In large part, the problems have nothing to do with Brexit. The problems are these:-
1. Our unilateral decision to stop producing/selling traditional cars by 2030 has reduced our options; 2. The US/Far East are offering eye-watering incentives for automotive players to relocate. Which, frankly, I fear we cannot afford to match (and, increasingly, neither can the EU)
In large part, the problems have nothing to do with Brexit. The problems are these:-
1. Our unilateral decision to stop producing/selling traditional cars by 2030 has reduced our options; 2. The US/Far East are offering eye-watering incentives for automotive players to relocate. Which, frankly, I fear we cannot afford to match (and, increasingly, neither can the EU)
Its a shame because it provides good jobs. And we seem to have got quite good at it.
In large part, the problems have nothing to do with Brexit. The problems are these:-
1. Our unilateral decision to stop producing/selling traditional cars by 2030 has reduced our options; 2. The US/Far East are offering eye-watering incentives for automotive players to relocate. Which, frankly, I fear we cannot afford to match (and, increasingly, neither can the EU)
Phil, surely the issues raised by Vauxhall et al re: parts production % and the introduction of tariffs can be laid at the Brexit door? If we were still part of the EU trading arrangements these tariffs wouldn't apply- OR have I missed something? Happy to be put right with facts, thanks
In large part, the problems have nothing to do with Brexit. The problems are these:-
1. Our unilateral decision to stop producing/selling traditional cars by 2030 has reduced our options; 2. The US/Far East are offering eye-watering incentives for automotive players to relocate. Which, frankly, I fear we cannot afford to match (and, increasingly, neither can the EU)
I think that the EU are insisting on all grace periods coming to an end this year. This will create more trade friction. We seem to have done our best to ignore the end of the grace periods that we agreed. Some of the difficulties that we are experiencing are not necessarily down to Brexit, others definitely are, and in some cases Brexit is a contributory factor. Many Brexiteers will see Farages admission that Brexit hasnt worked as a massive kick in the balls. The discussions in the press regarding Brexit seem to be increasing. Therefore I cant help thinking that one of the parties will see an alternative agreement with the EU as an obvious means of creating growth. One obvious solution would be for the whole of the UK joining the CU/SM. This would create growth, a massive topic at the moment, but also do away with the need for the NI border. Therefore making a return to violence, and a united Ireland less likely as well as getting Stormont up and running, and eliminating trade friction. The repercussions would be that a couple of trade deals would have to be binned. Although I am not sure either of the main parties would go that far. Maybe a Labour/Lib Dem coalition would result in a much closer relationship with the EU.
In large part, the problems have nothing to do with Brexit. The problems are these:-
1. Our unilateral decision to stop producing/selling traditional cars by 2030 has reduced our options; 2. The US/Far East are offering eye-watering incentives for automotive players to relocate. Which, frankly, I fear we cannot afford to match (and, increasingly, neither can the EU)
Phil, surely the issues raised by Vauxhall et al re: parts production % and the introduction of tariffs can be laid at the Brexit door? If we were still part of the EU trading arrangements these tariffs wouldn't apply- OR have I missed something? Happy to be put right with facts, thanks
"Happy to be put right with facts"! Come on-you are better than that.
In 1 sense, you are right. For exactly the same reasons that make both sides confident they are right. If we were still in the EU, we would not have to go to the bother of updating trade agreements as they became obsolete. We could just hide behind the EU and blame them instead. And we could look to rely on the EU protecting our Automotive industry. Good luck with that.
Another "fact" is that the comments were not made by Vauxhall. They were made by Stellantis, which owns Vauxhall. Stellantis is a French-Italian conglomerate, dominated by the likes of Citroen, Peugeot and Fiat. Vauxhall, and UK interests, represent about 2% of the group. And Stellantis, like all such conglomerates, is demanding money from various nations (including the UK) in order not to cease/reduce production there. Vauxhall/Opel used to be the European arm of General Motors. It is now a relatively insignificant part of a European operation. Which will inevitably change things-in or out of the EU.
The simple "fact" is that big business looking to set up radical large-scale businesses will go where they get the biggest kickbacks in set-up costs, and biggest profits.
Which is next to never going to be in the UK. In or out of the EU. Simply because we have a set of workers who will often refuse to work for minimum wage, never mind a bowl of rice a day. A legal system where we actually give rights to workers. Similarly, it is not going to be the EU-simply because the economic ties between Member States are far looser than the States in the USA.
Another simple "fact" is that, if a country decides to be economically independent, there are economic costs associated with that. 1 of those costs is keeping on top of changing certain agreements with the EU (and others) as the World changes. As opposed to the Brexiteer notion that Brexit can be "done" in 2016. Trade agreements have to change over time. So-Remainers gave no credit to the sensible agreement between the EU and the UK initially on this. Just like Brexiteers don't accept the ongoing work that is inevitable.
I genuinely do not understand how the UK both wants to be economically independent, and yet believes other people need to sort out its place on the World, economically. I appreciate that we chose to be part of a larger group for 40-odd years. But, we have now left the Band and gone Solo-we need to be responsible for making our own music.
"Vauxhall" would be in exactly the same position in or out of the EU. Brexit will be the excuse. Not the reality. Remember when everyone said Nissan would pull out of the UK the minute we left the EU? And yet-nothing has changed. Nissan care about the bottom line-not whether or not we are in the EU
Trying to blame Brexit for everything that goes wrong in this country is exactly as stupid as when we had a vote in 2016 pretending that everything that was wrong then could be solved by Brexit.
the great puppet show , take a seat our magical screens will make you believe all that you see , gather round gather round , were the kings of illusion we choose what the truth is gather round gather round
People were persuaded to vote for a Brexit that only existed in Dreamland-one perfectly tailored to their own individual wish list.
Equally true that they were not dissuaded by any effective campaigning from Remain-other than a good effort from the political has-been that was Gordon Brown. Project Fear was used, rather than the very real economic difficulties that Brexit was always going to cause. The first time (for example) I realised the real problems with the NI border was from @Haysie As opposed to the politicians whose job was to guide us.
People tend to vote in the now, and for wishing what they haven't got. Economically, Brexit was always going to cause problems in the short-term, and is likely to have a considerable impact on the longer term.
But it is about more than just economics. The current arguments of Brexiteers are nonsense. But in the longer term there may well be real benefits, provided we can manage our role in international trade better than the EU, and can take our individual role on the World stage, as opposed to being subject to the very different EU objectives.
Comments
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/northern-ireland-votes-in-local-elections-with-sinn-fein-set-to-become-the-biggest-party/ar-AA1blHWT?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=f4c53d7d3ce14cd194108b57c1f94c62&ei=172
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/problem-with-the-uk-s-automotive-sector-isn-t-to-do-with-brexit-says-kemi-badenoch/ar-AA1bmgQc?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=f4c53d7d3ce14cd194108b57c1f94c62&ei=141
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/let-me-finish-brexit-row-erupts-on-bbc-qt-as-snp-msp-torn-apart-over-rejoining-eu/ar-AA1bnsdB?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=f4c53d7d3ce14cd194108b57c1f94c62&ei=119
But the SNP woman was by far the worst. Petulant, smug-a Poundland Mhairi Black.
1. Our unilateral decision to stop producing/selling traditional cars by 2030 has reduced our options;
2. The US/Far East are offering eye-watering incentives for automotive players to relocate. Which, frankly, I fear we cannot afford to match (and, increasingly, neither can the EU)
And we seem to have got quite good at it.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/four-in-five-agree-with-nigel-farage-that-brexit-has-failed-you-voted/ar-AA1bqShQ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=cec8e3aa079b47a8af506e8823ea1bb2&ei=6
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/sinn-fein-on-course-to-secure-historic-victory-in-northern-ireland-local-elections/ar-AA1bqobj?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=cec8e3aa079b47a8af506e8823ea1bb2&ei=62
This will create more trade friction.
We seem to have done our best to ignore the end of the grace periods that we agreed.
Some of the difficulties that we are experiencing are not necessarily down to Brexit, others definitely are, and in some cases Brexit is a contributory factor.
Many Brexiteers will see Farages admission that Brexit hasnt worked as a massive kick in the balls.
The discussions in the press regarding Brexit seem to be increasing.
Therefore I cant help thinking that one of the parties will see an alternative agreement with the EU as an obvious means of creating growth.
One obvious solution would be for the whole of the UK joining the CU/SM.
This would create growth, a massive topic at the moment, but also do away with the need for the NI border.
Therefore making a return to violence, and a united Ireland less likely as well as getting Stormont up and running, and eliminating trade friction.
The repercussions would be that a couple of trade deals would have to be binned.
Although I am not sure either of the main parties would go that far.
Maybe a Labour/Lib Dem coalition would result in a much closer relationship with the EU.
In 1 sense, you are right. For exactly the same reasons that make both sides confident they are right. If we were still in the EU, we would not have to go to the bother of updating trade agreements as they became obsolete. We could just hide behind the EU and blame them instead. And we could look to rely on the EU protecting our Automotive industry. Good luck with that.
Another "fact" is that the comments were not made by Vauxhall. They were made by Stellantis, which owns Vauxhall. Stellantis is a French-Italian conglomerate, dominated by the likes of Citroen, Peugeot and Fiat. Vauxhall, and UK interests, represent about 2% of the group. And Stellantis, like all such conglomerates, is demanding money from various nations (including the UK) in order not to cease/reduce production there. Vauxhall/Opel used to be the European arm of General Motors. It is now a relatively insignificant part of a European operation. Which will inevitably change things-in or out of the EU.
The simple "fact" is that big business looking to set up radical large-scale businesses will go where they get the biggest kickbacks in set-up costs, and biggest profits.
Which is next to never going to be in the UK. In or out of the EU. Simply because we have a set of workers who will often refuse to work for minimum wage, never mind a bowl of rice a day. A legal system where we actually give rights to workers. Similarly, it is not going to be the EU-simply because the economic ties between Member States are far looser than the States in the USA.
Another simple "fact" is that, if a country decides to be economically independent, there are economic costs associated with that. 1 of those costs is keeping on top of changing certain agreements with the EU (and others) as the World changes. As opposed to the Brexiteer notion that Brexit can be "done" in 2016. Trade agreements have to change over time. So-Remainers gave no credit to the sensible agreement between the EU and the UK initially on this. Just like Brexiteers don't accept the ongoing work that is inevitable.
I genuinely do not understand how the UK both wants to be economically independent, and yet believes other people need to sort out its place on the World, economically. I appreciate that we chose to be part of a larger group for 40-odd years. But, we have now left the Band and gone Solo-we need to be responsible for making our own music.
"Vauxhall" would be in exactly the same position in or out of the EU. Brexit will be the excuse. Not the reality. Remember when everyone said Nissan would pull out of the UK the minute we left the EU? And yet-nothing has changed. Nissan care about the bottom line-not whether or not we are in the EU
Trying to blame Brexit for everything that goes wrong in this country is exactly as stupid as when we had a vote in 2016 pretending that everything that was wrong then could be solved by Brexit.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/post-brexit-india-deal-could-cut-thousands-of-jobs-in-leave-voting-areas-and-hike-food-prices/ar-AA1blFfn?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=48e25d9647704f4787e25e2bead2ea74&ei=29
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/construction-and-aerospace-join-car-industry-in-calls-for-better-brexit-rules/ar-AA1brIpd?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=52a8165662c04ada94f1c2b8f6e80872&ei=27
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/national/shaun-woodward-says-size-of-sinn-féin-victory-in-northern-ireland-should-be-a-wake-up-call/ar-AA1btHV2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ede624a26f8e48dcbedf6da743537370&ei=28
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/eu-car-group-backs-stellantis-over-post-brexit-trade-rules/ar-AA1bj3UI?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ede624a26f8e48dcbedf6da743537370&ei=24
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/keir-starmer-look-reversing-brexit-162946292.html
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/just-9-of-britons-think-brexit-more-of-a-success-than-failure-poll/ar-AA1bxHvY?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=165cb83a54ad46ec9ad5b926b2b63ac8&ei=7
People were persuaded to vote for a Brexit that only existed in Dreamland-one perfectly tailored to their own individual wish list.
Equally true that they were not dissuaded by any effective campaigning from Remain-other than a good effort from the political has-been that was Gordon Brown. Project Fear was used, rather than the very real economic difficulties that Brexit was always going to cause. The first time (for example) I realised the real problems with the NI border was from @Haysie As opposed to the politicians whose job was to guide us.
People tend to vote in the now, and for wishing what they haven't got. Economically, Brexit was always going to cause problems in the short-term, and is likely to have a considerable impact on the longer term.
But it is about more than just economics. The current arguments of Brexiteers are nonsense. But in the longer term there may well be real benefits, provided we can manage our role in international trade better than the EU, and can take our individual role on the World stage, as opposed to being subject to the very different EU objectives.
It's certainly not happening yet.