People were persuaded to vote for a Brexit that only existed in Dreamland-one perfectly tailored to their own individual wish list.
Equally true that they were not dissuaded by any effective campaigning from Remain-other than a good effort from the political has-been that was Gordon Brown. Project Fear was used, rather than the very real economic difficulties that Brexit was always going to cause. The first time (for example) I realised the real problems with the NI border was from @Haysie As opposed to the politicians whose job was to guide us.
People tend to vote in the now, and for wishing what they haven't got. Economically, Brexit was always going to cause problems in the short-term, and is likely to have a considerable impact on the longer term.
But it is about more than just economics. The current arguments of Brexiteers are nonsense. But in the longer term there may well be real benefits, provided we can manage our role in international trade better than the EU, and can take our individual role on the World stage, as opposed to being subject to the very different EU objectives.
It's certainly not happening yet.
How do you think it would go if we had a referendum today?
Everyone refers to it as the NI Sea Border, but that is not really the case, isnt it effectively a border around GB? The Unionists will never be happy, when as far as they are concerned NI is on the wrong side of the border. There only seem to be three possible solutions, a land border in Ireland, the UK rejoins the SM/CU, or a United Ireland. Is there another solution? We dont want a return to violence. Nobody seems to be facing up to the real problems, or putting forward any solutions.
I appreciate what you are saying, but the longer it goes on the further away we will get. We will diverge more from the EU creating more friction, as will the ending of all grace periods this year. We will negotiate more trade deals that we may have to break.
Net migration might hit a million. So controlling the borders went well.
In large part, the problems have nothing to do with Brexit. The problems are these:-
1. Our unilateral decision to stop producing/selling traditional cars by 2030 has reduced our options; 2. The US/Far East are offering eye-watering incentives for automotive players to relocate. Which, frankly, I fear we cannot afford to match (and, increasingly, neither can the EU)
UK ‘too late’ warning on Brexit electric vehicle battery rules
In large part, the problems have nothing to do with Brexit. The problems are these:-
1. Our unilateral decision to stop producing/selling traditional cars by 2030 has reduced our options; 2. The US/Far East are offering eye-watering incentives for automotive players to relocate. Which, frankly, I fear we cannot afford to match (and, increasingly, neither can the EU)
UK ‘too late’ warning on Brexit electric vehicle battery rules
2 Swedish "entrepreneurs", at least 1 of which had previous fraud convictions, set up "Britishvolt". Spent tens of £millions on business plans from external Accountants (EY), sought to raise somewhere between £2-4 Billion (and received £100 million from the UK Govt to start producing their first battery. Which, to the best of me knowledge, still hasn't been done.
Claimed business was worth £1 billion. But investors did not share that faith. Business already sold for £10 million, and original people all long gone.
When a Swedish former investment banker refers to the UK as "we" he does not speak for me. And he doesn't speak for the Company he fled from last year.
The deal does need renegotiating. Simply because both the UK and the EU overestimated their ability to attract appropriate investment in this market.
In large part, the problems have nothing to do with Brexit. The problems are these:-
1. Our unilateral decision to stop producing/selling traditional cars by 2030 has reduced our options; 2. The US/Far East are offering eye-watering incentives for automotive players to relocate. Which, frankly, I fear we cannot afford to match (and, increasingly, neither can the EU)
UK ‘too late’ warning on Brexit electric vehicle battery rules
2 Swedish "entrepreneurs", at least 1 of which had previous fraud convictions, set up "Britishvolt". Spent tens of £millions on business plans from external Accountants (EY), sought to raise somewhere between £2-4 Billion (and received £100 million from the UK Govt to start producing their first battery. Which, to the best of me knowledge, still hasn't been done.
Claimed business was worth £1 billion. But investors did not share that faith. Business already sold for £10 million, and original people all long gone.
When a Swedish former investment banker refers to the UK as "we" he does not speak for me. And he doesn't speak for the Company he fled from last year.
The deal does need renegotiating. Simply because both the UK and the EU overestimated their ability to attract appropriate investment in this market.
I dont think that is the full story.
The warnings, made to the Business and Trade Select Committee, came as the Trade Secretary, Kemi Badenoch, said that the UK and the EU will “soon” announce a solution to an impending car tariff deadline.
From next year, 45 per cent of an electric vehicle’s value must be sourced in the UK or Europe to avoid export tariffs of 10 per cent. A lack of local battery production means UK carmakers will have to rely on Chinese, Japanese and South Korean manufacturers.
Intenational car maker Stellantis, which makes Vauxhall, Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen cars, has already publicly warned of “significant job losses” in the UK unless the Brexit deadline deal is renegotiated.
Dr Palmer said the lack of a UK industrial strategy was important. “You wouldn’t invest in a company that didn’t have a corporate plan so if you are an external investor why would you invest in a country that doesn’t have a clear plan about what it wants to do with its automotive sector.”
He said it was difficult when dealing with government on industrial matters. “When dealing with batteries, they point us to go talk to the Advanced Propulsion Centre (APC). Batteries don’t necessarily fit into that sector. Batteries go into cars, vertical take off aircraft and into electrical supply storage.”
Looking at batteries only through the lens of cars was “frankly ridiculous” he said. “You’ve got to look at it in the bigger picture, especially about energy storage, which is mission critical.”
“Funding batteries through the APC in my humble opinion is a mistake. My experience is that it is difficult to get past stage one. My company wanted to come to the UK, we wanted to invest here. We won a trade and industry competition to come here.
“When we got into the system we were told there wasn’t enough money left within the APC. We were fourth of three and the three would take priority for that funding. We were asked to check against other countries and what we found was Spain was better. We were virtually pushed out of the UK. Defeat was claimed from the jaws of victory. Which is crazy.”
In large part, the problems have nothing to do with Brexit. The problems are these:-
1. Our unilateral decision to stop producing/selling traditional cars by 2030 has reduced our options; 2. The US/Far East are offering eye-watering incentives for automotive players to relocate. Which, frankly, I fear we cannot afford to match (and, increasingly, neither can the EU)
UK ‘too late’ warning on Brexit electric vehicle battery rules
2 Swedish "entrepreneurs", at least 1 of which had previous fraud convictions, set up "Britishvolt". Spent tens of £millions on business plans from external Accountants (EY), sought to raise somewhere between £2-4 Billion (and received £100 million from the UK Govt to start producing their first battery. Which, to the best of me knowledge, still hasn't been done.
Claimed business was worth £1 billion. But investors did not share that faith. Business already sold for £10 million, and original people all long gone.
When a Swedish former investment banker refers to the UK as "we" he does not speak for me. And he doesn't speak for the Company he fled from last year.
The deal does need renegotiating. Simply because both the UK and the EU overestimated their ability to attract appropriate investment in this market.
I dont think that is the full story.
The warnings, made to the Business and Trade Select Committee, came as the Trade Secretary, Kemi Badenoch, said that the UK and the EU will “soon” announce a solution to an impending car tariff deadline.
From next year, 45 per cent of an electric vehicle’s value must be sourced in the UK or Europe to avoid export tariffs of 10 per cent. A lack of local battery production means UK carmakers will have to rely on Chinese, Japanese and South Korean manufacturers.
Intenational car maker Stellantis, which makes Vauxhall, Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen cars, has already publicly warned of “significant job losses” in the UK unless the Brexit deadline deal is renegotiated.
Dr Palmer said the lack of a UK industrial strategy was important. “You wouldn’t invest in a company that didn’t have a corporate plan so if you are an external investor why would you invest in a country that doesn’t have a clear plan about what it wants to do with its automotive sector.”
He said it was difficult when dealing with government on industrial matters. “When dealing with batteries, they point us to go talk to the Advanced Propulsion Centre (APC). Batteries don’t necessarily fit into that sector. Batteries go into cars, vertical take off aircraft and into electrical supply storage.”
Looking at batteries only through the lens of cars was “frankly ridiculous” he said. “You’ve got to look at it in the bigger picture, especially about energy storage, which is mission critical.”
“Funding batteries through the APC in my humble opinion is a mistake. My experience is that it is difficult to get past stage one. My company wanted to come to the UK, we wanted to invest here. We won a trade and industry competition to come here.
“When we got into the system we were told there wasn’t enough money left within the APC. We were fourth of three and the three would take priority for that funding. We were asked to check against other countries and what we found was Spain was better. We were virtually pushed out of the UK. Defeat was claimed from the jaws of victory. Which is crazy.”
More nonsense.
Dr Palmer works for a Company called Inobat. That tried, and failed, to trouser money from the UK. They are in the process of setting up in Slovakia (not Spain, at least as yet) instead. And that is only a R&D facility-how many years away are they from actually producing batteries?
The reason many new businesses choose Slovakia is simple. A highly-educated workforce. Significant Engineering/Manufacturing experience. No Minimum wage. Labour costs about half that of the UK. Land costs about half that of the UK. Which of course means the Slovakian Government don't have to give them as much money.
And, if they were really able to do what they are currently promising, that would be the solution to the problem. But Dr Palmer clearly believes that he is actually not part of the solution. Because, under the current agreement, the Batteries only have to come from the UK or the EU.
When businesses talk about the difficulties of setting up, in the UK or indeed anywhere, what they really mean is how they can get access to grants and help with start-up costs. You know. Taxpayers' money.
In large part, the problems have nothing to do with Brexit. The problems are these:-
1. Our unilateral decision to stop producing/selling traditional cars by 2030 has reduced our options; 2. The US/Far East are offering eye-watering incentives for automotive players to relocate. Which, frankly, I fear we cannot afford to match (and, increasingly, neither can the EU)
UK ‘too late’ warning on Brexit electric vehicle battery rules
2 Swedish "entrepreneurs", at least 1 of which had previous fraud convictions, set up "Britishvolt". Spent tens of £millions on business plans from external Accountants (EY), sought to raise somewhere between £2-4 Billion (and received £100 million from the UK Govt to start producing their first battery. Which, to the best of me knowledge, still hasn't been done.
Claimed business was worth £1 billion. But investors did not share that faith. Business already sold for £10 million, and original people all long gone.
When a Swedish former investment banker refers to the UK as "we" he does not speak for me. And he doesn't speak for the Company he fled from last year.
The deal does need renegotiating. Simply because both the UK and the EU overestimated their ability to attract appropriate investment in this market.
I dont think that is the full story.
The warnings, made to the Business and Trade Select Committee, came as the Trade Secretary, Kemi Badenoch, said that the UK and the EU will “soon” announce a solution to an impending car tariff deadline.
From next year, 45 per cent of an electric vehicle’s value must be sourced in the UK or Europe to avoid export tariffs of 10 per cent. A lack of local battery production means UK carmakers will have to rely on Chinese, Japanese and South Korean manufacturers.
Intenational car maker Stellantis, which makes Vauxhall, Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen cars, has already publicly warned of “significant job losses” in the UK unless the Brexit deadline deal is renegotiated.
Dr Palmer said the lack of a UK industrial strategy was important. “You wouldn’t invest in a company that didn’t have a corporate plan so if you are an external investor why would you invest in a country that doesn’t have a clear plan about what it wants to do with its automotive sector.”
He said it was difficult when dealing with government on industrial matters. “When dealing with batteries, they point us to go talk to the Advanced Propulsion Centre (APC). Batteries don’t necessarily fit into that sector. Batteries go into cars, vertical take off aircraft and into electrical supply storage.”
Looking at batteries only through the lens of cars was “frankly ridiculous” he said. “You’ve got to look at it in the bigger picture, especially about energy storage, which is mission critical.”
“Funding batteries through the APC in my humble opinion is a mistake. My experience is that it is difficult to get past stage one. My company wanted to come to the UK, we wanted to invest here. We won a trade and industry competition to come here.
“When we got into the system we were told there wasn’t enough money left within the APC. We were fourth of three and the three would take priority for that funding. We were asked to check against other countries and what we found was Spain was better. We were virtually pushed out of the UK. Defeat was claimed from the jaws of victory. Which is crazy.”
More nonsense.
Dr Palmer works for a Company called Inobat. That tried, and failed, to trouser money from the UK. They are in the process of setting up in Slovakia (not Spain, at least as yet) instead. And that is only a R&D facility-how many years away are they from actually producing batteries?
The reason many new businesses choose Slovakia is simple. A highly-educated workforce. Significant Engineering/Manufacturing experience. No Minimum wage. Labour costs about half that of the UK. Land costs about half that of the UK. Which of course means the Slovakian Government don't have to give them as much money.
And, if they were really able to do what they are currently promising, that would be the solution to the problem. But Dr Palmer clearly believes that he is actually not part of the solution. Because, under the current agreement, the Batteries only have to come from the UK or the EU.
When businesses talk about the difficulties of setting up, in the UK or indeed anywhere, what they really mean is how they can get access to grants and help with start-up costs. You know. Taxpayers' money.
Brexit may have caused a great divide among the population.
And its effects are considerable.
But people don't half go overboard, and ascribe all sorts of nonsense to Brexit.
Business goes bust? Brexit. UK got no money? Brexit
But that article above made me laugh out loud.
Politicians lie because of Brexit? No.
Politicians lied before Brexit. They will lie after Brexit. Not because of Brexit. Because they are liars.
I am not going to argue with the above, and dont know much about the history of politics, because I didnt really take much interest in it. Although I can see that the referendum campaigns maybe marked a difference. I think that the average politician would be embarrassed if they were caught lying. They would probably acknowledge the lie, and try to come up with an excuse to show that it wasnt intentional. The Leave campaign continued using a bus throughout, despite the fact that the figure on the side of it was absolutely untrue. Boris seemed to revel in his lies. I am not going through all his lies, but he blatantly lied about the Irish border, and the extra paperwork. They still play video showing the lies he told on the news channels today. He was a complete stranger to the truth. The worrying thing is that despite this, he was still able to win an election in 2019, with a huge majority. I get your point about blaming Brexit for lots of unrelated stuff, but I do think that there may have been a change since the referendum.
Comments
Everyone refers to it as the NI Sea Border, but that is not really the case, isnt it effectively a border around GB?
The Unionists will never be happy, when as far as they are concerned NI is on the wrong side of the border.
There only seem to be three possible solutions, a land border in Ireland, the UK rejoins the SM/CU, or a United Ireland.
Is there another solution?
We dont want a return to violence.
Nobody seems to be facing up to the real problems, or putting forward any solutions.
I appreciate what you are saying, but the longer it goes on the further away we will get.
We will diverge more from the EU creating more friction, as will the ending of all grace periods this year.
We will negotiate more trade deals that we may have to break.
Net migration might hit a million.
So controlling the borders went well.
Growth isnt moving.
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/post-brexit-boom-uk-companies-092356932.html
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/starmer-must-wait-before-breaking-the-brexit-omertà/ar-AA1bzf88?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=f2a66caf672a421694050610a9c6f3ab&ei=8
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technology/uk-too-late-warning-on-brexit-electric-vehicle-battery-rules/ar-AA1bBXYU?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d038b5aa4b8344cbb94434003ebbb196&ei=126
2 Swedish "entrepreneurs", at least 1 of which had previous fraud convictions, set up "Britishvolt". Spent tens of £millions on business plans from external Accountants (EY), sought to raise somewhere between £2-4 Billion (and received £100 million from the UK Govt to start producing their first battery. Which, to the best of me knowledge, still hasn't been done.
Claimed business was worth £1 billion. But investors did not share that faith. Business already sold for £10 million, and original people all long gone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britishvolt
When a Swedish former investment banker refers to the UK as "we" he does not speak for me. And he doesn't speak for the Company he fled from last year.
The deal does need renegotiating. Simply because both the UK and the EU overestimated their ability to attract appropriate investment in this market.
The warnings, made to the Business and Trade Select Committee, came as the Trade Secretary, Kemi Badenoch, said that the UK and the EU will “soon” announce a solution to an impending car tariff deadline.
From next year, 45 per cent of an electric vehicle’s value must be sourced in the UK or Europe to avoid export tariffs of 10 per cent. A lack of local battery production means UK carmakers will have to rely on Chinese, Japanese and South Korean manufacturers.
Intenational car maker Stellantis, which makes Vauxhall, Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen cars, has already publicly warned of “significant job losses” in the UK unless the Brexit deadline deal is renegotiated.
Dr Palmer said the lack of a UK industrial strategy was important. “You wouldn’t invest in a company that didn’t have a corporate plan so if you are an external investor why would you invest in a country that doesn’t have a clear plan about what it wants to do with its automotive sector.”
He said it was difficult when dealing with government on industrial matters. “When dealing with batteries, they point us to go talk to the Advanced Propulsion Centre (APC). Batteries don’t necessarily fit into that sector. Batteries go into cars, vertical take off aircraft and into electrical supply storage.”
Looking at batteries only through the lens of cars was “frankly ridiculous” he said. “You’ve got to look at it in the bigger picture, especially about energy storage, which is mission critical.”
“Funding batteries through the APC in my humble opinion is a mistake. My experience is that it is difficult to get past stage one. My company wanted to come to the UK, we wanted to invest here. We won a trade and industry competition to come here.
“When we got into the system we were told there wasn’t enough money left within the APC. We were fourth of three and the three would take priority for that funding. We were asked to check against other countries and what we found was Spain was better. We were virtually pushed out of the UK. Defeat was claimed from the jaws of victory. Which is crazy.”
Dr Palmer works for a Company called Inobat. That tried, and failed, to trouser money from the UK. They are in the process of setting up in Slovakia (not Spain, at least as yet) instead. And that is only a R&D facility-how many years away are they from actually producing batteries?
The reason many new businesses choose Slovakia is simple. A highly-educated workforce. Significant Engineering/Manufacturing experience. No Minimum wage. Labour costs about half that of the UK. Land costs about half that of the UK. Which of course means the Slovakian Government don't have to give them as much money.
And, if they were really able to do what they are currently promising, that would be the solution to the problem. But Dr Palmer clearly believes that he is actually not part of the solution. Because, under the current agreement, the Batteries only have to come from the UK or the EU.
When businesses talk about the difficulties of setting up, in the UK or indeed anywhere, what they really mean is how they can get access to grants and help with start-up costs. You know. Taxpayers' money.
Because, right now, the EU are looking as bad as the UK on this.
https://uk.yahoo.com/style/labour-renegotiate-brexit-deal-within-114942715.html
https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/jaguar-land-rover-somerset-uk-car-battery-plant-tata-141606439.html
An appropriately named Company. Because they have a long history of helping us wave goodbye to our money.
£500 million gift to them. As well as (reportedly) yet another £300 million to Tata Steel as part of it.
This could be the time when we get real bang for our buck. Or it could be that it is the precursor to a string of future demands for more money.
The triumph of hope over experience.
https://uk.yahoo.com/style/eu-rubbishes-keir-starmer-big-180328467.html
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-heart-government-dishonesty-170009093.html
And its effects are considerable.
But people don't half go overboard, and ascribe all sorts of nonsense to Brexit.
Business goes bust? Brexit.
UK got no money? Brexit
But that article above made me laugh out loud.
Politicians lie because of Brexit? No.
Politicians lied before Brexit. They will lie after Brexit. Not because of Brexit. Because they are liars.
Although I can see that the referendum campaigns maybe marked a difference.
I think that the average politician would be embarrassed if they were caught lying.
They would probably acknowledge the lie, and try to come up with an excuse to show that it wasnt intentional.
The Leave campaign continued using a bus throughout, despite the fact that the figure on the side of it was absolutely untrue.
Boris seemed to revel in his lies.
I am not going through all his lies, but he blatantly lied about the Irish border, and the extra paperwork.
They still play video showing the lies he told on the news channels today.
He was a complete stranger to the truth.
The worrying thing is that despite this, he was still able to win an election in 2019, with a huge majority.
I get your point about blaming Brexit for lots of unrelated stuff, but I do think that there may have been a change since the referendum.
https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/even-farage-says-brexit-failed-060024324.html
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/more-half-voters-now-want-060024954.html