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NHS cleaner who took 400 sick days in four years wins £50,000 compensation

HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
edited January 20 in The Rail
NHS nurse wrongly suspended for two years after patient claimed she was pregnant with his child


https://uk.yahoo.com/news/nhs-nurse-wrongly-suspended-two-152454609.html
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Comments

  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,875
    Always find these sort of cases fascinating. Not least because (in what now seems like a former life) I used to deal with this sort of stuff.

    The first thing to say is that that Chief Operating Officer should hang his head in shame.

    Delays can happen in this sort of case. There are genuine complications-for example, getting evidence from someone with mental health problems is a nightmare.

    I expect that some of the delays were caused deliberately by the employee, or her advisers. Not least because she had no protection from Unfair Dismissal until she had 2 years' service. That and she would have been receiving full pay while not having to do any work (her loss of earnings will relate to overtime and lack of pay rise etc).

    It took a year to have a disciplinary hearing. But the outcome was abundantly clear. The allegations were not upheld. Forget the "lack of evidence" bit. They were not upheld. And the COO seems to have taken it upon himself not to communicate this to the employee. Not to reinstate her. And to hold some sort of secret appeal to which only he was privy. Where he is Judge and Jury. And no-one gets to give evidence. That is not the way these things work. And whoever was in charge of HR appears to have lacked a spine to tell him that. You cannot "subsequently review" anything. That is the "double jeopardy" bit

    Then we have the nonsense about the police involvement. At no time has she been charged with anything. I do not believe there was any reason why she should not be working at the same place of work. But, in the unlikely event that was not deemed appropriate, this is a large employer. With multiple hospitals and other places of work. She was clearly suspended without any cause (never mind a good cause) since the Disciplinary Hearing.

    A Grievance doesn't have to be called that to be one. I have every confidence she complained on advice, and was secretly delighted that she was ignored. Which is no way to run a business. If someone is accused of doing something terrible, it is vital to be able to show that the Employer is seeking to ensure that an innocent person will be able to return to work.

    I doubt she will get a large amount of money. The biggest waste was the extra 14 months pay she received without having to work.

    If that matter was in a normal business, heads would roll. But it is only taxpayers' money...
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
    Essexphil said:

    Always find these sort of cases fascinating. Not least because (in what now seems like a former life) I used to deal with this sort of stuff.

    The first thing to say is that that Chief Operating Officer should hang his head in shame.

    Delays can happen in this sort of case. There are genuine complications-for example, getting evidence from someone with mental health problems is a nightmare.

    I expect that some of the delays were caused deliberately by the employee, or her advisers. Not least because she had no protection from Unfair Dismissal until she had 2 years' service. That and she would have been receiving full pay while not having to do any work (her loss of earnings will relate to overtime and lack of pay rise etc).

    It took a year to have a disciplinary hearing. But the outcome was abundantly clear. The allegations were not upheld. Forget the "lack of evidence" bit. They were not upheld. And the COO seems to have taken it upon himself not to communicate this to the employee. Not to reinstate her. And to hold some sort of secret appeal to which only he was privy. Where he is Judge and Jury. And no-one gets to give evidence. That is not the way these things work. And whoever was in charge of HR appears to have lacked a spine to tell him that. You cannot "subsequently review" anything. That is the "double jeopardy" bit

    Then we have the nonsense about the police involvement. At no time has she been charged with anything. I do not believe there was any reason why she should not be working at the same place of work. But, in the unlikely event that was not deemed appropriate, this is a large employer. With multiple hospitals and other places of work. She was clearly suspended without any cause (never mind a good cause) since the Disciplinary Hearing.

    A Grievance doesn't have to be called that to be one. I have every confidence she complained on advice, and was secretly delighted that she was ignored. Which is no way to run a business. If someone is accused of doing something terrible, it is vital to be able to show that the Employer is seeking to ensure that an innocent person will be able to return to work.

    I doubt she will get a large amount of money. The biggest waste was the extra 14 months pay she received without having to work.

    If that matter was in a normal business, heads would roll. But it is only taxpayers' money...

    Was she even pregnant?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
    Essexphil said:

    Always find these sort of cases fascinating. Not least because (in what now seems like a former life) I used to deal with this sort of stuff.

    The first thing to say is that that Chief Operating Officer should hang his head in shame.

    Delays can happen in this sort of case. There are genuine complications-for example, getting evidence from someone with mental health problems is a nightmare.

    I expect that some of the delays were caused deliberately by the employee, or her advisers. Not least because she had no protection from Unfair Dismissal until she had 2 years' service. That and she would have been receiving full pay while not having to do any work (her loss of earnings will relate to overtime and lack of pay rise etc).

    It took a year to have a disciplinary hearing. But the outcome was abundantly clear. The allegations were not upheld. Forget the "lack of evidence" bit. They were not upheld. And the COO seems to have taken it upon himself not to communicate this to the employee. Not to reinstate her. And to hold some sort of secret appeal to which only he was privy. Where he is Judge and Jury. And no-one gets to give evidence. That is not the way these things work. And whoever was in charge of HR appears to have lacked a spine to tell him that. You cannot "subsequently review" anything. That is the "double jeopardy" bit

    Then we have the nonsense about the police involvement. At no time has she been charged with anything. I do not believe there was any reason why she should not be working at the same place of work. But, in the unlikely event that was not deemed appropriate, this is a large employer. With multiple hospitals and other places of work. She was clearly suspended without any cause (never mind a good cause) since the Disciplinary Hearing.

    A Grievance doesn't have to be called that to be one. I have every confidence she complained on advice, and was secretly delighted that she was ignored. Which is no way to run a business. If someone is accused of doing something terrible, it is vital to be able to show that the Employer is seeking to ensure that an innocent person will be able to return to work.

    I doubt she will get a large amount of money. The biggest waste was the extra 14 months pay she received without having to work.

    If that matter was in a normal business, heads would roll. But it is only taxpayers' money...

    Do hospitals have security cameras?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
    Essexphil said:

    Always find these sort of cases fascinating. Not least because (in what now seems like a former life) I used to deal with this sort of stuff.

    The first thing to say is that that Chief Operating Officer should hang his head in shame.

    Delays can happen in this sort of case. There are genuine complications-for example, getting evidence from someone with mental health problems is a nightmare.

    I expect that some of the delays were caused deliberately by the employee, or her advisers. Not least because she had no protection from Unfair Dismissal until she had 2 years' service. That and she would have been receiving full pay while not having to do any work (her loss of earnings will relate to overtime and lack of pay rise etc).

    It took a year to have a disciplinary hearing. But the outcome was abundantly clear. The allegations were not upheld. Forget the "lack of evidence" bit. They were not upheld. And the COO seems to have taken it upon himself not to communicate this to the employee. Not to reinstate her. And to hold some sort of secret appeal to which only he was privy. Where he is Judge and Jury. And no-one gets to give evidence. That is not the way these things work. And whoever was in charge of HR appears to have lacked a spine to tell him that. You cannot "subsequently review" anything. That is the "double jeopardy" bit

    Then we have the nonsense about the police involvement. At no time has she been charged with anything. I do not believe there was any reason why she should not be working at the same place of work. But, in the unlikely event that was not deemed appropriate, this is a large employer. With multiple hospitals and other places of work. She was clearly suspended without any cause (never mind a good cause) since the Disciplinary Hearing.

    A Grievance doesn't have to be called that to be one. I have every confidence she complained on advice, and was secretly delighted that she was ignored. Which is no way to run a business. If someone is accused of doing something terrible, it is vital to be able to show that the Employer is seeking to ensure that an innocent person will be able to return to work.

    I doubt she will get a large amount of money. The biggest waste was the extra 14 months pay she received without having to work.

    If that matter was in a normal business, heads would roll. But it is only taxpayers' money...

    They were investigating the patients death.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,875
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Always find these sort of cases fascinating. Not least because (in what now seems like a former life) I used to deal with this sort of stuff.

    The first thing to say is that that Chief Operating Officer should hang his head in shame.

    Delays can happen in this sort of case. There are genuine complications-for example, getting evidence from someone with mental health problems is a nightmare.

    I expect that some of the delays were caused deliberately by the employee, or her advisers. Not least because she had no protection from Unfair Dismissal until she had 2 years' service. That and she would have been receiving full pay while not having to do any work (her loss of earnings will relate to overtime and lack of pay rise etc).

    It took a year to have a disciplinary hearing. But the outcome was abundantly clear. The allegations were not upheld. Forget the "lack of evidence" bit. They were not upheld. And the COO seems to have taken it upon himself not to communicate this to the employee. Not to reinstate her. And to hold some sort of secret appeal to which only he was privy. Where he is Judge and Jury. And no-one gets to give evidence. That is not the way these things work. And whoever was in charge of HR appears to have lacked a spine to tell him that. You cannot "subsequently review" anything. That is the "double jeopardy" bit

    Then we have the nonsense about the police involvement. At no time has she been charged with anything. I do not believe there was any reason why she should not be working at the same place of work. But, in the unlikely event that was not deemed appropriate, this is a large employer. With multiple hospitals and other places of work. She was clearly suspended without any cause (never mind a good cause) since the Disciplinary Hearing.

    A Grievance doesn't have to be called that to be one. I have every confidence she complained on advice, and was secretly delighted that she was ignored. Which is no way to run a business. If someone is accused of doing something terrible, it is vital to be able to show that the Employer is seeking to ensure that an innocent person will be able to return to work.

    I doubt she will get a large amount of money. The biggest waste was the extra 14 months pay she received without having to work.

    If that matter was in a normal business, heads would roll. But it is only taxpayers' money...

    They were investigating the patients death.
    Not saying that is irrelevant full stop. I'm saying it is irrelevant in her being suspended.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Always find these sort of cases fascinating. Not least because (in what now seems like a former life) I used to deal with this sort of stuff.

    The first thing to say is that that Chief Operating Officer should hang his head in shame.

    Delays can happen in this sort of case. There are genuine complications-for example, getting evidence from someone with mental health problems is a nightmare.

    I expect that some of the delays were caused deliberately by the employee, or her advisers. Not least because she had no protection from Unfair Dismissal until she had 2 years' service. That and she would have been receiving full pay while not having to do any work (her loss of earnings will relate to overtime and lack of pay rise etc).

    It took a year to have a disciplinary hearing. But the outcome was abundantly clear. The allegations were not upheld. Forget the "lack of evidence" bit. They were not upheld. And the COO seems to have taken it upon himself not to communicate this to the employee. Not to reinstate her. And to hold some sort of secret appeal to which only he was privy. Where he is Judge and Jury. And no-one gets to give evidence. That is not the way these things work. And whoever was in charge of HR appears to have lacked a spine to tell him that. You cannot "subsequently review" anything. That is the "double jeopardy" bit

    Then we have the nonsense about the police involvement. At no time has she been charged with anything. I do not believe there was any reason why she should not be working at the same place of work. But, in the unlikely event that was not deemed appropriate, this is a large employer. With multiple hospitals and other places of work. She was clearly suspended without any cause (never mind a good cause) since the Disciplinary Hearing.

    A Grievance doesn't have to be called that to be one. I have every confidence she complained on advice, and was secretly delighted that she was ignored. Which is no way to run a business. If someone is accused of doing something terrible, it is vital to be able to show that the Employer is seeking to ensure that an innocent person will be able to return to work.

    I doubt she will get a large amount of money. The biggest waste was the extra 14 months pay she received without having to work.

    If that matter was in a normal business, heads would roll. But it is only taxpayers' money...

    They were investigating the patients death.
    Not saying that is irrelevant full stop. I'm saying it is irrelevant in her being suspended.
    I am agreeing.
    I am presuming that she was suspended, and not working when the poor man died.
    If the police were investigating his death, it could surely have nothing to do with her case.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,875
    edited November 2024
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Always find these sort of cases fascinating. Not least because (in what now seems like a former life) I used to deal with this sort of stuff.

    The first thing to say is that that Chief Operating Officer should hang his head in shame.

    Delays can happen in this sort of case. There are genuine complications-for example, getting evidence from someone with mental health problems is a nightmare.

    I expect that some of the delays were caused deliberately by the employee, or her advisers. Not least because she had no protection from Unfair Dismissal until she had 2 years' service. That and she would have been receiving full pay while not having to do any work (her loss of earnings will relate to overtime and lack of pay rise etc).

    It took a year to have a disciplinary hearing. But the outcome was abundantly clear. The allegations were not upheld. Forget the "lack of evidence" bit. They were not upheld. And the COO seems to have taken it upon himself not to communicate this to the employee. Not to reinstate her. And to hold some sort of secret appeal to which only he was privy. Where he is Judge and Jury. And no-one gets to give evidence. That is not the way these things work. And whoever was in charge of HR appears to have lacked a spine to tell him that. You cannot "subsequently review" anything. That is the "double jeopardy" bit

    Then we have the nonsense about the police involvement. At no time has she been charged with anything. I do not believe there was any reason why she should not be working at the same place of work. But, in the unlikely event that was not deemed appropriate, this is a large employer. With multiple hospitals and other places of work. She was clearly suspended without any cause (never mind a good cause) since the Disciplinary Hearing.

    A Grievance doesn't have to be called that to be one. I have every confidence she complained on advice, and was secretly delighted that she was ignored. Which is no way to run a business. If someone is accused of doing something terrible, it is vital to be able to show that the Employer is seeking to ensure that an innocent person will be able to return to work.

    I doubt she will get a large amount of money. The biggest waste was the extra 14 months pay she received without having to work.

    If that matter was in a normal business, heads would roll. But it is only taxpayers' money...

    They were investigating the patients death.
    Not saying that is irrelevant full stop. I'm saying it is irrelevant in her being suspended.
    I am agreeing.
    I am presuming that she was suspended, and not working when the poor man died.
    If the police were investigating his death, it could surely have nothing to do with her case.
    Exactly.
    And, in the unlikely event that was not the case (causes of death in this sort of case can be complex and/or long drawn out), even an employer as thick as this one just might have used that as a reason to suspend and/or dismiss, either at the time or at Tribunal.

    Often difficult to ascertain Judge's reasoning from a newspaper article. In this particular instance, I get the distinct impression he disliked both sides
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Always find these sort of cases fascinating. Not least because (in what now seems like a former life) I used to deal with this sort of stuff.

    The first thing to say is that that Chief Operating Officer should hang his head in shame.

    Delays can happen in this sort of case. There are genuine complications-for example, getting evidence from someone with mental health problems is a nightmare.

    I expect that some of the delays were caused deliberately by the employee, or her advisers. Not least because she had no protection from Unfair Dismissal until she had 2 years' service. That and she would have been receiving full pay while not having to do any work (her loss of earnings will relate to overtime and lack of pay rise etc).

    It took a year to have a disciplinary hearing. But the outcome was abundantly clear. The allegations were not upheld. Forget the "lack of evidence" bit. They were not upheld. And the COO seems to have taken it upon himself not to communicate this to the employee. Not to reinstate her. And to hold some sort of secret appeal to which only he was privy. Where he is Judge and Jury. And no-one gets to give evidence. That is not the way these things work. And whoever was in charge of HR appears to have lacked a spine to tell him that. You cannot "subsequently review" anything. That is the "double jeopardy" bit

    Then we have the nonsense about the police involvement. At no time has she been charged with anything. I do not believe there was any reason why she should not be working at the same place of work. But, in the unlikely event that was not deemed appropriate, this is a large employer. With multiple hospitals and other places of work. She was clearly suspended without any cause (never mind a good cause) since the Disciplinary Hearing.

    A Grievance doesn't have to be called that to be one. I have every confidence she complained on advice, and was secretly delighted that she was ignored. Which is no way to run a business. If someone is accused of doing something terrible, it is vital to be able to show that the Employer is seeking to ensure that an innocent person will be able to return to work.

    I doubt she will get a large amount of money. The biggest waste was the extra 14 months pay she received without having to work.

    If that matter was in a normal business, heads would roll. But it is only taxpayers' money...

    They were investigating the patients death.
    Not saying that is irrelevant full stop. I'm saying it is irrelevant in her being suspended.
    I am agreeing.
    I am presuming that she was suspended, and not working when the poor man died.
    If the police were investigating his death, it could surely have nothing to do with her case.
    Exactly.
    And, in the unlikely event that was not the case (causes of death in this sort of case can be complex and/or long drawn out), even an employer as thick as this one just might have used that as a reason to suspend and/or dismiss, either at the time or at Tribunal.

    Often difficult to ascertain Judge's reasoning from a newspaper article. In this particular instance, I get the distinct impression he disliked both sides

    Wouldnt disagree.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,875
    Every year we get these exact same stories. With the Press pretending it is all new, and that they didn't write the exact same stories last year. Or, for that matter, next year.

    And every single year, some cretin from another planet says it is all down to lack of money. As though that is the only cause. And that it is all the fault of the Government and (presumably) the Taxpayer. And that the tens of thousands of medical staff, and tens of thousands of Managers are somehow not relevant.

    There is an increased demand on medical services. Not this Winter. Every Winter. And the NHS, one of the largest and best-funded employers in the World, appears to believe it is not their job to have contingency planning. Everyone in every job would like more money. But that doesn't mean that it is not essential to do your best with the resources you have got.

    Anyone can see that a corridor is not the answer. There is a need to temporarily reassign space to deal with the overflow. This Winter. And every Winter.

    The overflow won't be as good as the regular wards. But it will be able to provide a dignified level of care. And show that the NHS cares about Health.

    This isn't a dig at the thousands of Staff working their buns off. Doing their absolute best to care for people.

    It is the pathetic lack of Contingency planning.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,875
    edited January 19
    Last bit of rant-promise ;)

    We have an NHS with a total budget of roughly £200 Billion. With roughly 1.2 million employees.

    It has critical care needs that increase every Winter. So could someone please tell me why:-

    1. There is no restriction reducing time off in the Winter; and

    2. Why no resources for non-critical care (both space and surgery) are not reallocated for the Winter months?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
    Essexphil said:

    Last bit of rant-promise ;)

    We have an NHS with a total budget of roughly £200 Billion. With roughly 1.2 million employees.

    It has critical care needs that increase every Winter. So could someone please tell me why:-

    1. There is no restriction reducing time off in the Winter; and

    2. Why no resources for non-critical care (both space and surgery) are not reallocated for the Winter months?

    A social care system that reduced bed blocking might also help.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,875
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Last bit of rant-promise ;)

    We have an NHS with a total budget of roughly £200 Billion. With roughly 1.2 million employees.

    It has critical care needs that increase every Winter. So could someone please tell me why:-

    1. There is no restriction reducing time off in the Winter; and

    2. Why no resources for non-critical care (both space and surgery) are not reallocated for the Winter months?

    A social care system that reduced bed blocking might also help.
    Undoubtedly.

    However, that requires massive spending and reallocation of resources. Realistically, too late to provide meaningful solutions for this Winter
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Last bit of rant-promise ;)

    We have an NHS with a total budget of roughly £200 Billion. With roughly 1.2 million employees.

    It has critical care needs that increase every Winter. So could someone please tell me why:-

    1. There is no restriction reducing time off in the Winter; and

    2. Why no resources for non-critical care (both space and surgery) are not reallocated for the Winter months?

    A social care system that reduced bed blocking might also help.
    Undoubtedly.

    However, that requires massive spending and reallocation of resources. Realistically, too late to provide meaningful solutions for this Winter
    True, but as you said this happens every Winter.
    You have also said previously, that our politicians need to start thinking in the longer term.
  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,582
    The NHS employs 1.34 million people. Just over 1/3rd of those are doctors and nurses. That's probably part of the problem and the fact that the general public are overwhelmingly unhealthy, some through age, but many through poor diet and lack of exercise and belief that they will get fixed by the NHS if something goes wrong. Oh and overpopulation, the UK is massively overpopulated for the care facilities we have.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,777
    NHS cleaner who took 400 sick days in four years wins £50,000 compensation


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/nhs-cleaner-took-400-sick-130415088.html
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