how much does a diary count for in law?

Doubleme

So I have heard in numerous different situations and numerous cases that keeping a diary of events and times would be useful for court.

So if I am unhappy with a situation at work and feel I am been mistreated keeping a diary of the events listing what events happened and when would be useful.

If I have a problem with my neighbour or they have a problem with me making too much noise or some other stuff keeping a diary would be evidence in court.

Here is the thing I don't get though you can write anything in a diary and just make stuff up so why is this valid in court and just how valid is it?

I previously (not related to current boss) have had situations from boses or things said which If I could prove I am pretty sure I could sue. However I was not recording at the time I mean I do not go around recording my life.

would just logging these events in a diary really count as evidence if so I could just make a whole load of stuff up and get compensation in bad faith (is that the right term for it I dunno)

If this holds my neighbour could make up anything about me and if its in the diary I could be prosercuted.

This is not me I am not someone who would lie to get compensation or the likes but it worries me that others could and this would count as water tight evidence or am I missing something here?

Jac35

I think you’re missing something

Essexphil

Keeping a diary can have a positive effect, but it is important not to overstate this.

It is preferable to be able to say "This is my understanding, because I made a note at the time" rather than just winging it. It does not prove what you are saying is correct, just that this is the reason why you can recollect an event so well, particularly when the enormous delays in the Court system means that there is often more than a year between issuing proceedings and a Court Hearing.

It is often useful in Employment Law matters, particularly if an employer fails to keep proper records.

The slight downside is that any individual keeping these sorts of diaries is usually intent on taking matters further (whether by Court action or Complaint) from the start, and Judges can see that.

There are usually 2 sides to any story-why else would it end up in Court unless both believed they were right?-and keeping records does help to make your version carry more weight. But there are plenty of other factors, such as how believable someone is when giving verbal evidence in chief or coping with cross examination

Although, as a Judge once told me, "In the close cases, I tend to find in favour of the side with fewer grammatical errors"

Tikay10

Essexphil said:

Keeping a diary can have a positive effect, but it is important not to overstate this.

It is preferable to be able to say "This is my understanding, because I made a note at the time" rather than just winging it. It does not prove what you are saying is correct, just that this is the reason why you can recollect an event so well, particularly when the enormous delays in the Court system means that there is often more than a year between issuing proceedings and a Court Hearing.

It is often useful in Employment Law matters, particularly if an employer fails to keep proper records.

The slight downside is that any individual keeping these sorts of diaries is usually intent on taking matters further (whether by Court action or Complaint) from the start, and Judges can see that.

There are usually 2 sides to any story-why else would it end up in Court unless both believed they were right?-and keeping records does help to make your version carry more weight. But there are plenty of other factors, such as how believable someone is when giving verbal evidence in chief or coping with cross examination

Although, as a Judge once told me, "In the close cases, I tend to find in favour of the side with fewer grammatical errors"

Lock him up.

green_beer

never share your diary with anyone, cause they will just have evidence of how insane you actually are and never share your dreams either hahahaha

TheEdge949

The only time I really kept notes etc was on the doors. I insisted all my staff had a pocketbook to record details of incidents where a report would need to be produced. It's easier to be able to refer to details taken at or just after an event rather than try to recollect things hours, days or even weeks later.

It's also useful for seeing how different people can have contrasting views on the same incident or occurance or the way people interpret an action or how a comment is construed.

As far as the workplace goes you gotta understand that sh1t rolls downhill, always has, always will. It doesn't make it right and it's not P.C. but it is what it is.

Doubleme

so the jist of it is I dont get on with my neighbour I dont think that is a secret anymore.

I will keep my own diary of everything as a counter point incase things go that far.

I dont think it will get that far its the neighbour not me, my girlfriend and the all the winnis agree on this point, its a shame that if needed the winnis likely wont be able to testify in court.

on a serious note the guy bangs on the ceiling if there is any noise what so ever. I mean having youtube videos on at moderate volume. he banged on the ceiling yesterday at 3pm because the alexa timer my girlfriend had for the cooker went off it was on volume 7.

the letter you get from the council regarding noise complaints seems to assume guilty until proven innocent and mentions destruction of property CCJs and fines of up to £5000 £20000 or unlimited.

unfortunately I cant really go into detail on the specifics for obvious reasons eg if i list noises that he hasnt listed in his diary or what not and he could link my posts here to me its a negative free roll.

the two incidents mentioned he banged on the ceiling he is vindictive so i know for fact he already listed them.

what I will say though is that surely there is reasonable noises levels I mean we cannot be expected to live like nuns.

in the four years we have lived at the same property no one else has ever complained about us by the tone of the letter from the council you would think we were living like Jesse Pinkman having drugged up raves at all hours of the day. We do not.

people can say others have a right to enjoy their property in peace but surely we have a right to live in our property to a reasonable extent? like it cant be we can never watch tv never have youtube on never talk in anything but a hushed whisper and screw the fact that I paid like £600 for the washing machine and dryer I now need to go to the laundrette every time. meanwhile he can start his diy works at 8am every saturday and sunday and wake us up, like its an unreasonable double standard.

goldon

No need for "Diary" or go to Court just move your bed away from the wall........

Doubleme

goldon said:

No need for "Diary" or go to Court just move your bed away from the wall........

my neighbour lives below me not to the side its how the properties are situated. he complains about everything and anything if we coughed and he heard it this would go in the report. So likely that to would go in the report but unless we can levitate the bed off the ground nothing could do in that regard. Such technology isnt actually futuristic it already exists. but the cost to customize this to get a whole king size bed to levitate would I am assuming be way beyond what I could afford.

Bean81

Do you have carpets? That's normally a typical problem. That and dodgy builders and landlords that don't put in appropriate sound proofing.

Is there a tenants' association, landlord code of conduct or whatever you can refer to? I remember tons of rules like not using the washing machine between 9pm and 7am.

Bean81

To add: you won't have any problems with standard activity between certain hours. Blaring music and dogs that yell and misbehave are typical problems.

TheEdge949

One of the security duties that I undertook was as part of the local councils Night Noise Management Team.

We were sent out to investigate noise complaints received by either the local authority or the Police between 10pm and 3 am.

These ranged from pubs and clubs right down to a complaint about next doors fridge humming. in 95% of cases the complaint was either malicious or unwarranted and in nearly all of the others a quick chat with the occupier was sufficient to rectify the problem.

Only very rarely was further action required and that could only be undertaken after a series of monitoring of noise levels was carried out. Then a warrant to seize property capable of making the offending noise had to be obtained before enforcement and Police had to be present when executing such a warrant.

If the noise was related to a domestic disturbance then a different set of protocols had to be followed especially as these incidents had a greater propensity for violence.

If your neighbour is simply being a nob then I wouldn't worry about any legal ramifications. You would need to be visited by either the local authority or the police before any action can be taken and unless the neighbor can show the noise is either so severe as to cause distress or is occurring during quiet hours, usually between 11 and 6, then a visit is unlikely.

Alternatively if his actions are causing you and the girlfriend alarm and distress you may well have a case for harrassment against him.

Obviously this isn't legal advice just observations from someone who used to deal with such complaints when they came through.

Doubleme

Bean81 said:

Do you have carpets? That's normally a typical problem. That and dodgy builders and landlords that don't put in appropriate sound proofing.

Is there a tenants' association, landlord code of conduct or whatever you can refer to? I remember tons of rules like not using the washing machine between 9pm and 7am.

i dont live in a block of flats i live in an end of terrace i think where i live was once one property and then was split into two.

there is no property rules of conduct to refer to. If I am working late and have work the next day it may be the case that I have no choice but to run the washing machine as soon as I get home from work. As work has uniform and I cant go in with the same dirty uniform as the day before. Although I do try to avoid this as far as I am aware normal use of appliances is permitted.

its been 20 days since the the letter from the council and no abetment notice or closing of case so I would assume noise recording equipment has already gone in. the noise from me typing on my keyboard right now at close to 3pm on a Tuesday is probably been noted in potential evidence for an abatement if one is served.

Of course I will have no choice but to appeal an abatement notice if one is served which would be costly and I would assume would automatically lose. Because at this point if we got served one now playing online poker would have to involve going to internet cafes or using battery packs with a laptop in a tent in the woods. Clothes would have to be washed at the laundrette which is timely and expensive, any studying I do would have to be done at a library which puts time constraints on my study as the noise from keyboard typing would be unacceptable.

we would always need to eat out as the noise of cutlery touching the plate would be unacceptable I would need to get a gym memberships for us both to shower as the noise from the shower would be deemed unacceptable. my girlfriends air conditioning which is a health need would be deemed unacceptable we would need to put lots of ice in the freezer and she would just need to hold it against herself. Of course there would be great anxiety in running the taps to do this and lifting open and closing the freezer door.

I say this because we were always quite and have made more effort since the letter was sent. So if we got an abatement order now it would be just shut up not specificizing which levels of noise are or are not acceptable.

we would have no choice but to appeal.

Doubleme

TheEdge949 said:

One of the security duties that I undertook was as part of the local councils Night Noise Management Team.

We were sent out to investigate noise complaints received by either the local authority or the Police between 10pm and 3 am.

These ranged from pubs and clubs right down to a complaint about next doors fridge humming. in 95% of cases the complaint was either malicious or unwarranted and in nearly all of the others a quick chat with the occupier was sufficient to rectify the problem.

Only very rarely was further action required and that could only be undertaken after a series of monitoring of noise levels was carried out. Then a warrant to seize property capable of making the offending noise had to be obtained before enforcement and Police had to be present when executing such a warrant.

If the noise was related to a domestic disturbance then a different set of protocols had to be followed especially as these incidents had a greater propensity for violence.

If your neighbour is simply being a nob then I wouldn't worry about any legal ramifications. You would need to be visited by either the local authority or the police before any action can be taken and unless the neighbor can show the noise is either so severe as to cause distress or is occurring during quiet hours, usually between 11 and 6, then a visit is unlikely.

Alternatively if his actions are causing you and the girlfriend alarm and distress you may well have a case for harrassment against him.

Obviously this isn't legal advice just observations from someone who used to deal with such complaints when they came through.

thanks for that somehow did not see that before I typed all my stuff. The whole issue does cause me anxiety I would hope for a fair process. I guess time will tell, I do finish work late sometimes and so their is no avoiding been up and about at late hours. EG the last shift I had I finished at 11.30pm getting the bus home and walking bits meant I was home at about 12.30am to 1am. I need to either shower or have a bath at this time as you cant go to bed covered in kitchen dirt that is disgusting. I also had to run home because I was been chased and fleeing for my safety, so could have been foot step noises outside but that was a safety issue and I certainly hope a very rare exception.

goldon

Have you thought about buying him a present sweeten him up.........solve the problem.

Essexphil

Doubleme said:

TheEdge949 said:

One of the security duties that I undertook was as part of the local councils Night Noise Management Team.

We were sent out to investigate noise complaints received by either the local authority or the Police between 10pm and 3 am.

These ranged from pubs and clubs right down to a complaint about next doors fridge humming. in 95% of cases the complaint was either malicious or unwarranted and in nearly all of the others a quick chat with the occupier was sufficient to rectify the problem.

Only very rarely was further action required and that could only be undertaken after a series of monitoring of noise levels was carried out. Then a warrant to seize property capable of making the offending noise had to be obtained before enforcement and Police had to be present when executing such a warrant.

If the noise was related to a domestic disturbance then a different set of protocols had to be followed especially as these incidents had a greater propensity for violence.

If your neighbour is simply being a nob then I wouldn't worry about any legal ramifications. You would need to be visited by either the local authority or the police before any action can be taken and unless the neighbor can show the noise is either so severe as to cause distress or is occurring during quiet hours, usually between 11 and 6, then a visit is unlikely.

Alternatively if his actions are causing you and the girlfriend alarm and distress you may well have a case for harrassment against him.

Obviously this isn't legal advice just observations from someone who used to deal with such complaints when they came through.

thanks for that somehow did not see that before I typed all my stuff. The whole issue does cause me anxiety I would hope for a fair process. I guess time will tell, I do finish work late sometimes and so their is no avoiding been up and about at late hours. EG the last shift I had I finished at 11.30pm getting the bus home and walking bits meant I was home at about 12.30am to 1am. I need to either shower or have a bath at this time as you cant go to bed covered in kitchen dirt that is disgusting. I also had to run home because I was been chased and fleeing for my safety, so could have been foot step noises outside but that was a safety issue and I certainly hope a very rare exception.

You need to be careful. You do not want to allow your anxiety to take over, because such emotions tend to make people see things in black and white. Whereas compromise is the way to go.

Do not view the Council as the enemy. Use them as a means to a quiet life. As an example, you have set out very clearly on here why you feel you have no alternative but to shower at what to others might seem an unreasonable time. You need to relay such things to the Council if questioned. But don't stop there. Show the Council that you are trying to be reasonable.

So, for example, explain that you get home at gone midnight X days a week as part of your job. That you will shower as soon as practical after that, and (for example) very rarely, if ever, after 1 am. Why it is impossible to shower at work.. And that, in some senses, there is little difference between someone showering late because of their work hours, and being woken by someone working "regular" hours and showering early.

You don't have to care about your neighbour. But it is wise to pretend you do. So ask the Council whether there are practical steps you can take to reduce noise. Like, for example, the carpet example given earlier.

In my experience, Councils are very receptive to people working with them to resolve such things. Some noise is inevitable. It's just a case of showing it is being kept to a reasonable minimum.

To lighten the mood, I am reminded of the old Tim Vine joke. When he lived in a flat, there was a terrible noise by his downstairs neighbour banging on his front door at 3 am. Fortunately, it didn't wake him up-he was playing his drums at the time...

Bean81

Houses converted into flats can be the worst for noise. When we used to rent flats, there was typically a clause in the tenancy agreement about not creating excessive noise consistently between something like 10pm and 7am, which included the washing machine. Anything like closing the front door, taking a shower and watching TV on low volume did not constitute excessive noise.

Mum and dad gained some new neighbours recently after the little old lady died. While they are not awful, its still very loud with two kids and a boisterous dog. For them, it's excessive volume but I reminded them that we were like that 25+ years ago as a young family of five.

My favourite example of consistent and excessive noise during quiet hours was my friend living in a paper-thin walled flat in Birmingham. The guy next door was prolific with picking up men and would be constantly giving them the good news between 2am and 5am most weekends in the bedroom on the other side of my mate's bedroom wall. He didn't seem to mind and could sleep through it due to it happening so often. I guess it's similar to people that live near an airport or train track.

Tikay10

"giving them the good news"


I'll admit, that made me lol.

Doubleme

thanks for the feedback guys, I will wait to see what the council says if anything next so far all I had was generic noise complaint. there is little point in saying I do this and I could that differently because that may not even be reported or an issue and then I just admitted to something and put a limit on myself. Which does not help my case but if they mention anything specific I can address that point or points or if there is further communication I can ask what exactly the complaint is.

Then go from there. Its highly likely the direct Neighbour and unless he is personal friends with the guy from the council and gets a personal favour I am sceptical he can get far.

I have noticed some mornings or early mid days I have heard a light switch and or the sound of plates thought my girlfriend was up and noticed no this did not come from my flat. So I do not know exactly what neighbours can and cannot hear.

Bean81

Living in a downstairs flat definitely sucks for noise. If the person below you gets irritated by noise, they really shouldn't live in a ground floor flat. What can be a regular-sized person getting out of bed upstairs can sound like an elephant getting up downstairs.

Doubleme

so this is very likely going legal now it has been nearly a month just a few days shy off and have heard nothing from the council.

So I have to assume now that recording equipment has gone in. This guy was waiting anxiously in his garden hoping to catch us out when I was coming back from working late at the airshow. He has stayed up into the early hours listening for anything at all. He has clearly made very detailed notes of any infraction.

I have made a point of getting a decibel app and tracking noises. Background noise anywhere that is if you stay absolutely still, with no electronics on what so ever exceeds 30dbs which makes it impossible because apparently the limit is 20dbs so if can hear anything that unacceptable.

I do not know what noise travels through floors or walls or what not. dbs can be misleading anyway since I found that if I hold my phone directly to my mouth and have a loud whisper this exceeds 100dbs.


I do think this is getting ridiculous though if you hear loud noises that keep you up that is one thing but if your opening your doors and standing in the garden late at night hoping to hear something what does that say?

I dont know how far this guy will go like he could put a megaphone next to recording equipment to amplify any noise this may sound ridiculous but if he is up past midnight standing in his garden with the intent to hear anything I do not think it is far fetched.

someone this determined if the council do not serve an abatement notice he will very likely take legal action himself.

I just cant see how this can happen though like if we make every effort to keep quite and are constantly anxious of any sound at all that is still unacceptable that still results in been evicted fined £5000 etc?

I guess we wont know for some time. I would like to think the council if they thought he had a point would come round and chat to us or communicate in writing rather then serving an abatement notice outright with vague unclear terms.

what evidence a court takes I dont know i just know I likely going to have to get a lawyer and I have no idea how expensive that will be but I cant see it been less then several grand.