I love that Remainers just think that rejoining is a simple process. Or that the EU even want us back.
The situation will be that if we ever seek to rejoin, it will be on The EUs terms not ours. That means spending a large amount of time on the naughty step while we think about what we've done.
You can bet we will get the raw end of every deal.
Also on a serious note what will @HAYSIE have to do when the bulk of his posts are no longer relevant. I suggest that the forum members begin a strategy to make long term support available for what would be an extremely trying time.
I love that Remainers just think that rejoining is a simple process. Or that the EU even want us back.
As the polling is showing a growing majority in favour of rejoining, as the drawbacks become evident, I dont think that you can say this will only apply to remainers. Although it is certaily not clear what the terms and conditions of rejoining might be. They are unlikely to be the same as we had before we left.
The situation will be that if we ever seek to rejoin, it will be on The EUs terms not ours. That means spending a large amount of time on the naughty step while we think about what we've done.
There can obviously be no evidence to support this. Although that will not stop the usual suspects in our press finding one unnamed diplomat to agree with you, and report it as another EU slapdown.
You can bet we will get the raw end of every deal.
More likely that the usual suspects in our press will report it as that.
Also on a serious note what will @HAYSIE have to do when the bulk of his posts are no longer relevant. I suggest that the forum members begin a strategy to make long term support available for what would be an extremely trying time.
I will definitely suffer from withdrawal. Although I am sure that a new series of arguments will break out. Brexiteers reporting on spurious disadvantages of rejoining. In other words, the same bs that they were pitching before we left. I will probably find myself in long term therapy.
I'm somewhere in the middle on this. And, much like on religion, I don't want to get too involved. 2 quick points:-
1. We joined the EEC without a vote (1973). And only later (1975?) had a vote about it. We then left after a 2016 vote, where people voted against something with precisely zero true info as to the alternative. And, to right that, people now campaign to join something before we know what costs that might entail-as though that is in any way different from Brexit
2. Anyone who thinks @HAYSIE will ever run out of spleen, or topics on which to vent it, is delusional
I'm somewhere in the middle on this. And, much like on religion, I don't want to get too involved. 2 quick points:-
1. We joined the EEC without a vote (1973). And only later (1975?) had a vote about it. We then left after a 2016 vote, where people voted against something with precisely zero true info as to the alternative. And, to right that, people now campaign to join something before we know what costs that might entail-as though that is in any way different from Brexit
2. Anyone who thinks @HAYSIE will ever run out of spleen, or topics on which to vent it, is delusional
I'm somewhere in the middle on this. And, much like on religion, I don't want to get too involved. 2 quick points:-
1. We joined the EEC without a vote (1973). And only later (1975?) had a vote about it. We then left after a 2016 vote, where people voted against something with precisely zero true info as to the alternative. And, to right that, people now campaign to join something before we know what costs that might entail-as though that is in any way different from Brexit
2. Anyone who thinks @HAYSIE will ever run out of spleen, or topics on which to vent it, is delusional
Although I would say that there would be no harm in exploring the terms and conditions applicable to rejoining. I dont believe that you can have a proper opinion without doing this. I am certain that the EU would be in favour of this happening. It would allow the electorate to make an informed decision.
I'm somewhere in the middle on this. And, much like on religion, I don't want to get too involved. 2 quick points:-
1. We joined the EEC without a vote (1973). And only later (1975?) had a vote about it. We then left after a 2016 vote, where people voted against something with precisely zero true info as to the alternative. And, to right that, people now campaign to join something before we know what costs that might entail-as though that is in any way different from Brexit
2. Anyone who thinks @HAYSIE will ever run out of spleen, or topics on which to vent it, is delusional
Although I would say that there would be no harm in exploring the terms and conditions applicable to rejoining. I dont believe that you can have a proper opinion without doing this. I am certain that the EU would be in favour of this happening. It would allow the electorate to make an informed decision.
I can see the logic in that. But I think it is impossible, politically. I also think people underestimate the strength of feeling within the EU in relation to the UK. Particularly the leaders within it
I do not believe it is possible to even talk about joining some form of Customs Union yet.
Although I do believe that becomes a real possibility in the next 5-10 years.
I'm somewhere in the middle on this. And, much like on religion, I don't want to get too involved. 2 quick points:-
1. We joined the EEC without a vote (1973). And only later (1975?) had a vote about it. We then left after a 2016 vote, where people voted against something with precisely zero true info as to the alternative. And, to right that, people now campaign to join something before we know what costs that might entail-as though that is in any way different from Brexit
2. Anyone who thinks @HAYSIE will ever run out of spleen, or topics on which to vent it, is delusional
Although I would say that there would be no harm in exploring the terms and conditions applicable to rejoining. I dont believe that you can have a proper opinion without doing this. I am certain that the EU would be in favour of this happening. It would allow the electorate to make an informed decision.
I can see the logic in that. But I think it is impossible, politically. I also think people underestimate the strength of feeling within the EU in relation to the UK. Particularly the leaders within it
I do not believe it is possible to even talk about joining some form of Customs Union yet.
Although I do believe that becomes a real possibility in the next 5-10 years.
I suppose a Lib/Lab coalition would make it more likely. As the Lib Dems may wish to take credit for it.
One telling factor is that we are clearly desperate for growth in our economy. Rejoining the EU would guarantee substantial growth. This may prove tempting for a PM in charge of a struggling economy.
Nigel Farage might be happy, as he seems to prefer white European immigrants, than others?
I'm somewhere in the middle on this. And, much like on religion, I don't want to get too involved. 2 quick points:-
1. We joined the EEC without a vote (1973). And only later (1975?) had a vote about it. We then left after a 2016 vote, where people voted against something with precisely zero true info as to the alternative. And, to right that, people now campaign to join something before we know what costs that might entail-as though that is in any way different from Brexit
2. Anyone who thinks @HAYSIE will ever run out of spleen, or topics on which to vent it, is delusional
Although I would say that there would be no harm in exploring the terms and conditions applicable to rejoining. I dont believe that you can have a proper opinion without doing this. I am certain that the EU would be in favour of this happening. It would allow the electorate to make an informed decision.
I can see the logic in that. But I think it is impossible, politically. I also think people underestimate the strength of feeling within the EU in relation to the UK. Particularly the leaders within it
I do not believe it is possible to even talk about joining some form of Customs Union yet.
Although I do believe that becomes a real possibility in the next 5-10 years.
I suppose a Lib/Lab coalition would make it more likely. As the Lib Dems may wish to take credit for it.
One telling factor is that we are clearly desperate for growth in our economy. Rejoining the EU would guarantee substantial growth. This may prove tempting for a PM in charge of a struggling economy.
Nigel Farage might be happy, as he seems to prefer white European immigrants, than others?
Taking those one by one:-
1. A Lab-Lib pact would make it "more likely". Or, more accurately, slightly less extremely unlikely. And it doesn't look like that is going to happen. Exactly the same would be true for a Lab-SNP pact. Which looks even less likely
2. The country might be desperate for growth. But politicians mainly care about this year compared to last. And next year compared to this. Because those are the only facts voters are given
3. "Rejoining the EI would guarantee substantial growth"? No, it would not. Simply because we do not know the terms of rejoining. We do not know the impacts yet another change would have on UK businesses. Who like to have certainty, stability, and to be able to plan for the future
4. "Tempting for a PM"? Maybe briefly. Before they remember how many PMs have ceased being PM because of attempting to do stuff in relation to the EU. Cameron, May, Johnson. It is the 21st Century Northern Ireland problem
5. That's probably true. Although, politically, that particular argument would damage everyone, including any politician who said it
You have a wish list. As it happens, my wish list would be fairly similar. But it is both unrealistic and unworkable in practice. A lot like things we were promised in 2016.
I'm somewhere in the middle on this. And, much like on religion, I don't want to get too involved. 2 quick points:-
1. We joined the EEC without a vote (1973). And only later (1975?) had a vote about it. We then left after a 2016 vote, where people voted against something with precisely zero true info as to the alternative. And, to right that, people now campaign to join something before we know what costs that might entail-as though that is in any way different from Brexit
2. Anyone who thinks @HAYSIE will ever run out of spleen, or topics on which to vent it, is delusional
Although I would say that there would be no harm in exploring the terms and conditions applicable to rejoining. I dont believe that you can have a proper opinion without doing this. I am certain that the EU would be in favour of this happening. It would allow the electorate to make an informed decision.
I can see the logic in that. But I think it is impossible, politically. I also think people underestimate the strength of feeling within the EU in relation to the UK. Particularly the leaders within it
I do not believe it is possible to even talk about joining some form of Customs Union yet.
Although I do believe that becomes a real possibility in the next 5-10 years.
I suppose a Lib/Lab coalition would make it more likely. As the Lib Dems may wish to take credit for it.
One telling factor is that we are clearly desperate for growth in our economy. Rejoining the EU would guarantee substantial growth. This may prove tempting for a PM in charge of a struggling economy.
Nigel Farage might be happy, as he seems to prefer white European immigrants, than others?
Taking those one by one:-
1. A Lab-Lib pact would make it "more likely". Or, more accurately, slightly less extremely unlikely. And it doesn't look like that is going to happen. Exactly the same would be true for a Lab-SNP pact. Which looks even less likely
I believe he has already said that they will not form a coalition with the SNP. I thought this may be the pound of flesh that the Lib Dems might demand. I am assuming you are expecting a Labour overall majority.
3. The country might be desperate for growth. But politicians mainly care about this year compared to last. And next year compared to this. Because those are the only facts voters are given
It would be an easy way to substantially increase GDP. Although I am not stupid enough to think that rejoining would be easy.
4. "Rejoining the EI would guarantee substantial growth"? No, it would not. Simply because we do not know the terms of rejoining. We do not know the impacts yet another change would have on UK businesses. Who like to have certainty, stability, and to be able to plan for the future
I dont see why. We havent implemented all the changes, charges, and checks yet.
4. "Tempting for a PM"? Maybe briefly. Before they remember how many PMs have ceased being PM because of attempting to do stuff in relation to the EU. Cameron, May, Johnson. It is the 21st Century Northern Ireland problem
Besides Thersa May, the others self inflicted their problems. Rejoining would solve the NI border problems
6. That's probably true. Although, politically, that particular argument would damage everyone, including any politician who said it
He actually said he wasnt keen on Muslims. He then gave a ridiculous explanation of what the immigration policy should be. He blamed Boris for having too low a bar on the qualifying salary. Yet when you raise the bar its ok for recruiting brain surgeons, but rather less helpful when you attempt to recruit farm workers, care workers, nurses, and staff for the hospitality sector.
You have a wish list. As it happens, my wish list would be fairly similar. But it is both unrealistic and unworkable in practice. A lot like things we were promised in 2017. I wish it was not.
It is obvious that rejoining would make sense, depending on terms and conditions. We need a politician with the b alls to do something about it, to get elected.
I so wish the World was like that. It would be a better place.
For example:-
1. I do expect a Labour Majority. But I also believe that the Liberals would ask for Customs Union rather than rejoining. And that it would not be agreed to
3. I think you misunderstand the point I am trying to make. Firstly, that assuming the ability to rejoin and the terms are unknown. Secondly, that the cost to Business of change is massive. Just as true for the last 8 years as it would be for the next 8 years if we tried to rejoin on (as yet unknown) terms. And thirdly, because Politicians primarily care about the short-term. Not the long-term. Take Boris, for example. In reverse. Problems would be short-term and affect the current PM. And the Benefits would be for a future PM
4. See 3. You would be stopping a long-winded nightmare for business. And replace it by starting a new one
6. I agree with all of that. And it should be politically important. But it isn't
I'm somewhere in the middle on this. And, much like on religion, I don't want to get too involved. 2 quick points:-
1. We joined the EEC without a vote (1973). And only later (1975?) had a vote about it. We then left after a 2016 vote, where people voted against something with precisely zero true info as to the alternative. And, to right that, people now campaign to join something before we know what costs that might entail-as though that is in any way different from Brexit
2. Anyone who thinks @HAYSIE will ever run out of spleen, or topics on which to vent it, is delusional
Although I would say that there would be no harm in exploring the terms and conditions applicable to rejoining. I dont believe that you can have a proper opinion without doing this. I am certain that the EU would be in favour of this happening. It would allow the electorate to make an informed decision.
I can see the logic in that. But I think it is impossible, politically. I also think people underestimate the strength of feeling within the EU in relation to the UK. Particularly the leaders within it
I do not believe it is possible to even talk about joining some form of Customs Union yet.
Although I do believe that becomes a real possibility in the next 5-10 years.
I suppose a Lib/Lab coalition would make it more likely. As the Lib Dems may wish to take credit for it.
One telling factor is that we are clearly desperate for growth in our economy. Rejoining the EU would guarantee substantial growth. This may prove tempting for a PM in charge of a struggling economy.
Nigel Farage might be happy, as he seems to prefer white European immigrants, than others?
Taking those one by one:-
1. A Lab-Lib pact would make it "more likely". Or, more accurately, slightly less extremely unlikely. And it doesn't look like that is going to happen. Exactly the same would be true for a Lab-SNP pact. Which looks even less likely
2. The country might be desperate for growth. But politicians mainly care about this year compared to last. And next year compared to this. Because those are the only facts voters are given
3. "Rejoining the EI would guarantee substantial growth"? No, it would not. Simply because we do not know the terms of rejoining. We do not know the impacts yet another change would have on UK businesses. Who like to have certainty, stability, and to be able to plan for the future
4. "Tempting for a PM"? Maybe briefly. Before they remember how many PMs have ceased being PM because of attempting to do stuff in relation to the EU. Cameron, May, Johnson. It is the 21st Century Northern Ireland problem
5. That's probably true. Although, politically, that particular argument would damage everyone, including any politician who said it
You have a wish list. As it happens, my wish list would be fairly similar. But it is both unrealistic and unworkable in practice. A lot like things we were promised in 2016.
I wish it was not.
Reform unveils plan to tax British firms for employing foreign workers
I so wish the World was like that. It would be a better place.
For example:-
1. I do expect a Labour Majority. But I also believe that the Liberals would ask for Customs Union rather than rejoining. And that it would not be agreed to
Why do you think it wouldnt be agreed to? I am not sure that joining the customs union alone would make much difference.
4. I think you misunderstand the point I am trying to make. Firstly, that assuming the ability to rejoin and the terms are unknown. Secondly, that the cost to Business of change is massive. Just as true for the last 8 years as it would be for the next 8 years if we tried to rejoin on (as yet unknown) terms. And thirdly, because Politicians primarily care about the short-term. Not the long-term. Take Boris, for example. In reverse. Problems would be short-term and affect the current PM. And the Benefits would be for a future PM
I did understand the point. But as yet the changes that were due to take place in April have been delayed again. Also there is no certainty that the changes due to take place in October, will take place on time. These changes mean more charges, paperwork, and checks. Joining the customs union would also involve changes.
5. See 3. You would be stopping a long-winded nightmare for business. And replace it by starting a new one
Doing away with extra charges, mountains of paperwork, and bureaucracy would surely make them happy.
7. I agree with all of that. And it should be politically important. But it isn't
Comments
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/it-was-a-pack-of-lies-michael-heseltine-slams-parties-for-avoiding-brexit-elephant-in-the-room-in-election-campaign/ss-BB1njN03?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=e9d06544715e4e7cbcdbb2becc6b687c&ei=96
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/brexiteers-be-warned-a-labour-lib-dem-coalition-could-see-us-back-in-the-eu-analysis-by-olivia-utley/ar-BB1nkW96?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=e9d06544715e4e7cbcdbb2becc6b687c&ei=81#fullscreen
Ireland
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/national/post-brexit-uncertainty-15-key-points-of-tension-in-northern-ireland/ss-BB1ngpEo?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=fe934250762d4825b67325e28c5591fc&ei=41
The situation will be that if we ever seek to rejoin, it will be on The EUs terms not ours. That means spending a large amount of time on the naughty step while we think about what we've done.
You can bet we will get the raw end of every deal.
Also on a serious note what will @HAYSIE have to do when the bulk of his posts are no longer relevant. I suggest that the forum members begin a strategy to make long term support available for what would be an extremely trying time.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/feeney-on-friday-goodbye-and-good-riddance-to-our-brexit-hard-men/ar-BB1niO2D?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=da6e0f240d9d4e0b877c6068cf0f2516&ei=67#fullscreen
Although I am sure that a new series of arguments will break out.
Brexiteers reporting on spurious disadvantages of rejoining.
In other words, the same bs that they were pitching before we left.
I will probably find myself in long term therapy.
1. We joined the EEC without a vote (1973). And only later (1975?) had a vote about it. We then left after a 2016 vote, where people voted against something with precisely zero true info as to the alternative. And, to right that, people now campaign to join something before we know what costs that might entail-as though that is in any way different from Brexit
2. Anyone who thinks @HAYSIE will ever run out of spleen, or topics on which to vent it, is delusional
I dont believe that you can have a proper opinion without doing this.
I am certain that the EU would be in favour of this happening.
It would allow the electorate to make an informed decision.
I do not believe it is possible to even talk about joining some form of Customs Union yet.
Although I do believe that becomes a real possibility in the next 5-10 years.
As the Lib Dems may wish to take credit for it.
One telling factor is that we are clearly desperate for growth in our economy.
Rejoining the EU would guarantee substantial growth.
This may prove tempting for a PM in charge of a struggling economy.
Nigel Farage might be happy, as he seems to prefer white European immigrants, than others?
1. A Lab-Lib pact would make it "more likely". Or, more accurately, slightly less extremely unlikely. And it doesn't look like that is going to happen. Exactly the same would be true for a Lab-SNP pact. Which looks even less likely
2. The country might be desperate for growth. But politicians mainly care about this year compared to last. And next year compared to this. Because those are the only facts voters are given
3. "Rejoining the EI would guarantee substantial growth"? No, it would not. Simply because we do not know the terms of rejoining. We do not know the impacts yet another change would have on UK businesses. Who like to have certainty, stability, and to be able to plan for the future
4. "Tempting for a PM"? Maybe briefly. Before they remember how many PMs have ceased being PM because of attempting to do stuff in relation to the EU. Cameron, May, Johnson. It is the 21st Century Northern Ireland problem
5. That's probably true. Although, politically, that particular argument would damage everyone, including any politician who said it
You have a wish list. As it happens, my wish list would be fairly similar. But it is both unrealistic and unworkable in practice. A lot like things we were promised in 2016.
I wish it was not.
We need a politician with the b alls to do something about it, to get elected.
For example:-
1. I do expect a Labour Majority. But I also believe that the Liberals would ask for Customs Union rather than rejoining. And that it would not be agreed to
3. I think you misunderstand the point I am trying to make. Firstly, that assuming the ability to rejoin and the terms are unknown. Secondly, that the cost to Business of change is massive. Just as true for the last 8 years as it would be for the next 8 years if we tried to rejoin on (as yet unknown) terms. And thirdly, because Politicians primarily care about the short-term. Not the long-term. Take Boris, for example. In reverse. Problems would be short-term and affect the current PM. And the Benefits would be for a future PM
4. See 3. You would be stopping a long-winded nightmare for business. And replace it by starting a new one
6. I agree with all of that. And it should be politically important. But it isn't
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/reform-unveils-plan-to-tax-british-firms-for-employing-foreign-workers/ar-BB1nkc3w?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=bcdf4ef859504b989e9bebad63e3b143&ei=53#fullscreen
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-rethink-front-centre-election-123418358.html
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/20-ways-brexit-has-impacted-your-uk-retirement-plans/ss-BB1nr15i?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=58e0b6ccfabb4ee7875f6b26bed4f4dd&ei=42