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Parole.

HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
in The Rail
This is quite an interesting series.
All the prisoners naturally want to say the right things at their interview, as they all obviously want to get out.
I am not sure I would have agreed with the probation officers on every case.
One guy was in for accidentally biting off another guys ear in a fight.
He claimed to have learnt his lesson.
A lesson he hadnt learnt after previously serving a three and a half year sentence for manslaughter, after killing someone else in another fight.
He has a very scary looking girlfriend.
Unfortunately his hearing was postponed for 6 months, as his probation officer was too busy to have done the preparation.
In a number of cases, despite the probation service recommending their release, the prisoner had been recalled to prison in a fairly short space of time.
A very difficult job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-P3SeVsjQY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRsIK00iU8A
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Comments

  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,938
    Just found this as I thought it was some sort of 'Reality Programme' I'm now watching series 4/5 but will now watch the whole of the series from the start.
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    lucy4 said:

    Just found this as I thought it was some sort of 'Reality Programme' I'm now watching series 4/5 but will now watch the whole of the series from the start.

    Definitely worth a watch.
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  • rabdenirorabdeniro Member Posts: 4,434
    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,776
    edited March 2023
    HAYSIE said:

    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
    You might think that. But you would be entirely wrong. It is next to impossible. And it is even more difficult to stop once people are paroled.

    They manage to solve that 1 about 3 years after Brexit is resolved :)
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
    You might think that. But you would be entirely wrong. It is next to impossible. And it is even more difficult to stop once people are paroled.

    They manage to solve that 1 about 3 years after Brexit is resolved :)
    Why do think it is virtually impossible?
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,776
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
    You might think that. But you would be entirely wrong. It is next to impossible. And it is even more difficult to stop once people are paroled.

    They manage to solve that 1 about 3 years after Brexit is resolved :)
    Why do think it is virtually impossible?
    Because it is a problem that all Governments have tried to solve for decades. With zero success. There are hundreds of different ways of accessing hundreds of different drugs. That it would cost £billions even to create a proper system of monitoring after the event. Which no Government has any intention of funding. And, in any event, would only target some (not all) drugs.

    Even without the dramatic falls in spending in these areas, there is no way of solving this problem. It might be possible to stop 1 drug-but it would just be replaced with another.

    Just take alcohol, as an example. You could spend a lot of money ensuring ex-offenders do not go to licensed premises. But supermarkets? Friends/family buying for them? Going round other's houses? Probation Officers are so underfunded they cannot cope now. Never mind a whole load of new rules. Which would only change where the problems arose-not resolve them.
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
    You might think that. But you would be entirely wrong. It is next to impossible. And it is even more difficult to stop once people are paroled.

    They manage to solve that 1 about 3 years after Brexit is resolved :)
    Why do think it is virtually impossible?
    Because it is a problem that all Governments have tried to solve for decades. With zero success. There are hundreds of different ways of accessing hundreds of different drugs. That it would cost £billions even to create a proper system of monitoring after the event. Which no Government has any intention of funding. And, in any event, would only target some (not all) drugs.

    Even without the dramatic falls in spending in these areas, there is no way of solving this problem. It might be possible to stop 1 drug-but it would just be replaced with another.

    Just take alcohol, as an example. You could spend a lot of money ensuring ex-offenders do not go to licensed premises. But supermarkets? Friends/family buying for them? Going round other's houses? Probation Officers are so underfunded they cannot cope now. Never mind a whole load of new rules. Which would only change where the problems arose-not resolve them.
    No, I was thinking just stopping them getting into prisons.
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  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,686
    edited March 2023
    It really annoys me when people accused of offences try and use the influence of drink/drugs as a mitigating factor. My own opinion is that these should be seen as aggravating factors and sentences automatically increased when either are a factor in the commitment of an offence.

    Not a popular opinion I know but as someone who spent 30+ years dealing with the mayhem caused by people off their nuts on drink and drugs, one that should be considered.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,776
    edited March 2023
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
    You might think that. But you would be entirely wrong. It is next to impossible. And it is even more difficult to stop once people are paroled.

    They manage to solve that 1 about 3 years after Brexit is resolved :)
    Why do think it is virtually impossible?
    Because it is a problem that all Governments have tried to solve for decades. With zero success. There are hundreds of different ways of accessing hundreds of different drugs. That it would cost £billions even to create a proper system of monitoring after the event. Which no Government has any intention of funding. And, in any event, would only target some (not all) drugs.

    Even without the dramatic falls in spending in these areas, there is no way of solving this problem. It might be possible to stop 1 drug-but it would just be replaced with another.

    Just take alcohol, as an example. You could spend a lot of money ensuring ex-offenders do not go to licensed premises. But supermarkets? Friends/family buying for them? Going round other's houses? Probation Officers are so underfunded they cannot cope now. Never mind a whole load of new rules. Which would only change where the problems arose-not resolve them.
    No, I was thinking just stopping them getting into prisons.
    Just 1 example. Do you wish to insist that every visitor, including Minors, has intimate rectal searches? Every single visit? Including the 10-year-olds?

    This is a very old article. But it remains true.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-31871602

    Then there is the fun of drone deliveries/throwing stuff over the wall.
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Parole review – how do you decide when it is safe to let a murderer back on the streets?
    Can you tell a reformed criminal when you see one? This fascinating series shows the tricky questions faced by those who must decide the fate of a serial fraudster and a man who kicked a West Ham fan to death


    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/feb/20/parole-review-how-do-you-decide-when-it-is-safe-to-let-a-murderer-back-on-the-streets
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Parole review: Without suffering moral panic, this documentary is a robust defence of a much-maligned system
    In the first of five episodes of the excellent new BBC Two series, we meet two of the prisoners looking to go straight, and quite the characters they are, too


    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/reviews/parole-bbc-two-david-coombs-b2285797.html
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Parole, BBC2, review: A wasted opportunity to examine how life-changing decisions are made


    https://inews.co.uk/culture/television/parole-bbc2-review-board-true-crime-wasted-opportunity-2161837?ico=most_popular
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
    You might think that. But you would be entirely wrong. It is next to impossible. And it is even more difficult to stop once people are paroled.

    They manage to solve that 1 about 3 years after Brexit is resolved :)
    Why do think it is virtually impossible?
    Because it is a problem that all Governments have tried to solve for decades. With zero success. There are hundreds of different ways of accessing hundreds of different drugs. That it would cost £billions even to create a proper system of monitoring after the event. Which no Government has any intention of funding. And, in any event, would only target some (not all) drugs.

    Even without the dramatic falls in spending in these areas, there is no way of solving this problem. It might be possible to stop 1 drug-but it would just be replaced with another.

    Just take alcohol, as an example. You could spend a lot of money ensuring ex-offenders do not go to licensed premises. But supermarkets? Friends/family buying for them? Going round other's houses? Probation Officers are so underfunded they cannot cope now. Never mind a whole load of new rules. Which would only change where the problems arose-not resolve them.
    No, I was thinking just stopping them getting into prisons.
    Just 1 example. Do you wish to insist that every visitor, including Minors, has intimate rectal searches? Every single visit? Including the 10-year-olds?

    Not really.
    I would prefer to see a similar system to that used in the US.
    Where there is no contact between prisoners and visitors.
    There is a partition between them, and they use a phone to communicate.

    This is a very old article. But it remains true.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-31871602

    Then there is the fun of drone deliveries/throwing stuff over the wall.
    We now have the ability to deal with drones around airports, why not prisons?
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    TheEdge949 said:

    It really annoys me when people accused of offences try and use the influence of drink/drugs as a mitigating factor. My own opinion is that these should be seen as aggravating factors and sentences automatically increased when either are a factor in the commitment of an offence.

    Not a popular opinion I know but as someone who spent 30+ years dealing with the mayhem caused by people off their nuts on drink and drugs, one that should be considered.

    Forgetting the mitigation bit.
    If we really want people to get rehabilitated in prison, and not turn to reoffending, then surely it cant make any sense for them to be able to easily access drink and drugs inside.
    One of the guys in the programme was caught with 20 litres of hooch.
    How can that happen?
    Is there any control?
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,776
    edited March 2023
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
    You might think that. But you would be entirely wrong. It is next to impossible. And it is even more difficult to stop once people are paroled.

    They manage to solve that 1 about 3 years after Brexit is resolved :)
    Why do think it is virtually impossible?
    Because it is a problem that all Governments have tried to solve for decades. With zero success. There are hundreds of different ways of accessing hundreds of different drugs. That it would cost £billions even to create a proper system of monitoring after the event. Which no Government has any intention of funding. And, in any event, would only target some (not all) drugs.

    Even without the dramatic falls in spending in these areas, there is no way of solving this problem. It might be possible to stop 1 drug-but it would just be replaced with another.

    Just take alcohol, as an example. You could spend a lot of money ensuring ex-offenders do not go to licensed premises. But supermarkets? Friends/family buying for them? Going round other's houses? Probation Officers are so underfunded they cannot cope now. Never mind a whole load of new rules. Which would only change where the problems arose-not resolve them.
    No, I was thinking just stopping them getting into prisons.
    Just 1 example. Do you wish to insist that every visitor, including Minors, has intimate rectal searches? Every single visit? Including the 10-year-olds?

    Not really.
    I would prefer to see a similar system to that used in the US.
    Where there is no contact between prisoners and visitors.
    There is a partition between them, and they use a phone to communicate.

    This is a very old article. But it remains true.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-31871602

    Then there is the fun of drone deliveries/throwing stuff over the wall.
    We now have the ability to deal with drones around airports, why not prisons?
    You say that "in the US ... there is no contact between prisoners and visitors".

    That is simply not true. In the US there are limited occasions where that may happen (like here). But the general rule is exactly the same as the UK. Even in places known for their harsh rules, like Texas.

    Except on TV, of course.

    In relation to drones. Airports are generally in their own grounds, well away from towns. Rather easier to police. Unlike a lot of prisons-for example HMP Chelmsford is right in the middle of the City.
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
    You might think that. But you would be entirely wrong. It is next to impossible. And it is even more difficult to stop once people are paroled.

    They manage to solve that 1 about 3 years after Brexit is resolved :)
    Why do think it is virtually impossible?
    Because it is a problem that all Governments have tried to solve for decades. With zero success. There are hundreds of different ways of accessing hundreds of different drugs. That it would cost £billions even to create a proper system of monitoring after the event. Which no Government has any intention of funding. And, in any event, would only target some (not all) drugs.

    Even without the dramatic falls in spending in these areas, there is no way of solving this problem. It might be possible to stop 1 drug-but it would just be replaced with another.

    Just take alcohol, as an example. You could spend a lot of money ensuring ex-offenders do not go to licensed premises. But supermarkets? Friends/family buying for them? Going round other's houses? Probation Officers are so underfunded they cannot cope now. Never mind a whole load of new rules. Which would only change where the problems arose-not resolve them.
    No, I was thinking just stopping them getting into prisons.
    Just 1 example. Do you wish to insist that every visitor, including Minors, has intimate rectal searches? Every single visit? Including the 10-year-olds?

    Not really.
    I would prefer to see a similar system to that used in the US.
    Where there is no contact between prisoners and visitors.
    There is a partition between them, and they use a phone to communicate.

    This is a very old article. But it remains true.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-31871602

    Then there is the fun of drone deliveries/throwing stuff over the wall.
    We now have the ability to deal with drones around airports, why not prisons?
    You say that "in the US ... there is no contact between prisoners and visitors".

    That is simply not true. In the US there are limited occasions where that may happen (like here). But the general rule is exactly the same as the UK. Even in places known for their harsh rules, like Texas.

    Except on TV, of course.

    In relation to drones. Airports are generally in their own grounds, well away from towns. Rather easier to police. Unlike a lot of prisons-for example HMP Chelmsford is right in the middle of the City.
    I dont really care whether it is true in real life, or just happens on the telly, if you want to stop visitors smuggling drugs in, that is how you would do it.
    Drones can apparently be disabled, or you could use nets.
    Surely you are not suggesting we are unable in 2023 to put a stop to to drug deliveries via drones.
    As I said earlier one the guys was caught with 20 litres of hooch.
    I dont think that was delivered by drone, or secreted about the person of a visitor.
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
    You might think that. But you would be entirely wrong. It is next to impossible. And it is even more difficult to stop once people are paroled.

    They manage to solve that 1 about 3 years after Brexit is resolved :)
    Why do think it is virtually impossible?
    Because it is a problem that all Governments have tried to solve for decades. With zero success. There are hundreds of different ways of accessing hundreds of different drugs. That it would cost £billions even to create a proper system of monitoring after the event. Which no Government has any intention of funding. And, in any event, would only target some (not all) drugs.

    Even without the dramatic falls in spending in these areas, there is no way of solving this problem. It might be possible to stop 1 drug-but it would just be replaced with another.

    Just take alcohol, as an example. You could spend a lot of money ensuring ex-offenders do not go to licensed premises. But supermarkets? Friends/family buying for them? Going round other's houses? Probation Officers are so underfunded they cannot cope now. Never mind a whole load of new rules. Which would only change where the problems arose-not resolve them.
    No, I was thinking just stopping them getting into prisons.
    Just 1 example. Do you wish to insist that every visitor, including Minors, has intimate rectal searches? Every single visit? Including the 10-year-olds?

    Not really.
    I would prefer to see a similar system to that used in the US.
    Where there is no contact between prisoners and visitors.
    There is a partition between them, and they use a phone to communicate.

    This is a very old article. But it remains true.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-31871602

    Then there is the fun of drone deliveries/throwing stuff over the wall.
    We now have the ability to deal with drones around airports, why not prisons?
    You say that "in the US ... there is no contact between prisoners and visitors".

    That is simply not true. In the US there are limited occasions where that may happen (like here). But the general rule is exactly the same as the UK. Even in places known for their harsh rules, like Texas.

    Except on TV, of course.

    In relation to drones. Airports are generally in their own grounds, well away from towns. Rather easier to police. Unlike a lot of prisons-for example HMP Chelmsford is right in the middle of the City.
    Alternatively, another option would be to regularly test them for drugs and alcohol.
    Any that fail would have their sentence increased.
    You may wish to offer a discount for revealing the source.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,776
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
    You might think that. But you would be entirely wrong. It is next to impossible. And it is even more difficult to stop once people are paroled.

    They manage to solve that 1 about 3 years after Brexit is resolved :)
    Why do think it is virtually impossible?
    Because it is a problem that all Governments have tried to solve for decades. With zero success. There are hundreds of different ways of accessing hundreds of different drugs. That it would cost £billions even to create a proper system of monitoring after the event. Which no Government has any intention of funding. And, in any event, would only target some (not all) drugs.

    Even without the dramatic falls in spending in these areas, there is no way of solving this problem. It might be possible to stop 1 drug-but it would just be replaced with another.

    Just take alcohol, as an example. You could spend a lot of money ensuring ex-offenders do not go to licensed premises. But supermarkets? Friends/family buying for them? Going round other's houses? Probation Officers are so underfunded they cannot cope now. Never mind a whole load of new rules. Which would only change where the problems arose-not resolve them.
    No, I was thinking just stopping them getting into prisons.
    Just 1 example. Do you wish to insist that every visitor, including Minors, has intimate rectal searches? Every single visit? Including the 10-year-olds?

    Not really.
    I would prefer to see a similar system to that used in the US.
    Where there is no contact between prisoners and visitors.
    There is a partition between them, and they use a phone to communicate.

    This is a very old article. But it remains true.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-31871602

    Then there is the fun of drone deliveries/throwing stuff over the wall.
    We now have the ability to deal with drones around airports, why not prisons?
    You say that "in the US ... there is no contact between prisoners and visitors".

    That is simply not true. In the US there are limited occasions where that may happen (like here). But the general rule is exactly the same as the UK. Even in places known for their harsh rules, like Texas.

    Except on TV, of course.

    In relation to drones. Airports are generally in their own grounds, well away from towns. Rather easier to police. Unlike a lot of prisons-for example HMP Chelmsford is right in the middle of the City.
    I dont really care whether it is true in real life, or just happens on the telly, if you want to stop visitors smuggling drugs in, that is how you would do it.
    Drones can apparently be disabled, or you could use nets.
    Surely you are not suggesting we are unable in 2023 to put a stop to to drug deliveries via drones.
    As I said earlier one the guys was caught with 20 litres of hooch.
    I dont think that was delivered by drone, or secreted about the person of a visitor.
    You believe that a lot of complex issues are, in reality, very simple.
    Sorry to have to break it to you, but there are only 2 options:-

    1. The finest specialist minds have collectively all failed to grasp for decades how simple a problem is; or
    2. You do not grasp the complexities
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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    rabdeniro said:

    It's a difficult job, the guy who's hearing was postponed because the PO hadn't prepared properly was a disgrace, yer right about his gal, ah would be more scared of her than him.
    We try to guess who would or wouldn't get parole at the end and we've not had many right so far.

    It is a very difficult job.
    Every prisoner wants to get out.
    Every parole officer wants to avoid an ar5e kicking for each time one of them is recalled.
    This makes the whole process difficult.
    Drink and drugs seemed to play a big part in many of their lives, both inside and outside prison.
    You would think it would be fairly easy to set up a system where prisoners are unable to access alcohol and drugs.

    On the ear biting guy.
    I would find it difficult to believe in his good intentions.
    He has already had a massive result in only having to serve three and a half years for manslaughter.
    Yet after getting out he goes on to bite a guys ear off.
    Hard to say any lessons were learnt.

    People who commit crimes under the influence of drink or drugs seem to be more likely to reoffend unless they can stay off them.
    You might think that. But you would be entirely wrong. It is next to impossible. And it is even more difficult to stop once people are paroled.

    They manage to solve that 1 about 3 years after Brexit is resolved :)
    Why do think it is virtually impossible?
    Because it is a problem that all Governments have tried to solve for decades. With zero success. There are hundreds of different ways of accessing hundreds of different drugs. That it would cost £billions even to create a proper system of monitoring after the event. Which no Government has any intention of funding. And, in any event, would only target some (not all) drugs.

    Even without the dramatic falls in spending in these areas, there is no way of solving this problem. It might be possible to stop 1 drug-but it would just be replaced with another.

    Just take alcohol, as an example. You could spend a lot of money ensuring ex-offenders do not go to licensed premises. But supermarkets? Friends/family buying for them? Going round other's houses? Probation Officers are so underfunded they cannot cope now. Never mind a whole load of new rules. Which would only change where the problems arose-not resolve them.
    No, I was thinking just stopping them getting into prisons.
    Just 1 example. Do you wish to insist that every visitor, including Minors, has intimate rectal searches? Every single visit? Including the 10-year-olds?

    Not really.
    I would prefer to see a similar system to that used in the US.
    Where there is no contact between prisoners and visitors.
    There is a partition between them, and they use a phone to communicate.

    This is a very old article. But it remains true.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-31871602

    Then there is the fun of drone deliveries/throwing stuff over the wall.
    We now have the ability to deal with drones around airports, why not prisons?
    You say that "in the US ... there is no contact between prisoners and visitors".

    That is simply not true. In the US there are limited occasions where that may happen (like here). But the general rule is exactly the same as the UK. Even in places known for their harsh rules, like Texas.

    Except on TV, of course.

    In relation to drones. Airports are generally in their own grounds, well away from towns. Rather easier to police. Unlike a lot of prisons-for example HMP Chelmsford is right in the middle of the City.
    I dont really care whether it is true in real life, or just happens on the telly, if you want to stop visitors smuggling drugs in, that is how you would do it.
    Drones can apparently be disabled, or you could use nets.
    Surely you are not suggesting we are unable in 2023 to put a stop to to drug deliveries via drones.
    As I said earlier one the guys was caught with 20 litres of hooch.
    I dont think that was delivered by drone, or secreted about the person of a visitor.
    You believe that a lot of complex issues are, in reality, very simple.
    Sorry to have to break it to you, but there are only 2 options:-

    1. The finest specialist minds have collectively all failed to grasp for decades how simple a problem is; or
    2. You do not grasp the complexities
    However much you try to complicate this, if there is absolutely no contact between a prisoner and their visitors, drug smuggling by visitors stops.
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