Possible Collusion

EmperorSex

I notice 3 player names played 4 turbo DYM tables together over the span of 21 games that ran in the same format.

Code name for each players:

B-M (2024 player)

H-6 (2024 player)

I-V (2015 player)


These 3 players results together: B-M -- WWWW 100% ITM; H-6 -- WLWW 75% ITM
; I-V -- WWLW 75% ITM


B-M has played 92 DYM games, but 51 of them were with I-V. Respective win rates 55.4%, 54.9% without and with.
When filted to last 25 games the ITM is 60%. Last 10 -- 70%.

I-V has played 281 DYM games, 51 with B-M. Respective win rates 46.3%, 54.9% without and with. Almost a 9% improvement.
Filted to last 25 games is also 60%. Last 10 -- 70%.

These two -- B-M and I-V -- have gotten better at colluding, maybe?

EmperorSex

By the wat the chances of them playing the 4 of those game together out of 21 is: (3/6)*(1/21*20*19*18) = 1 in 287,280 I think



What an odd coincidence.

Jac35

Ah
I thought this would be about me when i saw the thread title
You accused myself and Mayhem not so long ago

sircryptic

Sky will only ban them from playing each other if its blatant collusion. To qualify for that most likely be that 2 players or more play 80% of volume together, constantly chip dumping and folding to say a less than 1 BB shove. It's super obvious to detect even when mass multi tabling a quick sharkscope search will generally confirm it when said players have played 25 games with 23 being together.

Unfortunately if its soft play they're not interested in. There's 2 players in the lowstakes that know each other, they've played thousands of turbo games but they don't solely play together, only a relatively small % of their volume are games that they're both in but when they are in the same games the only time they'll get the chips in the middle is if both get dealt top of the range. They'll constantly walk each other in the blinds, fold to small all in, in spots when it's any 2 card call and they don't try and hide it. It's been brought to skys attention but they deem it fine play.

Regardless if you suspect anything just send via live chat and they'll be banned from playing together if its proven they cheat. Should be banned from the site permanently but sky allows them to remain.

SCOTFOX

What were the stakes? I would be a lot more suspicious about players cheating on cash games TBH as dodgy folk are usually greedy. I play small stakes DYM and constantly go 'all-in', so anyone cheating does not affect me ha ha

Doubleme

I have been put off by dons in the past because there I have been accused of cheating when i know for a fact I have not.
Then I see others who I suspect of cheating I know some regs who have openly said that to call in this spot you need KK+ who then call of with AT or A9.

Is that personal is that collusion is that a mistake? are they playing chicken? (deliberately calling wide to send message you cant shove wide on them for meta game.)

actually breaking down if some group is cheating would be difficult if people wern't total idiots about it. a call with A9 off does not look suspicious a call with J7 does. statistics and who plays together etc.

really it is not hard to make a small living from dons and it would take a lot of thought effort trust communication and training to organize a collusion ring which would not be detectable or would be very hard to detect.

One therefore has a number of options
1. cheat in an obvious way and get caught and banned and done for fraud
2. cheat in a very sophisticated way where getting caught is unlikely but the cost of this is very high
3. just learn to play the game well and win well anyway.

the issue is morality aside the amount of effort it would take to organize a cheating ring with low possibility of getting caught one could just study the game and make more anyway.

if someone put the same effort into mtts or spin and goes etc or cash game they could make a better living then they could cheating at dons without cheating and risking getting caught.

my advice if you suspect someone of cheating report it, I would hope sky poker would use a proper statistical method to analyse fairly for evidence of cheating.

it just seems silly to me dons is an easy way to make a small amount of money but a very hard way to make a lot of money.

Jac35

Collusion in Dyms on Sky isn’t actually a common occurrence.
There is a small player pool and on the odd occasion it does happen it’s very easy to spot.
People will often just look at one hand and in their minds determine that collusion is taking place. There are often many other factors in place that makes a decision look odd.
People aren’t concentrating
They’re watching tv
They misclick

The odd time i’ve seen a couple of players playing together i’ve gathered some facts.
Once reported Sky have dealt with the offenders and banned them. I’ve received refunds when a case has been proven.

One other thing
Colluders are normally very bad at it and still don’t make any money from the games

toonblazer

i would have thought it would be to be fair ive alwasys thought theres been colusion on the dyms all the time