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A FARMERS JUSTICE.

lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,937
edited October 24 in The Rail
A farmer hog-tied two trespassers and drove them to his local police station – but was later arrested for suspicion of false imprisonment and assault. The Farmer has been bailed.



Mr Greenwood discovered the two men on his land and performed a citizen’s arrest because he believed they were trespassing.
They had been riding an electric bike across the farmer’s field the previous day and had to leave it on the premises because the gate they had entered through was subsequently locked.

When they returned the next day to retrieve the bike, Mr Greenwood, who was riding his quad bike at the time, tackled them to the floor and bound their hands.

Lancashire Police were called at around 11.30am on Sunday by a man who said he had detained two males. As officers made their way to the property they received a second call from the man saying he was now at Colne police station, Lancashire, with the two males he had detained.

Mr Greenwood, 52, had placed the suspects on his quad bike and drove them four miles to his police station.

A photograph shows the two hooded individuals unsecured but face down on the front and rear of the stationary vehicle.
CCTV footage later captures Mr Greenwood driving his quad bike along a road with the pair still on top of his all terrain vehicle.
When he arrived at the station, Mr Greenwood was detained and questioned by officers on suspicion of false imprisonment and assault.

Leland Hornby, 17, of Barnoldswick, Lancashire, who was held by the farmer, said he was bound up alongside his 20-year-old friend at the remote farm in Trawden.

The construction worker told The Sun: “My mate had been riding his electric bike across the field the night before. He went to leave but the farmer had locked the gates so he left his bike.

“We went back the next morning but it wasn’t there. As we walked back, the farmer jumped off his quad bike and tackled us to the ground.

“I tried running off but he chased me down. He tied us up, threw us on to the quad bike and took us to the police. I was scared of what he might do.”

His mum added: “They were frightened to death. The pair of them nearly fell off.”

Mr Greenwood, who was bailed, declined to comment when approached by The Sun.

Lancashire Police: “We were called to a remote property in Trawden at 11.26am on Sunday (Oct 20) by a man who said he had detained two males.

“While police were making their way to the property, we received a second call from the man to say he was now at Colne Police Station with the two males he had detained.

“When officers went to meet the man, they found a teenager and a man in his 20s on a quad bike with their hands and feet tied. They were not secured to the quad bike.

“A 52-year-old man from Trawden was later arrested on suspicion of false imprisonment and assault. He has since been released on bail pending further enquiries.”

Comments

  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,774
    edited October 24
    That Farmer is in quite a bit of trouble.

    That most certainly is not a "Citizen's Arrest". Which is a complex area few understand.

    In order to make a valid Citizen's Arrest, various things have to be satisfied.

    There are 3 categories of Criminal Offence- in order of seriousness:

    (1) Indictable-only (Crown Court + Jury)
    (2) Either-Way Offences (Can be heard in Crown or Magistrates)
    (3) Summary-only offences (Magistrates only)

    It is only permissible to carry out a Citizens Arrest for an indictable offence-that means (1) or (2) above.

    Trespass is not generally a Criminal Offence at all (some exceptions at Army bases and Nuclear installations).

    Everything in this story suggests this Farmer needs to realise he is not Judge Dredd. Has committed various criminal offences. As well as realising those young lads have a rather substantial right to damages.
  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,518
    Assuming that the two lads damaged the farmer's field (criminal damage?) Would he then have a right to make a citizen's arrest? I know that hog tying them to his ATV wasn't the way to go about it but he is almost certainly going to end up on the wrong side of any 'justice' in this case, which, in many ways, sums up this country atm.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,774
    Enut said:

    Assuming that the two lads damaged the farmer's field (criminal damage?) Would he then have a right to make a citizen's arrest? I know that hog tying them to his ATV wasn't the way to go about it but he is almost certainly going to end up on the wrong side of any 'justice' in this case, which, in many ways, sums up this country atm.

    Interesting point. And one that only reinforces the dangers of citizens arrests.

    1. Most (not all) acts of Criminal Damage or Summary-only offences (most under £5,000 of damage)
    2. Even if it were an either-way offence, there are other problems. To make a valid citizens arrest, you normally have to catch the person in the act, and detain them until the police arrive. Not (as here) impound the vehicle, don't inform the police, wait 24 hours and only then imprison them
    3. Way more than reasonable force was clearly used

    Citizens arrests are dangerous.

    And always have been
  • stokefcstokefc Member Posts: 7,830
    edited October 25
  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 9,056
    The Chickens weren't laying, someone had to pay.
  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,686
    Sorry, but you go where you shouldn't go. You pay the price. Extreme yes but as an advocate of "Castle Law" I'm with the farmer here.

    Too many people these days think they can do whatever they like without consequences. Personally, I'd have taken the electric bike and disposed of it and hit the bad guys in the pocket.

  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,774

    Sorry, but you go where you shouldn't go. You pay the price. Extreme yes but as an advocate of "Castle Law" I'm with the farmer here.

    Too many people these days think they can do whatever they like without consequences. Personally, I'd have taken the electric bike and disposed of it and hit the bad guys in the pocket.

    Lots of people share that view.

    The only legal systems that tend to support that thinking tend to involve Sharia Law.

    And you wouldn't be hitting the bad guys in the pocket. Just you.
  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,937
    Surely in the centuries of English Law there must be some sort of law/rule/code etc that states, if a crime is committed as a result of a first crime being committed, the said person has got a reason for their actions. To put it bluntly, if they weren't riding on his land in the first place, the farmer wouldn't have took the action he did. It should be called 'The Common Sense Law'.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,774
    Short answer. No. Just like 2 wrongs don't make a right. Ever. Although there are times when it results in the 2nd wrongdoer getting a lesser penalty.

    Not saying the Law is perfect. It isn't. But that wouldn't be "common sense". That would be an awful World.
  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,518
    lucy4 said:

    Surely in the centuries of English Law there must be some sort of law/rule/code etc that states, if a crime is committed as a result of a first crime being committed, the said person has got a reason for their actions. To put it bluntly, if they weren't riding on his land in the first place, the farmer wouldn't have took the action he did. It should be called 'The Common Sense Law'.

    I agree, but I don't think the law does, although the previous 'causal' actions may, in some case, be used as mitigating circumstances to reduce the sentence, but as the sayings go 'you can't take the law into your own hands' and 'two wrongs don't make a right' etc etc..
  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 9,056
    Was Aristotle right when he said “Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man”?
  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,518
    The farmer was 'arrested on suspicion of false imprisonment and assault' let's hope that common sense prevails and they find that it's not in the public interest to proceed with charges.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,774
    Just to add to what @Enut says

    There are occasions when what might otherwise be a crime is not because of the first crime. So-for example-it has always been the case that you can use reasonable force in certain circumstances.

    So if a burglar advances towards your family with a knife, your range of options would be larger than if (say) someone was just trespassing.

    People always raise the case of Tony Martin (the guy who shot the Burglar). His problem was this. He had been boasting down the pub beforehand that he had created a hidey-hole, and that he had a gun and was going to shoot the next burglar dead. Without that, he might have got away with it.

  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,686
    Essexphil said:

    Sorry, but you go where you shouldn't go. You pay the price. Extreme yes but as an advocate of "Castle Law" I'm with the farmer here.

    Too many people these days think they can do whatever they like without consequences. Personally, I'd have taken the electric bike and disposed of it and hit the bad guys in the pocket.

    Lots of people share that view.

    The only legal systems that tend to support that thinking tend to involve Sharia Law.

    And you wouldn't be hitting the bad guys in the pocket. Just you.
    Nah, because what are they going to do eh. Complain to the Police about a missing bike that they left overnight on somebodies land that they had no permission to be on.

    "Sorry officer I have no idea what you're talking about. Anybody could have removed it. i get hikers, runners, dog walkers, trespassers etc all the time. Could've been anybody."

    I'm not advocating shooting trespassers or the like, but everybody should have the right to defend their home / land.



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