Warning of ‘pension black hole’ after Rishi Sunak fails to rule out raising retirement age to 75

HAYSIE

Lord Frost suggests the state pension age should be raised to 75 to shrink public spending





The Tory grandee, who was former PM Boris Johnson 's Brexit negotiator, made the remarks at a party conference fringe meeting on the Future of Conservatism.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12586719/Lord-Frost-suggests-state-pension-age-raised-75-shrink-public-spending.html

Essexphil

This will certainly reduce public spending.

For an individual on full state pension, that is 9 years at £203 per week. Or £90,000. Each. Before you factor in the presumed 9 extra years of paying in NI. And the enormous costs of administering benefits to millions of people reduced into poverty.

What a moron that man is.

HAYSIE

Essexphil said:

This will certainly reduce public spending.

For an individual on full state pension, that is 9 years at £203 per week. Or £90,000. Each. Before you factor in the presumed 9 extra years of paying in NI. And the enormous costs of administering benefits to millions of people reduced into poverty.

What a moron that man is.

He has taken being a moron to a much higher level.

green_beer

Why not allocate the funds they have effectively instead of wasting millions or tax big business and the super wealthy proportionately instead of expecting the working class to pick up the bill or work until they die!

Besides how could you expect a manual labour tradesman to continue till 75. Almost every old guy I know has been shot to **** by 68…..some by 60.

HAYSIE

The problem is that politicians, and people in general, is that they dont think in the long term.
We probably cant afford the NHS, pensions, and maybe lots of other stuff in the long term.
Would it therefore make sense to tell 18 year olds that there will not be a state pension until they were 75?
This would at least allow them to make their own provisions for an earlier retirement.
Although this would not provide any benefit for many years.
We are heading that way anyway, as they are regularly increasing the pension age in small increments.
It is scheduled to increase again to 67, in the next couple of years.
Then 68 in 2044-46.

stokefc

Jesus i knew i was going gonna work till i die i didn't expect to work after i died, sounds like purgatory

HAYSIE

stokefc said:

Jesus i knew i was going gonna work till i die i didn't expect to work after i died, sounds like purgatory

The state pension, like the NHS, is a bottomless pit.
People are living longer.
Everybody wants a good rate, large increases, and to retire as early as possible.
Cant work in the long run.

TheEdge949

Scrap the NHS, that'll kill off millions of pensionable age. Two birds with one stone. Mark for P.M.

I'm being sarcastic btw. Before the trolls come out. However, it does raise a question. Why do the Government actively encourage us to be more healthy and live longer. Stop smoking, drink less, eat better, if they can't afford for us to reach old age and retire.

HAYSIE

State pension set to increase by 8.5% in 2024 as Jeremy Hunt indicates triple lock will be honoured in full


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/state-pension-set-to-increase-by-8-5-in-2024-as-jeremy-hunt-indicates-triple-lock-will-be-honoured-in-full/ar-AA1hDh5k?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=97f5e4c0f36b4e71b6c728948456cae0&ei=50

tomgoodun

stokefc said:

Jesus i knew i was going gonna work till i die i didn't expect to work after i died, sounds like purgatory

I’d like to see any current politician who are voted out at the next election change their ‘trade’ to working on site , or in the joinery trade until the age of 75.
Or, as has been suggested pay into a decent private pension out of the wages we get, alongside every other bl…dy extortionate bill.

HAYSIE

tomgoodun said:

stokefc said:

Jesus i knew i was going gonna work till i die i didn't expect to work after i died, sounds like purgatory

I’d like to see any current politician who are voted out at the next election change their ‘trade’ to working on site , or in the joinery trade until the age of 75.
Or, as has been suggested pay into a decent private pension out of the wages we get, alongside every other bl…dy extortionate bill.

I would agree.
You are not likely to ever see any politician on a building site, unless it is for a photo opportunity.
I would think that the majority of them have decent pensions organised, and very few will work until they are 75.
Although none of that changes the facts.
They can only take so much tax off us.
Some people will argue that we are close to the limit now.
People are living longer, and therefore draw more money in state pension payments, and incur more costs for the NHS.
Where do they get the extra money from?
Pension age increases to 67 in a minute, then 18-20 years before it gets to 68.
So it will get to 75, but probably not in our lifetimes.
A friend of mine who is a carpenter, has just got a job in a factory.
He has a flooring business, but has arthritis in one of his knees.
So his son is doing the flooring, and he is doing three twelve hour shifts in a factory.
I expect many people will seek alternative employment in their old age.
Although my friend is only in his late forties.
I am in a fortunate position as I have some additional income, and no mortgage.
I couldnt afford to live on my state pension alone.

goldon

I paid into serps to boost my pension / and now get taxed on it.
they take half of it and it was my money deducted from my wages over the years.

stokefc

HAYSIE said:

tomgoodun said:

stokefc said:

Jesus i knew i was going gonna work till i die i didn't expect to work after i died, sounds like purgatory

I’d like to see any current politician who are voted out at the next election change their ‘trade’ to working on site , or in the joinery trade until the age of 75.
Or, as has been suggested pay into a decent private pension out of the wages we get, alongside every other bl…dy extortionate bill.

I would agree.
You are not likely to ever see any politician on a building site, unless it is for a photo opportunity.
I would think that the majority of them have decent pensions organised, and very few will work until they are 75.
Although none of that changes the facts.
They can only take so much tax off us.
Some people will argue that we are close to the limit now.
People are living longer, and therefore draw more money in state pension payments, and incur more costs for the NHS.
Where do they get the extra money from?
Pension age increases to 67 in a minute, then 18-20 years before it gets to 68.
So it will get to 75, but probably not in our lifetimes.
A friend of mine who is a carpenter, has just got a job in a factory.
He has a flooring business, but has arthritis in one of his knees.
So his son is doing the flooring, and he is doing three twelve hour shifts in a factory.
I expect many people will seek alternative employment in their old age.
Although my friend is only in his late forties.
I am in a fortunate position as I have some additional income, and no mortgage.
I couldnt afford to live on my state pension alone.

This is a joke right , maybe if you lived down south , i've practically lived on the breadline during my working life while working on site so a private pension has been out of the question... bills bills bills , mortgage , wife and kids
Some people need to get a grasp of reality.

Doubleme

HAYSIE said:

tomgoodun said:

stokefc said:

Jesus i knew i was going gonna work till i die i didn't expect to work after i died, sounds like purgatory

I’d like to see any current politician who are voted out at the next election change their ‘trade’ to working on site , or in the joinery trade until the age of 75.
Or, as has been suggested pay into a decent private pension out of the wages we get, alongside every other bl…dy extortionate bill.

I would agree.
You are not likely to ever see any politician on a building site, unless it is for a photo opportunity.
I would think that the majority of them have decent pensions organised, and very few will work until they are 75.
Although none of that changes the facts.
They can only take so much tax off us.
Some people will argue that we are close to the limit now.
People are living longer, and therefore draw more money in state pension payments, and incur more costs for the NHS.
Where do they get the extra money from?
Pension age increases to 67 in a minute, then 18-20 years before it gets to 68.
So it will get to 75, but probably not in our lifetimes.
A friend of mine who is a carpenter, has just got a job in a factory.
He has a flooring business, but has arthritis in one of his knees.
So his son is doing the flooring, and he is doing three twelve hour shifts in a factory.
I expect many people will seek alternative employment in their old age.
Although my friend is only in his late forties.
I am in a fortunate position as I have some additional income, and no mortgage.
I couldnt afford to live on my state pension alone.

by additional income do you mean poker winnings? not condemning that in anyway but responsible gambling nanny state legislation may mean that is taken away and your banned from it in the future.

So far legislation does not look it would affect you as I assume you only withdraw and do not deposit but this is something been fought all the time there is definitely the possibility that it may affect you directly in the future.

HAYSIE

stokefc said:

HAYSIE said:

tomgoodun said:

stokefc said:

Jesus i knew i was going gonna work till i die i didn't expect to work after i died, sounds like purgatory

I’d like to see any current politician who are voted out at the next election change their ‘trade’ to working on site , or in the joinery trade until the age of 75.
Or, as has been suggested pay into a decent private pension out of the wages we get, alongside every other bl…dy extortionate bill.

I would agree.
You are not likely to ever see any politician on a building site, unless it is for a photo opportunity.
I would think that the majority of them have decent pensions organised, and very few will work until they are 75.
Although none of that changes the facts.
They can only take so much tax off us.
Some people will argue that we are close to the limit now.
People are living longer, and therefore draw more money in state pension payments, and incur more costs for the NHS.
Where do they get the extra money from?
Pension age increases to 67 in a minute, then 18-20 years before it gets to 68.
So it will get to 75, but probably not in our lifetimes.
A friend of mine who is a carpenter, has just got a job in a factory.
He has a flooring business, but has arthritis in one of his knees.
So his son is doing the flooring, and he is doing three twelve hour shifts in a factory.
I expect many people will seek alternative employment in their old age.
Although my friend is only in his late forties.
I am in a fortunate position as I have some additional income, and no mortgage.
I couldnt afford to live on my state pension alone.

This is a joke right , maybe if you lived down south , i've practically lived on the breadline during my working life while working on site so a private pension has been out of the question... bills bills bills , mortgage , wife and kids
Some people need to get a grasp of reality.

No it wasnt a joke.
I dont expect that many MPs work until they are 75, most will have decent pensions, and they are rarely working on building sites.

HAYSIE

Doubleme said:

HAYSIE said:

tomgoodun said:

stokefc said:

Jesus i knew i was going gonna work till i die i didn't expect to work after i died, sounds like purgatory

I’d like to see any current politician who are voted out at the next election change their ‘trade’ to working on site , or in the joinery trade until the age of 75.
Or, as has been suggested pay into a decent private pension out of the wages we get, alongside every other bl…dy extortionate bill.

I would agree.
You are not likely to ever see any politician on a building site, unless it is for a photo opportunity.
I would think that the majority of them have decent pensions organised, and very few will work until they are 75.
Although none of that changes the facts.
They can only take so much tax off us.
Some people will argue that we are close to the limit now.
People are living longer, and therefore draw more money in state pension payments, and incur more costs for the NHS.
Where do they get the extra money from?
Pension age increases to 67 in a minute, then 18-20 years before it gets to 68.
So it will get to 75, but probably not in our lifetimes.
A friend of mine who is a carpenter, has just got a job in a factory.
He has a flooring business, but has arthritis in one of his knees.
So his son is doing the flooring, and he is doing three twelve hour shifts in a factory.
I expect many people will seek alternative employment in their old age.
Although my friend is only in his late forties.
I am in a fortunate position as I have some additional income, and no mortgage.
I couldnt afford to live on my state pension alone.

by additional income do you mean poker winnings? not condemning that in anyway but responsible gambling nanny state legislation may mean that is taken away and your banned from it in the future.

So far legislation does not look it would affect you as I assume you only withdraw and do not deposit but this is something been fought all the time there is definitely the possibility that it may affect you directly in the future.

No I didnt mean poker winnings.

HAYSIE

goldon said:

I paid into serps to boost my pension / and now get taxed on it.
they take half of it and it was my money deducted from my wages over the years.

A politician would probably argue that you got tax relief on the contributions, and you can still draw 25% of it tax free.

HAYSIE

HAYSIE said:

goldon said:

I paid into serps to boost my pension / and now get taxed on it.
they take half of it and it was my money deducted from my wages over the years.

A politician would probably argue that you got tax relief on the contributions, and you can still draw 25% of it tax free.

Sorry I was thinking SIPP, havent got a clue about serps.

Bean81

As much as I hate this idea, it's an issue worth debating. Not so long ago, the state pension was expected to pay out for an average of 10 years. Now it's closer to 20 and with more people requiring elderly care.

Without a pot of money stashed away from years of NI contributions, current workers pay for pensions. As life expectancy continues to increase against a backdrop of unfilled jobs, low growth, high inflation and a government unwilling to welcome migrant workers, there is a huge problem brewing. A problem compounded by all of the public sector worker final salary pensions soon to pay out (again, where 40 years of pension contributions aren't saved in a pot somewhere).

More needs to be done to enforce compulsory pension contributions IMO. 5% employee, 10% employer should be the norm, phased in over time.

Essexphil

It has to be debated. And some change will be necessary.

But what rankles is that it is today's workers who are paying for today's pensioners. Not their own pensions.

Let's use Lord Frost as an example. He was a career senior Civil Servant-a diplomat. And in recent years a Government Minister. Both jobs carrying extremely generous Final Salary Pension schemes. Funded by the taxpayer. Whereas Final Salary Pension schemes have pretty much disappeared from the private sector.

People paid into Final Salary Pension schemes. Their retirement was set in stone. And then became more generous with the 25% Tax-free lump sum, and the facility to take it from 55.

Compare/contrast with State Pensions. Where what everyone thought was a guaranteed pension at 65 got changed for workers-but not for pensioners. Years more paying in, plus years less receiving money.

The first thing that needs to be phased out is Final Salary Pension schemes funded by the Taxpayer. Because they seem to be funded by reducing pensions for others.

HAYSIE

Essexphil said:

It has to be debated. And some change will be necessary.

But what rankles is that it is today's workers who are paying for today's pensioners. Not their own pensions.

Let's use Lord Frost as an example. He was a career senior Civil Servant-a diplomat. And in recent years a Government Minister. Both jobs carrying extremely generous Final Salary Pension schemes. Funded by the taxpayer. Whereas Final Salary Pension schemes have pretty much disappeared from the private sector.

People paid into Final Salary Pension schemes. Their retirement was set in stone. And then became more generous with the 25% Tax-free lump sum, and the facility to take it from 55.

Compare/contrast with State Pensions. Where what everyone thought was a guaranteed pension at 65 got changed for workers-but not for pensioners. Years more paying in, plus years less receiving money.

The first thing that needs to be phased out is Final Salary Pension schemes funded by the Taxpayer. Because they seem to be funded by reducing pensions for others.

I agree with the point about final salary pension schemes.
I am not sure you can argue the highlighted bit, with the triple lock in place.
It surely cant make sense for the least well off workers having to work until they die, at some point in the future.
This government seem to be concentrating on sticking plasters, rather than any long term plans for anything.
It is difficult to point to anything that is running well.