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Matt Hancock was ‘like a headless chicken’

HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
edited March 2023 in The Rail

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    The leaked WhatsApp messages that expose how Britain’s elderly were failed on Covid


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/the-leaked-whatsapp-messages-that-expose-how-britain-s-elderly-were-failed-on-covid/ar-AA1846hO?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1e692b7be29f40119bcc3f4430b908c1&ei=34
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Hancock adviser arranged personal test for Jacob Rees-Mogg's child at time of massive shortage


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/hancock-adviser-arranged-personal-test-for-jacob-rees-mogg-s-child-at-time-of-massive-shortage/ar-AA183Yug?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1e692b7be29f40119bcc3f4430b908c1&ei=83
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Matt Hancock rejected Chris Whitty's call to test ALL residents going into English care homes for Covid, while Boris Johnson was 'going quietly crackers' about UK's 'achilles heel' of testing, leaked WhatsApp messages reveal






    Matt Hancock rejected Sir Chris Whitty's call to test all residents going into care homes
    Former Health Secretary Matt Hancock rejected the Chief Medical Officer's call to test all residents going into English care homes for Covid, leaked messages have revealed. Sir Chris Whitty told the pandemic health secretary there should be testing for 'all going into care homes'. But Hancock did not follow the guidance, instead telling advisers it 'muddies the waters', his Whatsapp messages revealed. The Government introduced mandatory testing for people going into care homes from hospital, but not from the community.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11805239/Matt-Hancock-rejected-Sir-Chris-Whittys-call-test-residents-going-care-homes-Covid.html
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  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,669
    edited March 2023
    Think we have to be careful how we interpret this story. Most of it seems to have originated from Isabel Oakeshott who, all else aside, is most certainly not someone to trust under any circumstances. She is - or was - a Presenter on GB News, has close ties to Nigel Farage & Reform UK, & is one of those pesky anti-lockdown fanatics.

    I'm not saying disregard the narrative she is spinning - but I'd trust her about as much as I'd trust a conspiracy theorist, so best treat her stuff with a modicum of common sense.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,775
    edited March 2023
    Tikay10 said:

    Think we have to be careful how we interpret this story. Most of it seems to have originated from Isabel Oakeshott who, all else aside, is most certainly not someone to trust under any circumstances. She is - or was - a Presenter on GB News, has close ties to Nigel Farage & Reform UK, & is one of those pesky anti-lockdown fanatics.

    I'm not saying disregard the narrative she is spinning - but I'd trust her about as much as I'd trust a conspiracy theorist, so best treat her stuff with a modicum of common sense.

    Interesting to note Matt Hancock's response-or, rather, people speaking on his behalf.

    There is no denial in relation to these messages being genuine-just that they are being "taken out of context". On the 1 hand, I am sure that the messages are selected to show Hancock in the worst possible light. On the other, tough ask to persuade people that these messages, while not the whole story, are not very much relevant.
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Tikay10 said:

    Think we have to be careful how we interpret this story. Most of it seems to have originated from Isabel Oakeshott who, all else aside, is most certainly not someone to trust under any circumstances. She is - or was - a Presenter on GB News, has close ties to Nigel Farage & Reform UK, & is one of those pesky anti-lockdown fanatics.

    I'm not saying disregard the narrative she is spinning - but I'd trust her about as much as I'd trust a conspiracy theorist, so best treat her stuff with a modicum of common sense.

    Yeah, also she was going out with Richard Tice, I dont know if that is still the case, and dont really care.
    She was given access to this info by Matt Hancock, as she co-wrote his covid diaries.
    A bit of a blunder.
    The Telegraph are likely to have got lawyers involved prior to publishing the story.
    I dont think they would have published anything that they couldnt back up.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,669
    Essexphil said:

    Tikay10 said:

    Think we have to be careful how we interpret this story. Most of it seems to have originated from Isabel Oakeshott who, all else aside, is most certainly not someone to trust under any circumstances. She is - or was - a Presenter on GB News, has close ties to Nigel Farage & Reform UK, & is one of those pesky anti-lockdown fanatics.

    I'm not saying disregard the narrative she is spinning - but I'd trust her about as much as I'd trust a conspiracy theorist, so best treat her stuff with a modicum of common sense.

    Interesting to note Matt Hancock's response-or, rather, people speaking on his behalf.

    There is no denial in relation to these messages being genuine-just that they are being "taken out of context". On the 1 hand, I am sure that the messages are selected to show Hancock in the worst possible light. On the other, tough ask to persuade people that these messages, while not the whole story, are not very much relevant.
    @Essexphil


    Absolutely.

    It's the easy option to join in the Matt Hancock pile-on, he's been well & truly cancelled, & in some respects he had it coming.

    But I think we should start with the assumptions that the whole COVID thing was unknown territory for everyone, & I genuinely believe he made what he thought were the right decisions with good intent. They were difficult decisions, & it's too easy for those without expert knowledge to finger-point & just say he got it wrong. He may well have got some stuff wrong, but I think we have to start at the basis that he made these decisions with the best intent, in what was a horribly difficult situation.

    I don't have ANY problem at all with bad decisions. It's the intent that matters, and for all his many personal failings, I think we have to start with the assumption that his decisions were made with good intent. It's too easy to finger-point without the full knowledge of the whole COVID emergency

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  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,669
    edited March 2023
    HAYSIE said:

    Tikay10 said:

    Think we have to be careful how we interpret this story. Most of it seems to have originated from Isabel Oakeshott who, all else aside, is most certainly not someone to trust under any circumstances. She is - or was - a Presenter on GB News, has close ties to Nigel Farage & Reform UK, & is one of those pesky anti-lockdown fanatics.

    I'm not saying disregard the narrative she is spinning - but I'd trust her about as much as I'd trust a conspiracy theorist, so best treat her stuff with a modicum of common sense.

    Yeah, also she was going out with Richard Tice, I dont know if that is still the case, and dont really care.
    She was given access to this info by Matt Hancock, as she co-wrote his covid diaries.
    A bit of a blunder.
    The Telegraph are likely to have got lawyers involved prior to publishing the story.
    I dont think they would have published anything that they couldn't back up.

    Agreed, but that does not mean they have published stuff without the full context, with the revelations cherry-picked to suit the narrative.

    After all, "Minister makes some correct decisions" is never going to make a headline, is it?

    For balance, if he's ignored advice from a highly-regarded & learned expert life Prof Whitty, then he'd need to show good reason. None of us in the lay world have the knowledge Prof Whitty had, & he's widely trusted.
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Tikay10 said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Tikay10 said:

    Think we have to be careful how we interpret this story. Most of it seems to have originated from Isabel Oakeshott who, all else aside, is most certainly not someone to trust under any circumstances. She is - or was - a Presenter on GB News, has close ties to Nigel Farage & Reform UK, & is one of those pesky anti-lockdown fanatics.

    I'm not saying disregard the narrative she is spinning - but I'd trust her about as much as I'd trust a conspiracy theorist, so best treat her stuff with a modicum of common sense.

    Yeah, also she was going out with Richard Tice, I dont know if that is still the case, and dont really care.
    She was given access to this info by Matt Hancock, as she co-wrote his covid diaries.
    A bit of a blunder.
    The Telegraph are likely to have got lawyers involved prior to publishing the story.
    I dont think they would have published anything that they couldn't back up.

    Agreed, but that does not mean they have published stuff without the full context, with the revelations cherry-picked to suit the narrative.

    After all, "Minister makes some correct decisions" is never going to make a headline, is it?

    For balance, if he's ignored advice from a highly-regarded & learned expert life Prof Whitty, then he'd need to show good reason. None of us in the lay world have the knowledge Prof Whitty had, & he's widely trusted.
    It does raise the question of why would you employ experts if you intend to ignore their advice.
    Do you need context, if Chris Whitty offers specific advice, and Hancock ignores it?
    The result of which was disastrous.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,775
    edited March 2023
    Tikay10 said:

    Essexphil said:

    Tikay10 said:

    Think we have to be careful how we interpret this story. Most of it seems to have originated from Isabel Oakeshott who, all else aside, is most certainly not someone to trust under any circumstances. She is - or was - a Presenter on GB News, has close ties to Nigel Farage & Reform UK, & is one of those pesky anti-lockdown fanatics.

    I'm not saying disregard the narrative she is spinning - but I'd trust her about as much as I'd trust a conspiracy theorist, so best treat her stuff with a modicum of common sense.

    Interesting to note Matt Hancock's response-or, rather, people speaking on his behalf.

    There is no denial in relation to these messages being genuine-just that they are being "taken out of context". On the 1 hand, I am sure that the messages are selected to show Hancock in the worst possible light. On the other, tough ask to persuade people that these messages, while not the whole story, are not very much relevant.
    @Essexphil


    Absolutely.

    It's the easy option to join in the Matt Hancock pile-on, he's been well & truly cancelled, & in some respects he had it coming.

    But I think we should start with the assumptions that the whole COVID thing was unknown territory for everyone, & I genuinely believe he made what he thought were the right decisions with good intent. They were difficult decisions, & it's too easy for those without expert knowledge to finger-point & just say he got it wrong. He may well have got some stuff wrong, but I think we have to start at the basis that he made these decisions with the best intent, in what was a horribly difficult situation.

    I don't have ANY problem at all with bad decisions. It's the intent that matters, and for all his many personal failings, I think we have to start with the assumption that his decisions were made with good intent. It's too easy to finger-point without the full knowledge of the whole COVID emergency

    Agree with pretty much all of that.

    I don't have any problems with bad decisions. Mistakes were always going to be made. However, for all the fact that original decisions may have been, with hindsight, bad decisions, is rather different from lying about them immediately afterwards.

    The trouble with wide-ranging inquests into Government performance is that they are massive and take 10 years to actually provide any answers.

    For me, most of the soul-searching should be done internally. With 2 rather obvious exceptions:-

    1. Treatment of people in Care Homes (for example discharge from hospital/cleaners working in multiple care homes)
    2. Tory Boys ignoring the tendering system and giving multi-million pound contracts to their mates, who mostly seemed to have no experience whatsoever

    Matt Hancock is a contemptible little man. Who sought to rewrite history to make himself look better.

    PS. Isabel Oakeshott. Ex-Gordonstoun. Middle name is Euphemia :)

    Long history of dropping people right in it-from Chris Huhne's driving convictions, Cameron's mythical pig incident, Kim Darroch, as well as Matt Hancock. She appears to specialise in dropping her clients right in it.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,669

    Yes, Isabel is not exactly the sort of friend we are looking for in life, is she?
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    The Telegraph are claiming to have over 100,000 messages from this period.
    Nobody is denying their authenticity.
    Loads more to be published.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,775
    edited March 2023
    Tikay10 said:


    Yes, Isabel is not exactly the sort of friend we are looking for in life, is she?

    Numbnut Hancock actually gave all these messages to this journalist. Because he wanted her to write something flattering for him in the book she was ghosting for him. So he can hardly deny their authenticity. Quote of the day from Lord Bethell:-

    "I think Isabel is a terrific journalist, she's not a very good friend."
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  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,669

    "I think Isabel is a terrific journalist, she's not a very good friend."


    I heard that on Radio 4 this morning & burst out laughing. Talk about damned with faint praise...
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,775
    edited March 2023
    Tikay10 said:


    "I think Isabel is a terrific journalist, she's not a very good friend."


    I heard that on Radio 4 this morning & burst out laughing. Talk about damned with faint praise...

    Here is the story of how she stitched up her friend, Vicky Pryce, ex-wife of Chris Huhne.

    https://pressgazette.co.uk/publishers/nationals/sunday-times-journalist-isabel-oakeshott-says-she-fulfilled-her-moral-obligation-vicky-pryce/

    Funnily enough, in my former professional life, I was once presented with the exact same set of facts. The only difference being, of course, that I had to set out that I was duty bound to say the lady in question should come clean.

    Of course, I set out in detail what the risks of so doing were. That the person faced prison and financial ruin. The Client chose not to admit to anything, or volunteer any information. And my Client did not go to Prison.

    Quite how this journalist believes that she has not quite shamefully put her own interests ahead of the people seeking her advice beggars belief.

    People shaking hands with this lady should count their fingers afterwards.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,669

    Think we can safely say nobody will ever trust her again.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,775
    Tikay10 said:


    Think we can safely say nobody will ever trust her again.

    We should, certainly. But I don't think we can.

    It wasn't only Vicky Pryce, and forcing the resignation of Chris Huhne (and his imprisonment).

    There was the made up story about Cameron and the pig. The leaking of documents from Darroch. The admission that she had concealed various facts in relation to Arron Banks.

    And Hancock still thought he wasn't being stupid giving her all this stuff...
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    Tikay10 said:


    "I think Isabel is a terrific journalist, she's not a very good friend."


    I heard that on Radio 4 this morning & burst out laughing. Talk about damned with faint praise...

    Here is the story of how she stitched up her friend, Vicky Pryce, ex-wife of Chris Huhne.

    https://pressgazette.co.uk/publishers/nationals/sunday-times-journalist-isabel-oakeshott-says-she-fulfilled-her-moral-obligation-vicky-pryce/

    Funnily enough, in my former professional life, I was once presented with the exact same set of facts. The only difference being, of course, that I had to set out that I was duty bound to say the lady in question should come clean.

    Of course, I set out in detail what the risks of so doing were. That the person faced prison and financial ruin. The Client chose not to admit to anything, or volunteer any information. And my Client did not go to Prison.

    Quite how this journalist believes that she has not quite shamefully put her own interests ahead of the people seeking her advice beggars belief.

    People shaking hands with this lady should count their fingers afterwards.
    That surely makes Hancock stupid for ignoring her previous form.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,775
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Tikay10 said:


    "I think Isabel is a terrific journalist, she's not a very good friend."


    I heard that on Radio 4 this morning & burst out laughing. Talk about damned with faint praise...

    Here is the story of how she stitched up her friend, Vicky Pryce, ex-wife of Chris Huhne.

    https://pressgazette.co.uk/publishers/nationals/sunday-times-journalist-isabel-oakeshott-says-she-fulfilled-her-moral-obligation-vicky-pryce/

    Funnily enough, in my former professional life, I was once presented with the exact same set of facts. The only difference being, of course, that I had to set out that I was duty bound to say the lady in question should come clean.

    Of course, I set out in detail what the risks of so doing were. That the person faced prison and financial ruin. The Client chose not to admit to anything, or volunteer any information. And my Client did not go to Prison.

    Quite how this journalist believes that she has not quite shamefully put her own interests ahead of the people seeking her advice beggars belief.

    People shaking hands with this lady should count their fingers afterwards.
    That surely makes Hancock stupid for ignoring her previous form.
    He clearly had delusions of mediocrity.

    And was educated beyond his intelligence :)
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    edited March 2023
    George Osborne told Hancock bluntly - 'No one thinks testing is going well, Matt'




    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/no-one-thinks-testing-going-224836155.html
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