conferences, as there is unlikely to be sufficient time between the appointment of the new PM and Parliament going into recess again for the conferences.
There is also a fairly recent article that claims to have good sources on the content of the White Paper. https://focusgn.com/new-details-of-uk-gambling-white-paper-emerge It does seem to suggest that the limits of £2/£5 are for the slot machines and that there is no other stake limits proposed (betting, poker and even other Casino games)
It also covers the 'affordability' question with regards to losses. Frankly it seems sensible and largely uninstrusive unless someone does have a problem in which case, stopping the problem developing is no bad thing. What I cannot find is whether these affordability checks are also going to be restricted to slots only. Probably not but who knows.
Either way, I can't see anything that pertains to Poker explicitly. It really does seem to be an extension of all the preventative measures already in place for slots.
I've just read this thread and googled for a few minutes to find the following:
The White Paper is likely to be delayed until October, after the Party Conferences, as there is unlikely to be sufficient time between the appointment of the new PM and Parliament going into recess again for the conferences.
There is also a fairly recent article that claims to have good sources on the content of the White Paper. https://focusgn.com/new-details-of-uk-gambling-white-paper-emerge It does seem to suggest that the limits of £2/£5 are for the slot machines and that there is no other stake limits proposed (betting, poker and even other Casino games)
It also covers the 'affordability' question with regards to losses. Frankly it seems sensible and largely uninstrusive unless someone does have a problem in which case, stopping the problem developing is no bad thing. What I cannot find is whether these affordability checks are also going to be restricted to slots only. Probably not but who knows.
Either way, I can't see anything that pertains to Poker explicitly. It really does seem to be an extension of all the preventative measures already in place for slots.
Well the articles I read said casino games which includes more then just slots some would consider Poker to be a casino game so that is what I assumed I really hope your right.
with regards to affordability checks and etc based on certain loses its still not clear what triggers these and what the criteria for passing or failing affordability checks are.
Eg is this just based on net deposits? in which case I am fine or is it based on amount won and lost in the account? if deposits then I have nothing to worry about if won lost a few bad days could potentially be the end of poker forever for me or other people.
What criteria would assess whether you pass fail total savings? debt? wages and earnings? and what is the process if someone fails is that game over they have to be banned or is that cooling of period or just someone saying okay are you sure you want to continue are you really sure? okay then well if your sure....
There are a lot of uncertainties here and without knowing the criteria that needs to be followed I cant possibly know if I would pass or fail.
the ironic thing is the wrong type of affordability checks would encourage me to play more not less. To explain I am a profitable player so yes I may have bad days but if I play daily the likely hood of having a losing month becomes very low. where as if I take a month out and then return and then have just one or two bad days and get checked and the standards are tough that could be it for me.
Where that would become an issue is I do not want to have to play around my exam time, next year I may be on top of it this time not in a last minute cramming panic etc and able and wanting to play fully, but if not I wouldnt like to feel like I have to keep playing because otherwise a few bad days could be final curtains on the poker etc.
I've just read this thread and googled for a few minutes to find the following:
The White Paper is likely to be delayed until October, after the Party Conferences, as there is unlikely to be sufficient time between the appointment of the new PM and Parliament going into recess again for the conferences.
There is also a fairly recent article that claims to have good sources on the content of the White Paper. https://focusgn.com/new-details-of-uk-gambling-white-paper-emerge It does seem to suggest that the limits of £2/£5 are for the slot machines and that there is no other stake limits proposed (betting, poker and even other Casino games)
It also covers the 'affordability' question with regards to losses. Frankly it seems sensible and largely uninstrusive unless someone does have a problem in which case, stopping the problem developing is no bad thing. What I cannot find is whether these affordability checks are also going to be restricted to slots only. Probably not but who knows.
Either way, I can't see anything that pertains to Poker explicitly. It really does seem to be an extension of all the preventative measures already in place for slots.
Well the articles I read said casino games which includes more then just slots some would consider Poker to be a casino game so that is what I assumed I really hope your right.
with regards to affordability checks and etc based on certain loses its still not clear what triggers these and what the criteria for passing or failing affordability checks are.
Eg is this just based on net deposits? in which case I am fine or is it based on amount won and lost in the account? if deposits then I have nothing to worry about if won lost a few bad days could potentially be the end of poker forever for me or other people.
What criteria would assess whether you pass fail total savings? debt? wages and earnings? and what is the process if someone fails is that game over they have to be banned or is that cooling of period or just someone saying okay are you sure you want to continue are you really sure? okay then well if your sure....
There are a lot of uncertainties here and without knowing the criteria that needs to be followed I cant possibly know if I would pass or fail.
the ironic thing is the wrong type of affordability checks would encourage me to play more not less. To explain I am a profitable player so yes I may have bad days but if I play daily the likely hood of having a losing month becomes very low. where as if I take a month out and then return and then have just one or two bad days and get checked and the standards are tough that could be it for me.
Where that would become an issue is I do not want to have to play around my exam time, next year I may be on top of it this time not in a last minute cramming panic etc and able and wanting to play fully, but if not I wouldnt like to feel like I have to keep playing because otherwise a few bad days could be final curtains on the poker etc.
I honestly think you are worrying about nothing. Did you actually open the link and see what was being said about affordability checks? You say you are a successful, profitable player so why would you worry? Additionally, whilst online poker might be checked, this whole white paper seems to me to be bringing in safeguards for online/live casinos slots that match FOBT's.
Do not forget, Sky already have a duty of care too and if they believe that anyone on this site (Sky Poker) is depositing and losing then depositing and losing, rinse, repeat, too much in a short space of time, then I'm sure I am right in saying, they have to act. @Tikay10 might well be able to confirm that a 'bell' already rings somewhere prompting a quick affordablility check if this scenario occurs. As might your bank too because they would want to be sure your account hadn't been hacked or you were not money laundering.
Similarly, Sky (alongside any other site that you might play) would be able to see very swiftly if your play (wins/losses & change in deposit frequency along with game types - MTT or cash/high stakes vs medium stakes etc) has significantly changed. They will understand losses (everyone has them) and they will understand breaks (many have them) so they will not kick you off if you lose for a few days on the trot! If they kicked people off for losing, then 95% of the people on this site would be kicked off!
I've just read this thread and googled for a few minutes to find the following:
The White Paper is likely to be delayed until October, after the Party Conferences, as there is unlikely to be sufficient time between the appointment of the new PM and Parliament going into recess again for the conferences.
There is also a fairly recent article that claims to have good sources on the content of the White Paper. https://focusgn.com/new-details-of-uk-gambling-white-paper-emerge It does seem to suggest that the limits of £2/£5 are for the slot machines and that there is no other stake limits proposed (betting, poker and even other Casino games)
It also covers the 'affordability' question with regards to losses. Frankly it seems sensible and largely uninstrusive unless someone does have a problem in which case, stopping the problem developing is no bad thing. What I cannot find is whether these affordability checks are also going to be restricted to slots only. Probably not but who knows.
Either way, I can't see anything that pertains to Poker explicitly. It really does seem to be an extension of all the preventative measures already in place for slots.
Well the articles I read said casino games which includes more then just slots some would consider Poker to be a casino game so that is what I assumed I really hope your right.
with regards to affordability checks and etc based on certain loses its still not clear what triggers these and what the criteria for passing or failing affordability checks are.
Eg is this just based on net deposits? in which case I am fine or is it based on amount won and lost in the account? if deposits then I have nothing to worry about if won lost a few bad days could potentially be the end of poker forever for me or other people.
What criteria would assess whether you pass fail total savings? debt? wages and earnings? and what is the process if someone fails is that game over they have to be banned or is that cooling of period or just someone saying okay are you sure you want to continue are you really sure? okay then well if your sure....
There are a lot of uncertainties here and without knowing the criteria that needs to be followed I cant possibly know if I would pass or fail.
the ironic thing is the wrong type of affordability checks would encourage me to play more not less. To explain I am a profitable player so yes I may have bad days but if I play daily the likely hood of having a losing month becomes very low. where as if I take a month out and then return and then have just one or two bad days and get checked and the standards are tough that could be it for me.
Where that would become an issue is I do not want to have to play around my exam time, next year I may be on top of it this time not in a last minute cramming panic etc and able and wanting to play fully, but if not I wouldnt like to feel like I have to keep playing because otherwise a few bad days could be final curtains on the poker etc.
I honestly think you are worrying about nothing. Did you actually open the link and see what was being said about affordability checks? You say you are a successful, profitable player so why would you worry? Additionally, whilst online poker might be checked, this whole white paper seems to me to be bringing in safeguards for online/live casinos slots that match FOBT's.
Do not forget, Sky already have a duty of care too and if they believe that anyone on this site (Sky Poker) is depositing and losing then depositing and losing, rinse, repeat, too much in a short space of time, then I'm sure I am right in saying, they have to act. @Tikay10 might well be able to confirm that a 'bell' already rings somewhere prompting a quick affordablility check if this scenario occurs. As might your bank too because they would want to be sure your account hadn't been hacked or you were not money laundering.
Similarly, Sky (alongside any other site that you might play) would be able to see very swiftly if your play (wins/losses & change in deposit frequency along with game types - MTT or cash/high stakes vs medium stakes etc) has significantly changed. They will understand losses (everyone has them) and they will understand breaks (many have them) so they will not kick you off if you lose for a few days on the trot! If they kicked people off for losing, then 95% of the people on this site would be kicked off!
I am looking at stepping up stakes though at the moment I am satting into the higher games but as my bankroll continues to grow and if results continue to indicate positive I will be playing higher stakes stepping up as ones results justify is definitely justified and not an indication of problems. Obviously if I get owned at higher stakes long term I will need to take that into account and etc and adjust.
I am not worried about affordability checks if they are done on deposits or done sensibly but who knows what they will put into the legislation.
I think that the real worries is them putting in staking limits which looks a real possibility but depending on who you ask or what source you read it does or does not relate to poker So I guess only time will tell.
I planned to play a lot of poker over the summer when I have more time and do not have to worry about my OU degree. Which I have been doing and plan to continue to. My course starts In oct not sure if beginning or end so when I see details of assignments when they are due etc and have a plan in place so my poker will be limited to have I done my study load/will complete my study load that week if yes I good to go if not then not.
This means some weeks I will be to play poker fully and other weeks barely at all.
Anyway I guess worrying about the future is wasting energy the best thing I can do right now is push hard when I have the time and am not restricted to make to increase poker bankroll as much as possible. If my next month on sky is like it has been this month I will get close to reaching bankroll saturation. Which is the point where by I have the bankroll needed to play the max stakes I would/could play on sky. At that point its just cash out everything after that. Realistically I think I am about six weeks away from that point.
Building bankroll will allow me to have reserves to move to black market sites if it comes to it and or play live.
I should just focus on doing the best I can right now. Hopefully everything will be fine I guess time will tell I just got to do the best I can right now and adapt when more information comes out.
"Building bankroll will allow me to have reserves to move to black market sites"
It does strike me as a little surprising that you whittle & worry endlessly about what might or might not happen as to the White Paper, and yet you seem perfectly happy to deposit cash on unregulated sites, where you have zero protection.
Anyway, whatever happens, I wish you well, but please be careful if you go the unregulated route.
"Building bankroll will allow me to have reserves to move to black market sites"
It does strike me as a little surprising that you whittle & worry endlessly about what might or might not happen as to the White Paper, and yet you seem perfectly happy to deposit cash on unregulated sites, where you have zero protection.
Anyway, whatever happens, I wish you well, but please be careful if you go the unregulated route.
Yeah I hope it is never needed and can debate things over and over but at the moment there is need to go black market, I just hope it stays that way. Only time will tell.
Comments
My issue is that I do not have confidence that the White paper would be reasonable and sensible. Based on a number of factors I mean the recent thing media titles like dismay as white paper delayed again implying people are dying every day it is delayed. the figure of 409 people dying from gambling related suicide means on average 1.12 people do kill themselves every day due to gambling addiction. This sounds alarming and I may sound unsympathetic to this but really the steps you would need to take to get this number down to 0 would be ridiculous in the extreme.
I read that the leading cause of suicide in young teenagers was heart break, logic dictates then that if we were to ban gambling to prevent suicide we should also ban teenagers from dating. To prevent suicide which would be ridiculous.
Alcohol kills more people and ruins more families then gambling as does smoking.
If you wanted a society where by no one suffers and or does something they really shouldn't you would need a very draconian society. Freedom would be gone and likely people would as a whole be a lot worse off.
I think reasonable regulations or limits such as soft deposit limits which you can go past if you can verify you can afford more, and rules on advertising are more then reasonable. but the mistake many make is that they think of what they would assume reasonable and assume the politicians in power would see it the same way. They very may well not.
We are now down to two candidates Liz Truss is been strongly backed by Ian Duncan Smith. Where that is relevant is Ian Duncan Smith is very very anti gambling and his major issue was gambling rules and he spoke to Liz Truss about it and after receiving assurances he is now basically her running mate.
make no mistake about it If Liz Truss wins the Tory leadership contest which she is favourite to do at the moment then I can almost assure you, that you wont have to worry about stakes been limited to £5 online. You wont be able to play more then £2 stakes and that will be after having to send in your bank statements wage slips and have lengthy conversations about your mental well being.
Of course all the sites will fold because they wont be to do this and be profitable, so you could go to the black market no chance VPN can get round some things but what about when they try to block you at the ISP level (internet service provide) so that BT or Virgin will face excessive fines if you can access black market sites via their links?
I thought if they screw me I can go to the black market I have concerns about that but If Liz Truss gets in there is no way its game over. Unless you want to relocate countries to do so I make the same money from the game I make washing pots I cant justify moving to another country for it.
If Rishi Sunak gets in we are likely to be okay he is cynical and a realist I trust he would be practical and calculating with the white paper and so we would likely be okay. This whole issue now Resides On Rishi Sunak.
I dont feel I need to load anymore on sky I am currently over rolled for the games I usually play and slightly under rolled for the games I am thinking of trying to step up to. I dont want to become one of those people that never cash out and just move up and down stakes consistently basically winning of low stakes to hand the money to better high stakes players. So my plan is to try and gradually increase the roll through winning whilst consistently cashing out along the way and sating into games in the meantime.
The White Paper is likely to be delayed until October, after the Party Conferences, as there is unlikely to be sufficient time between the appointment of the new PM and Parliament going into recess again for the conferences.
There is also a fairly recent article that claims to have good sources on the content of the White Paper. https://focusgn.com/new-details-of-uk-gambling-white-paper-emerge It does seem to suggest that the limits of £2/£5 are for the slot machines and that there is no other stake limits proposed (betting, poker and even other Casino games)
It also covers the 'affordability' question with regards to losses. Frankly it seems sensible and largely uninstrusive unless someone does have a problem in which case, stopping the problem developing is no bad thing. What I cannot find is whether these affordability checks are also going to be restricted to slots only. Probably not but who knows.
Either way, I can't see anything that pertains to Poker explicitly. It really does seem to be an extension of all the preventative measures already in place for slots.
with regards to affordability checks and etc based on certain loses its still not clear what triggers these and what the criteria for passing or failing affordability checks are.
Eg is this just based on net deposits? in which case I am fine or is it based on amount won and lost in the account? if deposits then I have nothing to worry about if won lost a few bad days could potentially be the end of poker forever for me or other people.
What criteria would assess whether you pass fail total savings? debt? wages and earnings? and what is the process if someone fails is that game over they have to be banned or is that cooling of period or just someone saying okay are you sure you want to continue are you really sure? okay then well if your sure....
There are a lot of uncertainties here and without knowing the criteria that needs to be followed I cant possibly know if I would pass or fail.
the ironic thing is the wrong type of affordability checks would encourage me to play more not less. To explain I am a profitable player so yes I may have bad days but if I play daily the likely hood of having a losing month becomes very low. where as if I take a month out and then return and then have just one or two bad days and get checked and the standards are tough that could be it for me.
Where that would become an issue is I do not want to have to play around my exam time, next year I may be on top of it this time not in a last minute cramming panic etc and able and wanting to play fully, but if not I wouldnt like to feel like I have to keep playing because otherwise a few bad days could be final curtains on the poker etc.
Do not forget, Sky already have a duty of care too and if they believe that anyone on this site (Sky Poker) is depositing and losing then depositing and losing, rinse, repeat, too much in a short space of time, then I'm sure I am right in saying, they have to act. @Tikay10 might well be able to confirm that a 'bell' already rings somewhere prompting a quick affordablility check if this scenario occurs. As might your bank too because they would want to be sure your account hadn't been hacked or you were not money laundering.
Similarly, Sky (alongside any other site that you might play) would be able to see very swiftly if your play (wins/losses & change in deposit frequency along with game types - MTT or cash/high stakes vs medium stakes etc) has significantly changed. They will understand losses (everyone has them) and they will understand breaks (many have them) so they will not kick you off if you lose for a few days on the trot! If they kicked people off for losing, then 95% of the people on this site would be kicked off!
I am not worried about affordability checks if they are done on deposits or done sensibly but who knows what they will put into the legislation.
I think that the real worries is them putting in staking limits which looks a real possibility but depending on who you ask or what source you read it does or does not relate to poker So I guess only time will tell.
I planned to play a lot of poker over the summer when I have more time and do not have to worry about my OU degree. Which I have been doing and plan to continue to. My course starts In oct not sure if beginning or end so when I see details of assignments when they are due etc and have a plan in place so my poker will be limited to have I done my study load/will complete my study load that week if yes I good to go if not then not.
This means some weeks I will be to play poker fully and other weeks barely at all.
Anyway I guess worrying about the future is wasting energy the best thing I can do right now is push hard when I have the time and am not restricted to make to increase poker bankroll as much as possible. If my next month on sky is like it has been this month I will get close to reaching bankroll saturation. Which is the point where by I have the bankroll needed to play the max stakes I would/could play on sky. At that point its just cash out everything after that. Realistically I think I am about six weeks away from that point.
Building bankroll will allow me to have reserves to move to black market sites if it comes to it and or play live.
I should just focus on doing the best I can right now. Hopefully everything will be fine I guess time will tell I just got to do the best I can right now and adapt when more information comes out.
Morning Mr Me.
"Building bankroll will allow me to have reserves to move to black market sites"
It does strike me as a little surprising that you whittle & worry endlessly about what might or might not happen as to the White Paper, and yet you seem perfectly happy to deposit cash on unregulated sites, where you have zero protection.
Anyway, whatever happens, I wish you well, but please be careful if you go the unregulated route.