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🛑 Who’s at Fault? Traffic experts only need apply! 🛑

mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 8,509
edited October 2024 in The Rail

A minor collision, no-one got hurt.

Where does the blame lie ?





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Comments

  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,734
    The person who opened their door into oncoming traffic would be held at fault. The 4x4 was also going too fast, especially into a situation where a door MAY be opened, so they had no time to give a horn warning or stop if a door was opened, but from an insurance claim point of view the parked car would almost certainly be held at fault.

    Anyone with a little training (or experience of actually being observant) would have probably hung back having clocked that the 'parked' car had people in it and it was either going to pull out or a door may be opened, so allow the oncoming traffic to pass and then pass the parked car leaving a suitable gap so that if a door was opened you would be clear of it. But sadly the majority of driver's today are nowhere near the standard they should be.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 9,253
    Enut said:

    The person who opened their door into oncoming traffic would be held at fault. The 4x4 was also going too fast, especially into a situation where a door MAY be opened, so they had no time to give a horn warning or stop if a door was opened, but from an insurance claim point of view the parked car would almost certainly be held at fault.

    Anyone with a little training (or experience of actually being observant) would have probably hung back having clocked that the 'parked' car had people in it and it was either going to pull out or a door may be opened, so allow the oncoming traffic to pass and then pass the parked car leaving a suitable gap so that if a door was opened you would be clear of it. But sadly the majority of driver's today are nowhere near the standard they should be.

    That is logical. And correct in some senses. But not all.

    The bit that is correct is that it looks very much as though the accident was caused by whoever opened the car door. But that is not necessarily where the blame lies.

    Blame lies with the owner of the vehicle and their insurers. That holds true if it was a passenger who opened that door. Or if the driver is an employee driving under his employer's insurance policy, when the employer is vicariously liable.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 9,253
    For the sake of completeness, there is another instance where the blame technically lies elsewhere.

    If the person opening the door was in no way connected to the owner (for example a joy-rider or thief) blame attaches to 2 people. Firstly, the thief. And secondly, the "relevant insurer" under the MIB agreement (which will most often be the owner's insurer, but not normally impacting the owner)
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  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,734
    Come on @Essexphil, you know that's not what @mumsie is after, although you may well be technically correct from an insurance point of view. If we're being pedantic you could place the blame on the parents and whoever brought up the idiot who opened the car door. Without the parents that accident would never have happened and if brought up better then they would have had the common sense to have looked before opening the door! :D
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  • stokefcstokefc Member Posts: 7,980
    edited October 2024
    Surely the 4x4 should have stopped giving right of way to oncoming traffic they seemed eager to pass before the oncoming had passed imho
    Edit: At least they stopped
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 9,253
    edited October 2024
    Enut said:

    Come on @Essexphil, you know that's not what @mumsie is after, although you may well be technically correct from an insurance point of view. If we're being pedantic you could place the blame on the parents and whoever brought up the idiot who opened the car door. Without the parents that accident would never have happened and if brought up better then they would have had the common sense to have looked before opening the door! :D

    I don't know what @mumsie is after. I don't mean to be rude. This isn't pedantry-it is being an expert. Because I have dealt with thousands of civil claims relating to road accidents. Your answer is practical. And good-in most cases. But not correct in all cases. And, were various people to follow your advice, they would have a legal claim. Against you. Which is why I pointed out the exceptions.

    Different words have different meanings. "Fault" and "blame" have different meanings.

    And, in either case, it is not just the Insurer that is affected. Any legal claim should be primarily against the owner (cannot sue the Insurer direct, and it is up to the Insured-not the wrongdoer-to add the Insurer as 2nd Defendant. The person opening the car door (if not the Owner) is not "at fault" or "to blame" at law. Or, more accurately, have no connection to the person with unlimited liability and unlimited funds (which is key to the person suffering the loss). They do not have to pay anything to the Owner or Insurer (although, if it were me who opened the door, I would feel morally obliged to make a gift of the excess to the Owner).
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  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 9,313
    Both Parties got the Punishment they deserved. He! He! .
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  • Gman71Gman71 Member Posts: 14
    Defo the person opening the car door, Also im surprised no one else noticed how far they are parked from the pavement. If they had parked properly in the first place there would have been more space for the vehicles to pass safely. 100% parked cars fault
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  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,734
    Gman71 said:

    Defo the person opening the car door, Also im surprised no one else noticed how far they are parked from the pavement. If they had parked properly in the first place there would have been more space for the vehicles to pass safely. 100% parked cars fault

    I did and it's why I put 'parked' in inverted commas, the driver of the car passing it therefore should not have assumed it was inactive and should have been ready for something to have happened (door opening, car pulling out etc). Still the door openers fault though, but the accident (now referred to by the police as road traffic collision) should have been avoided if the 4x4 driver had driven slower and better. You should drive so that you can fix problems caused by others.
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  • Gman71Gman71 Member Posts: 14
    edited October 2024
    I would argue they have every right to assume the car is stationary. It is parked with no lights showing no indication it is active. The parked car is the one causing two obstructions, It is parked too far from the pavement and they open a door into traffic so I would argue he is the primary reason for the accident and the one at fault.
    The more cautious of us would have given way to let the oncoming traffic pass but the person passing has done nothing wrong as he wasn't breaking the speed limit, The gap was passible (Until the door got opened) and the parked car gave no signs of activity.

    Again I agree the best thing to do was to give way but the question was who is at fault and I don't believe it was both of them in my humble opinion as @goldon thinks.

    Thank goodness no one got hurt :smile:
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  • Gman71Gman71 Member Posts: 14
    What are your thoughts @mumsie?
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  • mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 8,509
    Gman71 said:

    What are your thoughts @mumsie?

    Hi, I'll add my thoughts later when I'm home.
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  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,484
    What you all need to remember? Is mumsie was the guy who opened the car door......💩
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  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,734
    madprof said:

    What you all need to remember? Is mumsie was the guy who opened the car door......💩

    @mumsie's Mrs opened the door and he's scared to tell her she was in the wrong, needs backup. :)
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  • mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 8,509
    I hope no one thinks this is anything to do with me, its something found on the internet and shared here for entertainment reasons..
    Enut said:

    The person who opened their door into oncoming traffic would be held at fault. The 4x4 was also going too fast, especially into a situation where a door MAY be opened, so they had no time to give a horn warning or stop if a door was opened, but from an insurance claim point of view the parked car would almost certainly be held at fault.

    Anyone with a little training (or experience of actually being observant) would have probably hung back having clocked that the 'parked' car had people in it and it was either going to pull out or a door may be opened, so allow the oncoming traffic to pass and then pass the parked car leaving a suitable gap so that if a door was opened you would be clear of it. But sadly the majority of driver's today are nowhere near the standard they should be.

    I thought this a brilliant summary.

    This got me thinking of situations where the parked car could have a legitimate reason to be parked in such an inconsiderate place.
    stokefc said:

    Surely the 4x4 should have stopped giving right of way to oncoming traffic they seemed eager to pass before the oncoming had passed imho
    Edit: At least they stopped

    Agreed. Should have been thinking, why is this car so far out and slowed to a stop to let the Sainsburys van pass.
    Essexphil said:

    For the sake of completeness, there is another instance where the blame technically lies elsewhere.

    If the person opening the door was in no way connected to the owner (for example a joy-rider or thief) blame attaches to 2 people. Firstly, the thief. And secondly, the "relevant insurer" under the MIB agreement (which will most often be the owner's insurer, but not normally impacting the owner)

    stokefc said:

    Surely the 4x4 should have stopped giving right of way to oncoming traffic they seemed eager to pass before the oncoming had passed imho
    Edit: At least they stopped

    Essexphil said:

    show previous quotes
    I don't know what @mumsie is after. I don't mean to be rude. This isn't pedantry-it is being an expert. Because I have dealt with thousands of civil claims relating to road accidents. Your answer is practical. And good-in most cases. But not correct in all cases. And, were various people to follow your advice, they would have a legal claim. Against you. Which is why I pointed out the exceptions.

    Different words have different meanings. "Fault" and "blame" have different meanings.

    And, in either case, it is not just the Insurer that is affected. Any legal claim should be primarily against the owner (cannot sue the Insurer direct, and it is up to the Insured-not the wrongdoer-to add the Insurer as 2nd Defendant. The person opening the car door (if not the Owner) is not "at fault" or "to blame" at law. Or, more accurately, have no connection to the person with unlimited liability and unlimited funds (which is key to the person suffering the loss). They do not have to pay anything to the Owner or Insurer (although, if it were me who opened the door, I would feel morally obliged to make a gift of the excess to the Owner).
    Gman71 said:

    Defo the person opening the car door, Also im surprised no one else noticed how far they are parked from the pavement. If they had parked properly in the first place there would have been more space for the vehicles to pass safely. 100% parked cars fault

    I did think along these lines at some point, but then changed my view after @Essexphil, @enut and @stokefc piped up.

    Replace the parked car with school kids playing around or an parked police car, we are 100% slowing down to a stop. Just because a parked car is parked imperfectly doesn't mean the 4x4 can stop driving considerately.
    Gman71 said:

    Defo the person opening the car door, Also im surprised no one else noticed how far they are parked from the pavement. If they had parked properly in the first place there would have been more space for the vehicles to pass safely. 100% parked cars fault

    Got to love @goldon and his one liners :)
    Gman71 said:

    Defo the person opening the car door, Also im surprised no one else noticed how far they are parked from the pavement. If they had parked properly in the first place there would have been more space for the vehicles to pass safely. 100% parked cars fault

    Enut said:

    show previous quotes
    @mumsie's Mrs opened the door and he's scared to tell her she was in the wrong, needs backup. :)
    It wasnt me I tell ya. I expect you had a nice holiday and caused a riot.

    @mumsie's Mrs opened the door and he's scared to tell her she was in the wrong, needs backup. :)

    I do regret not stating at the outset its just a random gif i came across whilst looking up anagrams.
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