I refrained from bananagate and sausagegate out of respect for the more serious issues.
However, since we joined the EU do YOU think that The UK was treated fairly and even handedly by the EU in relation to how France, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands were treated.
I refrained from bananagate and sausagegate out of respect for the more serious issues.
However, since we joined the EU do YOU think that The UK was treated fairly and even handedly by the EU in relation to how France, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands were treated.
A simple yes or no will suffice.
A truthful answer is that I dont know. I have asked that question on the internet in a number of different ways, and cant find any evidence. Of course you will say that it is true, and maybe back up your story with a source in some pub in Stoke. If you are able to produce some newspaper articles that support what you are saying, then I would be interested to read them. Incidentally the banana story was untrue. You are still banging on about coalmining, despite the fact that we joined the EEC in 1973, and this, Employment in coal mines fell from a peak of 1,191,000 in 1920 to 695,000 in 1956, 247,000 in 1976
When I left the mining industry in 1990 we still had tens of millions of tons of coal that was mineable, cost effective and available. There was also evidence of reserves vast enough to regenerate and maintain the industry.
The subsidy allowed by the EU on Polish, a non EU member, coal then gave a financial justification to claim that these reserves were now uneconomical to exploit, as Polish coal was cheaper to import, and thereby sounded the death knell for some 150,000 still employed in the coal industry and its subsidiary businesses.
That 1 act of betrayal by the EU, with Thatcher's blessing I've no doubt, probably affected more small communities than anything else.
I left school in 1980 with Hem Heath (Trentham Superpit), Holditch, Silverdale Deep, Kempball and Florence all producing.
It may have not been employing the numbers it did in the heyday but still accounted for some 15,000 jobs.
The closure of Silverdale Deep mine in1998, despite increasing production to over 1 million tonnes annually, brought to an end 7 Centuries of mining in Stoke / N.Staffs. Where to this day there remains the largest coal deposits in England. Deposits that will still be there when the gas and oil are gone, deposits that will lie as testimony to the great EU betrayal of the people of Stoke on Trent and North Staffordshire.
So yes, we who can remember the 70's 80's and 90's in this area still bang on because as one of your Countrymen was fond of saying, "I know, because I was there". In fact to quote Phil Collins;-" I was there and I saw what you did. Saw it with my own two eyes. So wipe off that grin, I know where you've been. It's all been a pack of lies".
Oh and guess what happened after the industry went under. That's right Poland, a non EU member, withdrew the subsidy and British industry that was still reliant on coal got stiffed with higher prices with little or no alternative supplier. Another kick in the gonads.
Coal mining in Germany however, seemed immune for some unfathomable reason. We may have all been European but perhaps some Countries were more European than others.
When I left the mining industry in 1990 we still had tens of millions of tons of coal that was mineable, cost effective and available. There was also evidence of reserves vast enough to regenerate and maintain the industry.
The subsidy allowed by the EU on Polish, a non EU member, coal then gave a financial justification to claim that these reserves were now uneconomical to exploit, as Polish coal was cheaper to import, and thereby sounded the death knell for some 150,000 still employed in the coal industry and its subsidiary businesses.
That 1 act of betrayal by the EU, with Thatcher's blessing I've no doubt, probably affected more small communities than anything else.
I left school in 1980 with Hem Heath (Trentham Superpit), Holditch, Silverdale Deep, Kempball and Florence all producing.
It may have not been employing the numbers it did in the heyday but still accounted for some 15,000 jobs.
The closure of Silverdale Deep mine in1998, despite increasing production to over 1 million tonnes annually, brought to an end 7 Centuries of mining in Stoke / N.Staffs. Where to this day there remains the largest coal deposits in England. Deposits that will still be there when the gas and oil are gone, deposits that will lie as testimony to the great EU betrayal of the people of Stoke on Trent and North Staffordshire.
So yes, we who can remember the 70's 80's and 90's in this area still bang on because as one of your Countrymen was fond of saying, "I know, because I was there". In fact to quote Phil Collins;-" I was there and I saw what you did. Saw it with my own two eyes. So wipe off that grin, I know where you've been. It's all been a pack of lies".
Oh and guess what happened after the industry went under. That's right Poland, a non EU member, withdrew the subsidy and British industry that was still reliant on coal got stiffed with higher prices with little or no alternative supplier. Another kick in the gonads.
Coal mining in Germany however, seemed immune for some unfathomable reason. We may have all been European but perhaps some Countries were more European than others.
Alternatively. One of the articles I dug up pointed out that our coal industry has been in decline for 100 years. The article detailing the number of miners employed in the industry, backs that up. We lost just about a million workers between 1920, and 1976. By then we were only 3 years into our EEC membership. So surely we cant blame them. Successive Tory, and Labour Governments closed down pits, in large numbers. The there were the strikes which didnt help.
Another alternative is purely the economics. Margaret Thatcher didnt like the coal industry subsidies. One of the articles I posted quoted a subsidy of £340 million for the year, under Thatcher. So doing away with the subsidy, and importing coal cheaper than we could produce it, may have made complete economic sense to Thatcher. Although an EU conspiracy will be preferable to some.
I also remember the days when everyone had coal fires at home. Those days are long gone.
When I left the mining industry in 1990 we still had tens of millions of tons of coal that was mineable, cost effective and available. There was also evidence of reserves vast enough to regenerate and maintain the industry.
The subsidy allowed by the EU on Polish, a non EU member, coal then gave a financial justification to claim that these reserves were now uneconomical to exploit, as Polish coal was cheaper to import, and thereby sounded the death knell for some 150,000 still employed in the coal industry and its subsidiary businesses.
That 1 act of betrayal by the EU, with Thatcher's blessing I've no doubt, probably affected more small communities than anything else.
I left school in 1980 with Hem Heath (Trentham Superpit), Holditch, Silverdale Deep, Kempball and Florence all producing.
It may have not been employing the numbers it did in the heyday but still accounted for some 15,000 jobs.
The closure of Silverdale Deep mine in1998, despite increasing production to over 1 million tonnes annually, brought to an end 7 Centuries of mining in Stoke / N.Staffs. Where to this day there remains the largest coal deposits in England. Deposits that will still be there when the gas and oil are gone, deposits that will lie as testimony to the great EU betrayal of the people of Stoke on Trent and North Staffordshire.
So yes, we who can remember the 70's 80's and 90's in this area still bang on because as one of your Countrymen was fond of saying, "I know, because I was there". In fact to quote Phil Collins;-" I was there and I saw what you did. Saw it with my own two eyes. So wipe off that grin, I know where you've been. It's all been a pack of lies".
Oh and guess what happened after the industry went under. That's right Poland, a non EU member, withdrew the subsidy and British industry that was still reliant on coal got stiffed with higher prices with little or no alternative supplier. Another kick in the gonads.
Coal mining in Germany however, seemed immune for some unfathomable reason. We may have all been European but perhaps some Countries were more European than others.
The United Kingdom imported 1.82 million U.S. dollars worth of coal from Poland in 2021. Since 2010, UK imports of coal briquettes and similar items have decreased, falling from a peak of 71.9 million U.S. dollars in 2011 to a low of 658,000 U.S. dollars in 2018. UK: imports of coal from Poland 2021 | Statista www.statista.com/statistics/494191/poland-import-value-of-coal-coke-and-briquettes-to-the-uk/
Why are you keen to show figures from after the end of the Coal industry? What we import now, or in 2012, 2018 etc doesn't matter.
When all this began in the late 80's we had been in the EU for almost a decade and a half.
You seem to think that it's all ok because the coal industry had been in decline for many years.
Although none of that should make any difference, whether in for 12 months or 25 years, whether a declining industry or a rising star, it shouldn't matter.
The EU favoured a non member Country over a member state. Regardless of the fact that the industry was declining, it was a fundamentally immoral decision that killed the industry. The EU were fully aware of the impact as were British Coal and the Government.
Whether that industry was already dying does not make a difference, it wasn't in a coma, it wasn't on life support and the EU threw it under the bus.
I don't know what votes for what implementations the EU got in return, I am sure there was a quid pro quo with Thatcher's Tories, but if the EU had done what it should have done instead of swinging Thatcher's axe on her behalf, many thousands would have had another 20 - 30 years of work, pension rights and dignity. F.U the EU
I fervently pray that in another few decades when gas and oil are exhausted, nuclear has all been shutdown and decommissioned and wind and solar can't supply the energy needs, Europe will recall the vast reserves of fuel under Englands green and pleasant and curse that it now prohibitively expensive to mine and therefore forever out of reach.
I wont be around to experience it but trust me I'll be pmsl on some cloud somewhere.
Why are you keen to show figures from after the end of the Coal industry? What we import now, or in 2012, 2018 etc doesn't matter.
Unfortunately the graph showing the extent of our coal imports included the period in question, but also continued to show the period after. Sorry, but I was unable to produce a made to measure one, that only referred to the period that you have referred to.
When all this began in the late 80's we had been in the EU for almost a decade and a half.
We could have joined the European Coal and Steel Community in 1951, but chose not to.
But as the European Coal and Steel Community was forged in 1951, Britain stood on the sidelines; and it declined an invitation to join the six founding nations of the European Economic Community in signing the Treaty of Rome in 1957.
One of the architects of the ECSC, Frenchman Jean Monnet, said: "I never understood why the British did not join. I came to the conclusion that it must have been because it was the price of victory - the illusion that you could maintain what you had, without change."
You seem to think that it's all ok because the coal industry had been in decline for many years.
100.
Although none of that should make any difference, whether in for 12 months or 25 years, whether a declining industry or a rising star, it shouldn't matter.
Obviously it did matter to the Tories.
The EU favoured a non member Country over a member state.
Why do you think they would do this?
Regardless of the fact that the industry was declining, it was a fundamentally immoral decision that killed the industry. The EU were fully aware of the impact as were British Coal and the Government.
Some of the articles I have posted have clearly stated that the Tories didnt like nationalised industries, or subsidising them. They did subsequently privatise it. You wish to ignore the economic logic of doing away with subsidies, in addition to importing cheaper coal. So you are no longer solely blaming the EU. How much blame would you attach to the Tories, and British Coal? You havent produced one article that supports your suspicions about the EU. Not one.
Whether that industry was already dying does not make a difference, it wasn't in a coma, it wasn't on life support and the EU threw it under the bus.
Nothing to do with planned pit closures, strikes, Tories, subsidies, or expensive coal production?
I don't know what votes for what implementations the EU got in return, I am sure there was a quid pro quo with Thatcher's Tories, but if the EU had done what it should have done instead of swinging Thatcher's axe on her behalf, many thousands would have had another 20 - 30 years of work, pension rights and dignity. F.U the EU
So what you are saying is merely supposition? You also wish to ignore any influence our country had within the EU, and any decisions that were made
I fervently pray that in another few decades when gas and oil are exhausted, nuclear has all been shutdown and decommissioned and wind and solar can't supply the energy needs, Europe will recall the vast reserves of fuel under Englands green and pleasant and curse that it now prohibitively expensive to mine and therefore forever out of reach.
More supposition. Despite the fact we are no longer members.
I wont be around to experience it but trust me I'll be pmsl on some cloud somewhere.
Ok for the last time, everything else is irrelevant, immaterial not germane to the argument.
FACT the EU allowed a non member state to vastly subsidise its coal and then, allowed member states to purchase that coal, thus ending Britains coal industry.
That's FACT, it's immutable, regardless of how much smoke filled, coffee house cr4p you want to wrap it up in.
As to why, well some might argue that the EU are just self serving, self promoting and duplicitous.
Ok for the last time, everything else is irrelevant, immaterial not germane to the argument.
Thats convenient.
FACT the EU allowed a non member state to vastly subsidise its coal and then, allowed member states to purchase that coal, thus ending Britains coal industry.
Yet you seem to be the only person aware of this fact. Also convenient.
That's FACT, it's immutable, regardless of how much smoke filled, coffee house cr4p you want to wrap it up in.
You seem to have a lot of facts that you cant back up.
As to why, well some might argue that the EU are just self serving, self promoting and duplicitous.
Or maybe your facts arent actually facts, they are opinions, or at least your opinion. Continually repeating something doesnt make it a fact.
Ok for the last time, everything else is irrelevant, immaterial not germane to the argument.
FACT the EU allowed a non member state to vastly subsidise its coal and then, allowed member states to purchase that coal, thus ending Britains coal industry.
That's FACT, it's immutable, regardless of how much smoke filled, coffee house cr4p you want to wrap it up in.
As to why, well some might argue that the EU are just self serving, self promoting and duplicitous.
The EU were placed in an impossible position in relation to UK coal.
I agree that Coal was in a long-term managed decline, which suddenly changed in the early 1980s.
But what exactly was the EU supposed to do? It's true that Poland (then a non-member) was manipulating the market via a state subsidy. It is equally true that the EEC (as it then was) was entitled to provide protection to its member country via imposing appropriate tariffs on Polish coal.
But the then-UK Govt made it very public that they wanted no such assistance from the EEC. Margaret Thatcher was using this as an opportunity to bash the Unions, in particular Arthur Scargill. She had no interest whatsoever in Miners or their families.
So what exactly was the EEC supposed to do? Overrule a duly elected Member's Govt, and impose sanctions to provide benefits that were not wanted by the UK Govt? Costing all of the EEC extra money for coal in order to support a Member State regardless of whether they wanted that help?
The early demise of British Coal was caused by Thatcher. Not the EEC.
And, in some respects (from a political perspective) she was right. At the 2019 election, 12 MPs elected for Staffordshire. 12 Conservatives.
Ok for the last time, everything else is irrelevant, immaterial not germane to the argument.
FACT the EU allowed a non member state to vastly subsidise its coal and then, allowed member states to purchase that coal, thus ending Britains coal industry.
That's FACT, it's immutable, regardless of how much smoke filled, coffee house cr4p you want to wrap it up in.
As to why, well some might argue that the EU are just self serving, self promoting and duplicitous.
I am assuming that you have never had close ties to Brussels. I am also assuming that you have never been an MEP, or been employed in Brussels in an administrative capacity. I therefore must assume that you learned of these facts through the good old British press. Show me one article, that supports your facts. Just one.
Why would a non member state require the EUs permission to do anything?
Actually, I learned from being a branch secretary of the N.U.M and also serving on the Area Committee and in my capacity there, attending meetings of the National Executive. British press my 4rse.
Quite an experience that. Scargill was total idiot no doubt, lacking vision and nous and without the ability to move tactically within the political scene.
Peter Heathfield (NUM General Sec) on the other hand was shrewd, clever, able to see the validity in compromise and should have been NUM President but stepped aside in 1981 to allow Scargill to take the role.
But that's by the by. History as they say is written by the Victor so it is what it was.
Actually, I learned from being a branch secretary of the N.U.M and also serving on the Area Committee and in my capacity there, attending meetings of the National Executive. British press my 4rse.
He was completely unbiased then?
Quite an experience that. Scargill was total idiot no doubt, lacking vision and nous and without the ability to move tactically within the political scene.
Didnt even have a vote.
Peter Heathfield (NUM General Sec) on the other hand was shrewd, clever, able to see the validity in compromise and should have been NUM President but stepped aside in 1981 to allow Scargill to take the role.
But that's by the by. History as they say is written by the Victor so it is what it was.
Perhaps you could ring him up and ask him why he thinks a non member state would have to ask the EU for permission to do anything at all?
Actually, I learned from being a branch secretary of the N.U.M and also serving on the Area Committee and in my capacity there, attending meetings of the National Executive. British press my 4rse.
Quite an experience that. Scargill was total idiot no doubt, lacking vision and nous and without the ability to move tactically within the political scene.
Peter Heathfield (NUM General Sec) on the other hand was shrewd, clever, able to see the validity in compromise and should have been NUM President but stepped aside in 1981 to allow Scargill to take the role.
But that's by the by. History as they say is written by the Victor so it is what it was.
Actually, I learned from being a branch secretary of the N.U.M and also serving on the Area Committee and in my capacity there, attending meetings of the National Executive. British press my 4rse.
Quite an experience that. Scargill was total idiot no doubt, lacking vision and nous and without the ability to move tactically within the political scene.
Peter Heathfield (NUM General Sec) on the other hand was shrewd, clever, able to see the validity in compromise and should have been NUM President but stepped aside in 1981 to allow Scargill to take the role.
But that's by the by. History as they say is written by the Victor so it is what it was.
I have taken care to read article after article. I have posted numerous articles from reputable sources. All in an effort to stick to facts, and to avoid looking silly.
You on the other hand have made a statement, that you swear is the truth. You have gone on and on, page after page. Assuring any reader that it is a fact, and definitely the truth. All because some bloke told you it was. And a bloke with a vested interest at that. On top of that he has convinced you that the EU can tell non member states what they can and cant do.
When I left the mining industry in 1990 we still had tens of millions of tons of coal that was mineable, cost effective and available. There was also evidence of reserves vast enough to regenerate and maintain the industry.
The subsidy allowed by the EU on Polish, a non EU member, coal then gave a financial justification to claim that these reserves were now uneconomical to exploit, as Polish coal was cheaper to import, and thereby sounded the death knell for some 150,000 still employed in the coal industry and its subsidiary businesses.
That 1 act of betrayal by the EU, with Thatcher's blessing I've no doubt, probably affected more small communities than anything else.
I left school in 1980 with Hem Heath (Trentham Superpit), Holditch, Silverdale Deep, Kempball and Florence all producing.
It may have not been employing the numbers it did in the heyday but still accounted for some 15,000 jobs.
The closure of Silverdale Deep mine in1998, despite increasing production to over 1 million tonnes annually, brought to an end 7 Centuries of mining in Stoke / N.Staffs. Where to this day there remains the largest coal deposits in England. Deposits that will still be there when the gas and oil are gone, deposits that will lie as testimony to the great EU betrayal of the people of Stoke on Trent and North Staffordshire.
So yes, we who can remember the 70's 80's and 90's in this area still bang on because as one of your Countrymen was fond of saying, "I know, because I was there". In fact to quote Phil Collins;-" I was there and I saw what you did. Saw it with my own two eyes. So wipe off that grin, I know where you've been. It's all been a pack of lies".
Oh and guess what happened after the industry went under. That's right Poland, a non EU member, withdrew the subsidy and British industry that was still reliant on coal got stiffed with higher prices with little or no alternative supplier. Another kick in the gonads.
Coal mining in Germany however, seemed immune for some unfathomable reason. We may have all been European but perhaps some Countries were more European than others.
Alternatively. One of the articles I dug up pointed out that our coal industry has been in decline for 100 years. The article detailing the number of miners employed in the industry, backs that up. We lost just about a million workers between 1920, and 1976. By then we were only 3 years into our EEC membership. So surely we cant blame them. Successive Tory, and Labour Governments closed down pits, in large numbers. The there were the strikes which didnt help.
Another alternative is purely the economics. Margaret Thatcher didnt like the coal industry subsidies. One of the articles I posted quoted a subsidy of £340 million for the year, under Thatcher. So doing away with the subsidy, and importing coal cheaper than we could produce it, may have made complete economic sense to Thatcher. Although an EU conspiracy will be preferable to some.
I also remember the days when everyone had coal fires at home. Those days are long gone.
The reason I posted this was that you maintained that Germanys coal mining was unaffected.
And secondly because of the graph that you criticised for covering the wrong period. Had you looked at it, you would have discovered the possible extent of your Polish coal conspiracy. The graph shows a comparison between coal production in this country, and the amount we imported on a year by year basis. If you hover your cursor over the import (green) line, it tells you how much we produced and imported each year. This covers the period you are referring to. So for instance, In 1970 we produced 147 million tonnes, and imported 79,000. These are total imports, which might have included some from Poland.
Ok for the last time, everything else is irrelevant, immaterial not germane to the argument.
FACT the EU allowed a non member state to vastly subsidise its coal and then, allowed member states to purchase that coal, thus ending Britains coal industry.
That's FACT, it's immutable, regardless of how much smoke filled, coffee house cr4p you want to wrap it up in.
As to why, well some might argue that the EU are just self serving, self promoting and duplicitous.
Was it the EU, or the Poles that forced the UK Government into buying this coal?
Actually, I learned from being a branch secretary of the N.U.M and also serving on the Area Committee and in my capacity there, attending meetings of the National Executive. British press my 4rse.
Quite an experience that. Scargill was total idiot no doubt, lacking vision and nous and without the ability to move tactically within the political scene.
Peter Heathfield (NUM General Sec) on the other hand was shrewd, clever, able to see the validity in compromise and should have been NUM President but stepped aside in 1981 to allow Scargill to take the role.
But that's by the by. History as they say is written by the Victor so it is what it was.
Who do you think might have told him?
Tony I was that branch sec. You asked where I learned it. I told you I was a branch secretary with the NUM, I served on the area committee and my responsibilities on the area committee meant that I attended meetings of The National Executive.
Do you think that reps from B.C management and the Government were never at those meetings.
It's not as you seem to think a case of heard it from a bloke who was told by a bloke etc.
Actually, I learned from being a branch secretary of the N.U.M and also serving on the Area Committee and in my capacity there, attending meetings of the National Executive. British press my 4rse.
Quite an experience that. Scargill was total idiot no doubt, lacking vision and nous and without the ability to move tactically within the political scene.
Peter Heathfield (NUM General Sec) on the other hand was shrewd, clever, able to see the validity in compromise and should have been NUM President but stepped aside in 1981 to allow Scargill to take the role.
But that's by the by. History as they say is written by the Victor so it is what it was.
Who do you think might have told him?
Tony I was that branch sec. You asked where I learned it. I told you I was a branch secretary with the NUM, I served on the area committee and my responsibilities on the area committee meant that I attended meetings of The National Executive.
Do you think that reps from B.C management and the Government were never at those meetings.
It's not as you seem to think a case of heard it from a bloke who was told by a bloke etc.
Sorry if that was your understanding.
I was just interested in the truth. I couldnt understand why if what you were saying was true, that it wasnt reported in the press. There is little our press enjoys more than knocking the EU.
Comments
However, since we joined the EU do YOU think that The UK was treated fairly and even handedly by the EU in relation to how France, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands were treated.
A simple yes or no will suffice.
I have asked that question on the internet in a number of different ways, and cant find any evidence.
Of course you will say that it is true, and maybe back up your story with a source in some pub in Stoke.
If you are able to produce some newspaper articles that support what you are saying, then I would be interested to read them.
Incidentally the banana story was untrue.
You are still banging on about coalmining, despite the fact that we joined the EEC in 1973, and this,
Employment in coal mines fell from a peak of 1,191,000 in 1920 to 695,000 in 1956, 247,000 in 1976
The subsidy allowed by the EU on Polish, a non EU member, coal then gave a financial justification to claim that these reserves were now uneconomical to exploit, as Polish coal was cheaper to import, and thereby sounded the death knell for some 150,000 still employed in the coal industry and its subsidiary businesses.
That 1 act of betrayal by the EU, with Thatcher's blessing I've no doubt, probably affected more small communities than anything else.
I left school in 1980 with Hem Heath (Trentham Superpit), Holditch, Silverdale Deep, Kempball and Florence all producing.
It may have not been employing the numbers it did in the heyday but still accounted for some 15,000 jobs.
The closure of Silverdale Deep mine in1998, despite increasing production to over 1 million tonnes annually, brought to an end 7 Centuries of mining in Stoke / N.Staffs. Where to this day there remains the largest coal deposits in England. Deposits that will still be there when the gas and oil are gone, deposits that will lie as testimony to the great EU betrayal of the people of Stoke on Trent and North Staffordshire.
So yes, we who can remember the 70's 80's and 90's in this area still bang on because as one of your Countrymen was fond of saying, "I know, because I was there". In fact to quote Phil Collins;-" I was there and I saw what you did. Saw it with my own two eyes. So wipe off that grin, I know where you've been. It's all been a pack of lies".
Oh and guess what happened after the industry went under. That's right Poland, a non EU member, withdrew the subsidy and British industry that was still reliant on coal got stiffed with higher prices with little or no alternative supplier. Another kick in the gonads.
Coal mining in Germany however, seemed immune for some unfathomable reason. We may have all been European but perhaps some Countries were more European than others.
One of the articles I dug up pointed out that our coal industry has been in decline for 100 years.
The article detailing the number of miners employed in the industry, backs that up.
We lost just about a million workers between 1920, and 1976.
By then we were only 3 years into our EEC membership.
So surely we cant blame them.
Successive Tory, and Labour Governments closed down pits, in large numbers.
The there were the strikes which didnt help.
Another alternative is purely the economics.
Margaret Thatcher didnt like the coal industry subsidies.
One of the articles I posted quoted a subsidy of £340 million for the year, under Thatcher.
So doing away with the subsidy, and importing coal cheaper than we could produce it, may have made complete economic sense to Thatcher.
Although an EU conspiracy will be preferable to some.
I also remember the days when everyone had coal fires at home.
Those days are long gone.
There is an article below that includes a chart showing a comparison between coal production, and imports.
I thought it was illuminating.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/coal-output-uk-tonnes
It's Lights Out at Germany's Last Coal Mine
December 21, 2018 8:56 AM EST
https://time.com/longform/germany-coal-mine/
UK: imports of coal from Poland 2021 | Statista
www.statista.com/statistics/494191/poland-import-value-of-coal-coke-and-briquettes-to-the-uk/
When all this began in the late 80's we had been in the EU for almost a decade and a half.
You seem to think that it's all ok because the coal industry had been in decline for many years.
Although none of that should make any difference, whether in for 12 months or 25 years, whether a declining industry or a rising star, it shouldn't matter.
The EU favoured a non member Country over a member state. Regardless of the fact that the industry was declining, it was a fundamentally immoral decision that killed the industry. The EU were fully aware of the impact as were British Coal and the Government.
Whether that industry was already dying does not make a difference, it wasn't in a coma, it wasn't on life support and the EU threw it under the bus.
I don't know what votes for what implementations the EU got in return, I am sure there was a quid pro quo with Thatcher's Tories, but if the EU had done what it should have done instead of swinging Thatcher's axe on her behalf, many thousands would have had another 20 - 30 years of work, pension rights and dignity. F.U the EU
I fervently pray that in another few decades when gas and oil are exhausted, nuclear has all been shutdown and decommissioned and wind and solar can't supply the energy needs, Europe will recall the vast reserves of fuel under Englands green and pleasant and curse that it now prohibitively expensive to mine and therefore forever out of reach.
I wont be around to experience it but trust me I'll be pmsl on some cloud somewhere.
FACT the EU allowed a non member state to vastly subsidise its coal and then, allowed member states to purchase that coal, thus ending Britains coal industry.
That's FACT, it's immutable, regardless of how much smoke filled, coffee house cr4p you want to wrap it up in.
As to why, well some might argue that the EU are just self serving, self promoting and duplicitous.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/letter-unionist-parties-must-unequivocally-re-state-their-resolute-opposition-to-the-irish-sea-border/ar-AA1lpqRU?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=4f7f545797a0487aaf7f71086ecb5576&ei=51
Continually repeating something doesnt make it a fact.
I agree that Coal was in a long-term managed decline, which suddenly changed in the early 1980s.
But what exactly was the EU supposed to do? It's true that Poland (then a non-member) was manipulating the market via a state subsidy. It is equally true that the EEC (as it then was) was entitled to provide protection to its member country via imposing appropriate tariffs on Polish coal.
But the then-UK Govt made it very public that they wanted no such assistance from the EEC. Margaret Thatcher was using this as an opportunity to bash the Unions, in particular Arthur Scargill. She had no interest whatsoever in Miners or their families.
So what exactly was the EEC supposed to do? Overrule a duly elected Member's Govt, and impose sanctions to provide benefits that were not wanted by the UK Govt? Costing all of the EEC extra money for coal in order to support a Member State regardless of whether they wanted that help?
The early demise of British Coal was caused by Thatcher. Not the EEC.
And, in some respects (from a political perspective) she was right. At the 2019 election, 12 MPs elected for Staffordshire. 12 Conservatives.
I am also assuming that you have never been an MEP, or been employed in Brussels in an administrative capacity.
I therefore must assume that you learned of these facts through the good old British press.
Show me one article, that supports your facts.
Just one.
Why would a non member state require the EUs permission to do anything?
Quite an experience that. Scargill was total idiot no doubt, lacking vision and nous and without the ability to move tactically within the political scene.
Peter Heathfield (NUM General Sec) on the other hand was shrewd, clever, able to see the validity in compromise and should have been NUM President but stepped aside in 1981 to allow Scargill to take the role.
But that's by the by. History as they say is written by the Victor so it is what it was.
Why the f...k would they?
I have posted numerous articles from reputable sources.
All in an effort to stick to facts, and to avoid looking silly.
You on the other hand have made a statement, that you swear is the truth.
You have gone on and on, page after page.
Assuring any reader that it is a fact, and definitely the truth.
All because some bloke told you it was.
And a bloke with a vested interest at that.
On top of that he has convinced you that the EU can tell non member states what they can and cant do.
Incredible.
And secondly because of the graph that you criticised for covering the wrong period.
Had you looked at it, you would have discovered the possible extent of your Polish coal conspiracy.
The graph shows a comparison between coal production in this country, and the amount we imported on a year by year basis.
If you hover your cursor over the import (green) line, it tells you how much we produced and imported each year.
This covers the period you are referring to.
So for instance,
In 1970 we produced 147 million tonnes, and imported 79,000.
These are total imports, which might have included some from Poland.
Do you think that reps from B.C management and the Government were never at those meetings.
It's not as you seem to think a case of heard it from a bloke who was told by a bloke etc.
Sorry if that was your understanding.
I couldnt understand why if what you were saying was true, that it wasnt reported in the press.
There is little our press enjoys more than knocking the EU.
You need to apologise to the EU.