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20 Brexit Conversations We Wish Would End

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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,197
    edited May 13
    HIGNFY vs Brexit | Have I Got News For You

    https://youtu.be/5qOpOW2YcEM
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,197
    'Entering into very dangerous territory': Kate Hoey warns Ireland will become 'magnet' for migrants





    A Labour peer has said that this week's Supreme Court ruling will make Northern Ireland ‘a magnet’ for migrants and said Brexiteers who opposed the Windsor Framework were ‘literally lied to’.Baroness Kate Hoey said the government had divided their country ‘at the behest of a foreign power’ as she warned about the 'dangerous' implications of a land border for people between Northern Ireland and the Republic.Speaking on GB News Baroness Kate Hoey said:“I think the judgment is really significant for the future of the United Kingdom. We have a trade border already, which has been put in and that was meant to be the end of it all. We all opposed it, and it is dividing, without doubt, the United Kingdom.“But this now is basically introducing a people border. So how do we know that they're not going to suddenly decide, well, the only way we're going to stop people leaving to come to Northern Ireland is to produce your passport?“As I've said, over and over again, and I've raised this in the House of Lords we were literally lied to.“Some of the points that were made were, ‘this cannot happen, it's on the face of the bill. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. We will have one United Kingdom immigration law.’“And now we've seen it. Of course, the government will appeal this, and I presume it will go to the Supreme Court, but I would be very surprised if the Supreme Court takes a different view. Because everyone who understood it and read about Article Two of the protocol knew that this could not apply.“I would have thought any government whether it's this government or the next government, which is likely to be a Labour government, would have to be very, very careful about the effects on the Belfast Good Friday Agreement of actually saying to people living in Northern Ireland, part of the United Kingdom, that they are going to have to show something that proves they are who they are when we're living in one country.“What other government in the world, what other country in the world would have divided their country at the behest of a foreign power, the European Union?“It is absolutely outrageous and every week, something new happens that shows just how much we were lied to.“And people understand this and any introduction of anything that divides even more the people from Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom, our country, I'm afraid will be met with much stronger views and anger than there have been.“The Republic of Ireland, just a few weeks ago, were suggesting because they said that 80% of all their illegal immigrants were coming from Northern Ireland, because they were worried about being sent to Rwanda, were saying we'll have to have checks. “And yet they want to put checks on a tiny amount of trade that goes into the EU via Northern Ireland! Absolutely scandalous.“And tomorrow in the House of Lords, we're going to have the third reading of banning animal exports, again, not applying to Northern Ireland, because we've been left under European Union law. And I think all those people who voted to leave the European Union, including those in Northern Ireland, yes, admittedly not a majority, need to realize that they haven't actually left the European Union in Northern Ireland.“It's almost as if the Foreign Office has once again done a little deal with the Irish government. That’s a slightly cynical approach and probably not true. But there is this feeling all the time that our own government, our British government, actually doesn't stand up for the Union. I mean, what is their job if their first job is not to actually support the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?“I genuinely feel that if Boris Johnson had stayed, he knew, and he told me himself, he knew what they were doing was to get Brexit done, and I actually believe he would not have entered into these further agreements that have just made things so much worse.“No other country would allow these thousands of people that are coming in illegally to happen.“Particularly the Law of the Sea, there is a rule that they should be taken back. We're paying France millions of pounds. What are we giving France the money for? [Returning people]is really what should have happened, but ultimately, we can't go on the way this is happening.“Northern Ireland is going to be a magnet for people to come over and I just would warn any government who's thinking of putting in checks on people, they are entering into a very dangerous territory.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/entering-into-very-dangerous-territory-kate-hoey-warns-ireland-will-become-magnet-for-migrants/vi-BB1mn9c9?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=348785ac140043b4810f427b78d87103&ei=20

    If this pushes migrants into Ireland it means they're not our problem anymore!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZDSoubN8z4

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    TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,437
    Objection. Misleading Your Honor.

    The people who voted Brexit are Brexiteers not the Tory Party, many of whom were against Brexit.

    The headline would imp[y that people like me are blaming Brexit for our woes. Not true, not so.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,197

    Objection. Misleading Your Honor.

    The people who voted Brexit are Brexiteers not the Tory Party, many of whom were against Brexit.

    The headline would imp[y that people like me are blaming Brexit for our woes. Not true, not so.

    Not sure you actually read the article.
    It was full of quotes from Tory Brexiteers.
    The most senior of which was Mr Sunak, their leader, head spokesperson, and our PM.
    Its hard to get more Leave than Boris Johnson, Kemi Badenoch, Jacob Rees-Mogg, and Bernard Jenkin.
    Other contributors included The Bank of England, and The Chamber of Commerce,
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    TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,437
    Yes I read it. Not sure you read my post in relation to the article. I was pointing out that the headline was claiming it was representative of Brexiteers

    They are not the 52% who voted us out are they. They are not representative of your average Brexit voter and therefore their opinions matter less than spit.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,197

    Yes I read it. Not sure you read my post in relation to the article. I was pointing out that the headline was claiming it was representative of Brexiteers

    They are not the 52% who voted us out are they. They are not representative of your average Brexit voter and therefore their opinions matter less than spit.

    First off it is a "voices" article so it is an opinion piece.
    Secondly it was written by a prominent remainer.
    Although I do think that he makes a valid point, I dont think he is referring to your average Leave voter.
    His point is about prominent Leave voting Tories.
    I think that he is referring to the time of the referendum, until fairly recently.
    It was impossible to get any prominent Brexiteer politician to admit that there were any possible down sides to Brexit.
    His article illustrates that some of the most prominent of them are not only prepared to admit that there are downsides, they have gone a step further and are actually blaming Brexit for some of our predicaments.
    This represents a massive change.
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,346
    Brexit is still something that polarises opinion. We've either "got our country back" or we are all doomed.

    Whereas the reality is rather different. It is neither the greatest thing since sliced bread. Or the worst thing since sliced bread. This is my take on what has happened as a result of Brexit so far.

    1. Brexit has caused an economic hit to the UK. It is difficult to ascertain how much-simply because the pandemic and Ukraine have caused a blurring effect as to the true amount. But there has definitely been an effect

    2. This Govt has desperately been trying to pretend there are economic benefits to Brexit. There are not. And trying to hoodwink us to the contrary is rather sad

    3. We have a long history of not trusting Continental Europe. And, frankly, Continental Europe has a long history of not trusting us. That is why the EEC spent 20 years refusing to allow us in. And why we spent 40 years arguing about pretty much everything while we were in. Just like the last 7 years while we are not in

    4. We need to get away with this obsession that everything that goes wrong (or right) is due to Brexit. Businesses fail because they fail to adapt to ever-changing trading conditions-not Brexit. We would have exactly the same Immigration problems

    5. Brexit was an opportunity to run things ourselves, rather than hiding behind Europe. Our current Govt has made a terrible job of running an Independent nation. That doesn't make Brexit good-or bad. Just means that this Govt is terrible

    6. Net migration has increased massively. But not due to the small boats. Due to the hundreds of thousands waved in to study. I hear Universities claiming they need these students. Why? They survived up until about 5 years ago without tens of thousands of extra foreign students. So why can they not now? And why should 200 or so Universities be running our entire Immigration policy?
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,197
    Essexphil said:

    Brexit is still something that polarises opinion. We've either "got our country back" or we are all doomed.

    I am sure this is true, but it has probably lessened as time has gone on.
    Maybe Brexit just highlighted divisions that already existed.
    I have accepted the fact that we have left.
    There is no option, unless you happen to be a couple of sadwishes short of a picnic.
    I also dont think we will be going back anytime soon.
    Although I am interested in how it unfolds.


    Whereas the reality is rather different. It is neither the greatest thing since sliced bread. Or the worst thing since sliced bread. This is my take on what has happened as a result of Brexit so far.

    This government and the next one have a focus on growth, and its importance to the economy.
    It has been a struggle to get any.
    Yet this should not really be a surprise when Brexit may be responsible for a 4 or 5% hit to our GDP.
    We need growth, but we decided to handicap ourselves.


    1. Brexit has caused an economic hit to the UK. It is difficult to ascertain how much-simply because the pandemic and Ukraine have caused a blurring effect as to the true amount. But there has definitely been an effect

    There has.
    It has made creating growth far more difficult, as our starting point may have been minus 4 or 5%.


    3. This Govt has desperately been trying to pretend there are economic benefits to Brexit. There are not. And trying to hoodwink us to the contrary is rather sad

    It looks like this government will pay the price of losing the trust of the public, at the next general election.

    4. We have a long history of not trusting Continental Europe. And, frankly, Continental Europe has a long history of not trusting us. That is why the EEC spent 20 years refusing to allow us in. And why we spent 40 years arguing about pretty much everything while we were in. Just like the last 7 years while we are not in

    I am sure that this is true.

    5. We need to get away with this obsession that everything that goes wrong (or right) is due to Brexit. Businesses fail because they fail to adapt to ever-changing trading conditions-not Brexit. We would have exactly the same Immigration problems

    I agree that businesses need to adapt.
    Although some businesses, and industries have suffered purely because of Brexit.
    Increased costs because of charges for border checks, and mountains of paperwork make businesses less competetive.
    You cant always pass on increased costs to your customers, without losing at least some of them.
    I listened to a farming report the other night, they are not happy.
    Neither are our fishermen, our car industry, or musicians, to name but a few.
    I am not usually that sympathetic to farmers.
    When I was growing up, I thought farmers were people that drove Range Rovers, and moaned about not having any money.
    Although those that appeared in the report did seem to have a good case.



    6. Brexit was an opportunity to run things ourselves, rather than hiding behind Europe. Our current Govt has made a terrible job of running an Independent nation. That doesn't make Brexit good-or bad. Just means that this Govt is terrible

    Brexit on top of the governments incompetence has just made things worse.

    7. Net migration has increased massively. But not due to the small boats. Due to the hundreds of thousands waved in to study. I hear Universities claiming they need these students. Why? They survived up until about 5 years ago without tens of thousands of extra foreign students. So why can they not now? And why should 200 or so Universities be running our entire Immigration policy?

    I suppose they have become used to the proceeds of ripping them off.
    There is probably nothing that highlights our governments incompetence, more than how they have operated their immigration policy.


    The Boris rallying cry of getting Brexit done was bu11shit.
    Brexit will never be done.
    We are still unable to implement border checks 4 years after we left, and 8 years after we knew we were leaving.
    They are unable to inform businesses when they will be in a position to do so.
    We have ended up with an internal Border in the UK.
    Who would have thought that?
    Are the Unionists ever likely to be happy with it.
    Did anyone think that when we decided to leave, that only part of the UK would really leave?
    NI has the best of both worlds, and EU laws.
    Sormont gets a vote on the Windsor Framework every 4 years.
    As we diverge from the EU, more negotiations will take place, leading to more rules, more checks, and more costs for business.
    We have done a trade deal with Australia.
    They produce hormone fed beef.
    The EU wont accept it.
    Canada also produce it, and it is apparently one of the issues holding up the deal with them.
    If we ever do a deal with the US, they will want to supply it to us, along with chlorinated chicken etc.
    The EU wont take that either.
    More rules more regulations, more checks, more costs.

    No 10 fails to guarantee keeping ban on hormone-injected beef in Australia trade deal


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hormone-injected-beef-trade-deal-australia-b1851531.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,197
    Essexphil said:

    Brexit is still something that polarises opinion. We've either "got our country back" or we are all doomed.

    Whereas the reality is rather different. It is neither the greatest thing since sliced bread. Or the worst thing since sliced bread. This is my take on what has happened as a result of Brexit so far.

    1. Brexit has caused an economic hit to the UK. It is difficult to ascertain how much-simply because the pandemic and Ukraine have caused a blurring effect as to the true amount. But there has definitely been an effect

    2. This Govt has desperately been trying to pretend there are economic benefits to Brexit. There are not. And trying to hoodwink us to the contrary is rather sad

    3. We have a long history of not trusting Continental Europe. And, frankly, Continental Europe has a long history of not trusting us. That is why the EEC spent 20 years refusing to allow us in. And why we spent 40 years arguing about pretty much everything while we were in. Just like the last 7 years while we are not in

    4. We need to get away with this obsession that everything that goes wrong (or right) is due to Brexit. Businesses fail because they fail to adapt to ever-changing trading conditions-not Brexit. We would have exactly the same Immigration problems

    5. Brexit was an opportunity to run things ourselves, rather than hiding behind Europe. Our current Govt has made a terrible job of running an Independent nation. That doesn't make Brexit good-or bad. Just means that this Govt is terrible

    6. Net migration has increased massively. But not due to the small boats. Due to the hundreds of thousands waved in to study. I hear Universities claiming they need these students. Why? They survived up until about 5 years ago without tens of thousands of extra foreign students. So why can they not now? And why should 200 or so Universities be running our entire Immigration policy?

    Gibraltar chief accuses Brexiteers of wilful ignorance of impact of leaving EU


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/gibraltar-chief-minister-accuses-brexiteers-194256878.html
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,346
    Gibraltar relies almost entirely upon being effectively a tax haven.

    Living in Gibraltar is not currently an option for more than 50% of its workforce, due to the fact that it is horrendously expensive to live in Gibraltar. That is 15-20,000 workers, most of which need to travel to and from Spain every work day.

    Could there be some form of compromise whereby there is a travel agreement that manages to avoid a Schengen arrangement? Possibly. But "compromise" doesn't involve Spain doing our work at their cost.

    But the nonsense being spewed by the Right of the Tory Party is putting the future of Gibraltar at risk.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,197
    Essexphil said:

    Gibraltar relies almost entirely upon being effectively a tax haven.

    Living in Gibraltar is not currently an option for more than 50% of its workforce, due to the fact that it is horrendously expensive to live in Gibraltar. That is 15-20,000 workers, most of which need to travel to and from Spain every work day.

    Could there be some form of compromise whereby there is a travel agreement that manages to avoid a Schengen arrangement? Possibly. But "compromise" doesn't involve Spain doing our work at their cost.

    But the nonsense being spewed by the Right of the Tory Party is putting the future of Gibraltar at risk.

    Principles often seem to get in the way of compromise.
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