sit and go issue

Williams12

if u see 2 players helping each other in
a sit n go kind of stupidly folding in the middle of a hand
without a raise to share chips between them is that legal?

Tikay10

@Williams12

Good morning.

More information is needed before anyone can reply properly to that.

DYM's are tactically very different from cash games or MTT's. In a DYM there are all sorts of weird situations where normally we would contest the pot, but sometimes it is correct to fold, even if we have a premium hand which we think is almost certainly winning. And yes, there are also situations where players are colluding. It's hard to prove though, so good evidence is needed.

PS - pleased to see you won your last two DYM's, one late last night, the other early this morning.

Williams12

Tikay10 said:

@Williams12

Good morning.

More information is needed before anyone can reply properly to that.

DYM's are tactically very different from cash games or MTT's. In a DYM there are all sorts of weird situations where normally we would contest the pot, but sometimes it is correct to fold, even if we have a premium hand which we think is almost certainly winning. And yes, there are also situations where players are colluding. It's hard to prove though, so good evidence is needed.

PS - pleased to see you won your last two DYM's, one late last night, the other early this morning.

so look at this hand there a bet call action and then guy who made the bet just folds in the middle

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Williams12	Small blind		50.00	50.00	4100.00
leonard02	Big blind		100.00	150.00	1332.50
	Your hole cards	5 6
keckers16	Raise		200.00	350.00	3322.50
SchMicheal	Fold
Reecetin	Call		200.00	550.00	1015.00
Williams12	Fold
leonard02	Fold
Flop
		Q 2 2
keckers16	Check
Reecetin	Check
Turn
		8
keckers16	Bet		550.00	1100.00	2772.50
Reecetin	Call		550.00	1650.00	465.00
River
		6
keckers16	Fold
Reecetin	Muck
Reecetin	Win		1650.00		2115.00

Tikay10

@Williams12

There are all sorts of possible inferences we can draw from that, most of them (but not all) innocent.

In my personal view, we can never make a judgement of hanky-panky on the evidence of a single hand, we need a whole batch of them. There could be any number of innocent reasons for that play. (& some not so innocent ones).

PS - feel free to report any reasonable suspicions to Customer Care, though again, please don't make judgements on the basis of a single hand.

Angela124

Looks like the player was probably on a fishing expidition and missed, knew they were beat and was too embarrassed to show, so just folded thus hiding hand from opponent

Tikay10

Angela124 said:

Looks like the player was probably on a fishing expidition and missed, knew they were beat and was too embarrassed to show, so just folded thus hiding hand from opponent

@Angela124


Yes, that's certainly one of the most obvious explanations.

Bean81

Is this a DYM?

One other explanation is a time out.

I also see beginner players betting turn and open folding rivers against me in cash games. Sometimes when I almost certainly have the losing hand.

Tikay10

Bean81 said:

Is this a DYM?

One other explanation is a time out.

I also see beginner players betting turn and open folding rivers against me in cash games. Sometimes when I almost certainly have the losing hand.

@Bean81


It was a DYM, yes.

Essexphil

It is a given that you cannot infer collusion from one hand. For all the reasons given.

For all that, there remains a strong possibility that that is collusion. And Sky would quickly be able to establish whether that was indeed the case. There are plenty of hidden cards that would support that.

Because it is either truly terrible play by 1 or both. Or a chip dump. Because with the folder's stack size, he has played that as badly as is possible.

Bean81

I would think a chip dump would be more sophisticated than this. I would also think the combined odds of both cashing as a result of this play were not enhcanced. It's therefore probably a time out or a beginner player. As Phil mentions, it's easy enough to prove collusion if this kind of thing happens more than once.

Jac35

Bean81 said:

I would think a chip dump would be more sophisticated than this. I would also think the combined odds of both cashing as a result of this play were not enhcanced. It's therefore probably a time out or a beginner player. As Phil mentions, it's easy enough to prove collusion if this kind of thing happens more than once.

Not sure about the sophistication
The vast majority of people who try and collude are incredibly bad at it

Tikay10

A peruse of the limited info available on Sharky (neither player is Opted In) does not suggest any pattern of the two players regularly sharing DYM tables.

Angela124

It cannot be a timeout @Bean81 as he was first to act and the other player didn't bet

Angela124

I should add I have seen on more occasions I can count a player calling/raising down to the river and folding when first to act when they haven't hit

Bean81

Ah, yes - you are right.

raggy94

Open folding river better play than check/folding if you've got 3h4h and the blinds go up in 5 seconds imo.