Shallow Stacked Heads Up Spot (Turbo MTT) how would you proceed with this hand on this turn?

MynaFrett

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
chkngeorge	Small blind		6000.00	6000.00	371204.50
MynaFrett	Big blind		12000.00	18000.00	97795.50
	Your hole cards	5 9
chkngeorge	Call		6000.00	24000.00	365204.50
MynaFrett	Check
Flop
		6 5 4
MynaFrett	Check
chkngeorge	Bet		12000.00	36000.00	353204.50
MynaFrett	Call		12000.00	48000.00	85795.50
Turn
		9
MynaFrett	Check
chkngeorge	Bet		15000.00	63000.00	338204.50

Doubleme

Raise (all-in)

two pair is a monster heads up and at such a short stack you cant just flat here. Further if a fourth heart a 7 an 8 or a 3 comes on river then what just check fold?

If the guy has a flush or a straight then its just a cooler and bad luck, but you still have a redraw to full house. your only option is to shove here.

MynaFrett

Doubleme said:

two pair is a monster heads up and at such a short stack you cant just flat here. Further if a fourth heart a 7 an 8 or a 3 comes on river then what just check fold?

If the guy has a flush or a straight then its just a cooler and bad luck, but you still have a redraw to full house. your only option is to shove here.

Thanks for taking part and responding. I hope your post doesn't put people off voting for "call" though. I didn't realise (or didn't remember) people could comment below the poll, I thought they could only vote. The plan was just to collate the numbers over the course of a week or so and then follow up. Maybe I should have said as much so that's my fault.

Just to play devil's advocate then I will attempt to counter your points by saying we definitely have a calling range here even at such shallow depths and out of position, it's definitely not a shove or fold only spot. I know I asked about this two pair combination specifically but ignoring the exact hand for a moment and thinking more in terms of ranges the spot isn't as black and white as you seem to suggest and there will be some crossover between the relative strength of some combinations which are choosing to call sometimes and shove sometimes. A turn call here puts the pot at 78,000 leaving 70,000 in my stack. Opponent has chosen a very nice size which still allows him to have a bet-folding range on turn whilst also leaving a river SPR that can still generate folds from some hands when he chooses to follow through on some runouts with some parts of his range that decide to triple barrel vs check-call, check-call, check (this range has to and will include bluffs as opponent is a competent player). You also only mention running into hands we are currently behind. It's a spot where both players have flushes, offsuit straight combo's and some suited combo's of straights. Both players also have pair + draw or single pair or (occasionally) two overcard one heart hands and one overcard/heart hands. It's of course not a situation where we only get called by better hands when we shove but it's also not a situation where opponent (in position and covering) doesn't have low equity bluffs/semi bluffs which are bet-folding. He will also have some 'value' that decides to bet-fold sometimes facing the check-shove. We will also have check-raises all-in with some semi-bluffs/combo draws/blocker stuff which is 'weaker' than this two pair on the turn and some check-raises all-in with some hands which are already 'stronger' than this two pair on the turn so we are already kind of in the middle ground with some two pair combinations.

It's a more interesting spot than it appears at first glance and I think some people might be surprised at just how much playability and options you actually still have in heads up spots even when out of position with a <10bb stack...

That said, I will end by saying I'm still bad heads up. I'm probably not too much better than 50/50 in terms of converting heads up situations into tournament wins and that's particularly bad when playing bounty hunters on Sky where the difference between 1st and 2nd with bounties is far greater than on any other site. I'll admit to having never really looked at heads up play and that is not great for any semi-serious player or anyone who wants to be winning tournaments regularly. I'll also admit to not getting heads up nearly enough and that's part of the problem as well, so just not getting enough practice. I've never really been interested in single table sit and go or 'spin' formats, played maybe a handful of 6 handed sit and go with two players paid and no kind of 'spin' or three handed game with one paid. Playing some of these (even if just at very low stakes) would be a good way of getting better at heads up but I honestly can't be bothered to find the time to put in any kind of volume with those.

stokefc

Raise (all-in)

I don't think you need to overthink in this spot , though i understand why good players do and players like me will be mashing the all in button but two's up with two pair with a card to come short stacked seems irresistible even with the three imho

gogogadget

Raise (all-in)

Don’t think you’re going to get many better spots with being so short, he is going to be betting far worse hands.

MynaFrett

l feel like something might be getting lost in translation here a little bit. I'm not actually that much of a nit that I don't realise this two pair combo is strong enough to shove for 'value/protection' in this heads up spot being so shallow, it's more about having some hands in my range which are better than some of the one pair/pair + heart/combo draw hands that are sometimes or mostly going into a check-call, check-call, check-fold unimproved on river line. We already know opponent is good and aggressive and if I only get to river with those one pair hands in that passive line he potentially just gets to shove river (unimproved) as much as he likes with any number of Kh8x, Kh7x, Kh3x, Qh8x, Qh7x, Qh3x, Jh8x, Jh7x, Jh3x, Th8x, Th7x, Th3x and potentially even more combinations than those with any kind of Kh, Qh, Jh, Th or even some combinations containing just an 8,7, or 3. He can also potentially turn his own one pair hands into bluffs on the river and get me to fold better one pair hands. If we say all flushes (or the vast majority) just want to check-shove turn for value along with all straights (or the vast majority) shoving for value/protection then how do we protect those weaker hands in that passive check-call, check-call, check line? Surely we have to protect that weak check-call line with some hands which are already stronger than one pair on the turn so we have some more hands which can check-call more rivers. Where are those hands coming from if we are already all-in with the vast majority if not all of the flushes and straights on the turn? We don't have any sets because all of those pocket pairs are all-in preflop so our range that gets to turn as played is entirely one pair hands, combo draws (pair + straight draw or pair + flush draw) potentially a few over-card/straight draw/flush draw hands which are still unpaired, two pairs, straights and flushes. That means we are already all-in with too many strong hands by the turn and are left with too many marginal/weak hands that have check-called flop and turn and miss/don't improve on rivers or are made weaker on rivers.
In game with the short time to act I felt like those hands protecting the passive line might have to come from some two pair combinations but I didn't know which ones (if any) might prefer call and which prefer shove. It seems like people so far are kind of lumping "two pairs" together as a block of hands, or a class of hands if you like, that simply have to go all-in and that's fair comment and seems intuitive but I was looking at it a bit differently. My no doubt flawed thought process in the short amount of time to act had me thinking that whilst the 9c5c can shove and 'cooler' those dominated flopped two pairs that he can have he will still shove some of those for 'value' on some runouts PLUS I can potentially keep in those triple barrel bluffs that were bet-folding turn, ideally the ones with only ~25% equity... but the fact that this board is so dynamic with so many 'bad'/or action killing rivers for both players, coupled with the fact that this two pair combo dominates all the others that have to call it off means it is in fact always a shove. Some of the other two pairs are being played as a check-call though. That's why I thought it was an interesting one to look at.

StayOrGo

Raise (all-in)

With 8 BB's. Check/Raise all in on flop for me, but as played, I will answer the poll.

MynaFrett

Haha! I see that @chkngeorge has voted for call

Tikay10

@FeelGroggy

FeelGroggy

Raise (all-in)

I would be all in with this hand. Your hand doesn't benefit from seeing a river. I would want to go for value now from all his worse one pair hands/ worse 2pairs and charge his draws. Lots of action killers here where you aren't going to stack 9x or an overpair or 6x with a heart. On average opponents bet too equity based so even more reason to shove your hand. Opponent is supposed to find some very bad hands to bet turn with like Q2 no heart but lots of players won't find these, and they will bet turn too much with a hand like QT with a heart that really doesn't want to bet and face a jam. If you want to trap, trap something like Q5hh that you can call any river with and that leaves lots of his bluffs drawing dead.. You are going to have to make some uncomfortable calldowns on rivers with bluffcatchers sometimes, that's just the reality of poker, but there is no need to turn a value hand that benefits so much from turn jam into a bluffcatcher. Isn't so hard to find a Qh7 Qh3 type hand to bluff jam turn with.

F_Ivanovic

Call

I voted call but after i checked it again properly I agree that it feels like a clear jam for reasons Groggy said. Worse 2 pair hands can just call i think and yeh you definitely need some traps in your range as well as hands that will bluff catch river. (7h9x) comes to mind

MynaFrett

Thanks for all the votes and the great posts so far. I think Groggy and Ivanovic pretty much summed it all up perfectly in the end there but feel free to continue to vote or post your own opinions particularly if you voted for 'call' and maybe have a slightly different take on things. I see @Arrogant is the lone ranger voting for 'fold' and I'm not sure if it's a genuine vote or he's just being a contrarian... if that's a genuine vote for an exploitative fold I'd love to hear your thoughts, if it's just a troll then GG.

MAXALLY

Fold

I went for fold.....as @chkngeorge always has it or always gets there

Arrogant

Fold

That turn bet is a milker bet on that board. Id fold, 2nd best option call, worst option jam. Jam would be better option for well known aggro player where u might get called by worse, but ur rep is probably not in that bracket, and because of that there is also the possibility its an info bet knowing u wont jam with a bluff, but like maxally says this guy runs insane so id be 90% confident u were being milked here.

MynaFrett

Arrogant said:

Jam would be better option for well known aggro player where u might get called by worse, but ur rep is probably not in that bracket... and because of that there is also the possibility its an info bet knowing u wont jam with a bluff,

Reports of my nittiness are greatly exaggerated. I'm even capable of running a (very small one street and immediately shut down) bluff vs the maestro

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Super_Oli	Small blind		20.00	20.00	3940.00
MynaFrett	Big blind		40.00	60.00	2295.00
	Your hole cards	3 A
FeelGroggy	Raise		80.00	140.00	4032.50
scooby125	Fold
Lawbob	Fold
shad8604	Fold
Super_Oli	Fold
MynaFrett	Call		40.00	180.00	2255.00
Flop
		K 2 6
MynaFrett	Check
FeelGroggy	Bet		135.00	315.00	3897.50
MynaFrett	Raise		350.00	665.00	1905.00
FeelGroggy	Call		215.00	880.00	3682.50
Turn
		J
MynaFrett	Check
FeelGroggy	Bet		720.00	1600.00	2962.50
MynaFrett	Fold
FeelGroggy	Muck
FeelGroggy	Win		880.00		3842.50
FeelGroggy	Return		720.00	0.00	4562.50