Failed By The State.

HAYSIE

HAYSIE

HAYSIE

HAYSIE

HAYSIE

Slipwater

I can't even begin to tell you how angry it makes me, thinking of those murders in Southport.

Essexphil

Appalling murders. My heart goes out to the families of the bereaved and the injured.

It is understandable that people want a measure of vengeance. But the narrative is, IMHO, moving in the wrong direction.

A 17-year-old, with obvious serious mental health problems, carried out a truly terrible crime. I really don't care whether he gets a "whole life" tariff, or gets a Minimum of 52 years before he can be considered for parole. Why? Because he is never going to be released. He is going to have spent at least 52 years, almost certainly in solitary confinement or with a very small group. He's not coming out-he will be irreversibly institutionalised. Good. And don't give him the chance to appeal against a "whole of life" order. Don't even let him have a day out in Court trying.

Let something good come out if this appalling crime. Let's start with buying knives on Amazon. We are putting things the wrong way round. We are trying to say what hoops Amazon will need to jump through. Rather than placing the onus on them. Because they are very good at getting round rules that apply to others

The answer is simple. Place the onus on Amazon to provide proof that they have done everything reasonable to stop children buying weapons. In exactly the same way as real shops have to. Or charge them with Criminal Offences and/or ban their ability to sell weapons. In exactly the same way as happens to real shops.

I know it is problematic, due to the fact that many common household items can be weapons. But-tough. Price worth paying.

HAYSIE

Essexphil said:

Appalling murders. My heart goes out to the families of the bereaved and the injured.

It is understandable that people want a measure of vengeance. But the narrative is, IMHO, moving in the wrong direction.

A 17-year-old, with obvious serious mental health problems, carried out a truly terrible crime. I really don't care whether he gets a "whole life" tariff, or gets a Minimum of 52 years before he can be considered for parole. Why? Because he is never going to be released. He is going to have spent at least 52 years, almost certainly in solitary confinement or with a very small group. He's not coming out-he will be irreversibly institutionalised. Good. And don't give him the chance to appeal against a "whole of life" order. Don't even let him have a day out in Court trying.

Let something good come out if this appalling crime. Let's start with buying knives on Amazon. We are putting things the wrong way round. We are trying to say what hoops Amazon will need to jump through. Rather than placing the onus on them. Because they are very good at getting round rules that apply to others

The answer is simple. Place the onus on Amazon to provide proof that they have done everything reasonable to stop children buying weapons. In exactly the same way as real shops have to. Or charge them with Criminal Offences and/or ban their ability to sell weapons. In exactly the same way as happens to real shops.

I know it is problematic, due to the fact that many common household items can be weapons. But-tough. Price worth paying.

Something else we can agree on.

HAYSIE

MoJ responds after reports Southport killer Axel Rudakubana was beaten up in Strangeways prison


https://uk.yahoo.com/news/moj-responds-reports-southport-killer-154005743.html

Tikay10

I was among those who was sent a WhatsApp VoiceCall yesterday (7 of them, all the same, all from different people) in which it was alleged "on my life" - that the guy had been beaten up. It was, to my mind, the most obvious hoax message ever ever ever. And yet people believed it. Since when did we become such a gullible society?

In fact the whole story was a hoax, & was started by an anti-immigration Twitter Account.

The Southport Murders were a catastrophic tragedy but people playing the race card should be ashamed. The rumour that the attacks were carried out by an illegal immigrant sprung up within hours, & were even implied on this Forum within 24 hours of the tragedy.

This whole "misinformation" thing ("lies" is a better word) will get worse now that the Social Media giants have dispended with fact-checking, so the racists and right-wing whackjobs have soon jumped in & taken advantage.

The Law has yet to properly grasp the world of Online, but it has to, & soon. In the absence of an ordered Online Society, the racists and conspiracy theorists are having a field day.

HAYSIE

Tikay10 said:

I was among those who was sent a WhatsApp VoiceCall yesterday (7 of them, all the same, all from different people) in which it was alleged "on my life" - that the guy had been beaten up. It was, to my mind, the most obvious hoax message ever ever ever. And yet people believed it. Since when did we become such a gullible society?

In fact the whole story was a hoax, & was started by an anti-immigration Twitter Account.

The Southport Murders were a catastrophic tragedy but people playing the race card should be ashamed. The rumour that the attacks were carried out by an illegal immigrant sprung up within hours, & were even implied on this Forum within 24 hours of the tragedy.

This whole "misinformation" thing ("lies" is a better word) will get worse now that the Social Media giants have dispended with fact-checking, so the racists and right-wing whackjobs have soon jumped in & taken advantage.

The Law has yet to properly grasp the world of Online, but it has to, & soon. In the absence of an ordered Online Society, the racists and conspiracy theorists are having a field day.

They didnt even get the prison right.

HAYSIE

HAYSIE

Essexphil

As an outsider, I feel I can have a balanced view. Frankly, I doubt I could be objective if it was my son, my daughter, or my father.

But I feel I have to say that calling for Doctor's names to be released is just plain wrong. People are doing their jobs to the best of their ability. And there is undoubtedly the need for internal reviews-the long period of time this man was left to his own devices, given his frequent recent episodes, was deeply worrying.

But these people work in underfunded jobs. Desperately under-resourced in terms of long-term residential care. Publicly naming the Doctors involved does not help. All it does is create hatred, and cause yet more Doctors to move away from Mental Health provision.

The O'Malley-Kumars are both Health Professionals. A GP and an Anaesthetist. Who would no doubt agree that they have to be allowed to do their jobs to the best of their ability. Without some form of public witch hunt should any decision they make later turn out to be wrong.

It is the system that needs a public review. And if there are any employment issues, that should be in private.

HAYSIE

Essexphil said:

As an outsider, I feel I can have a balanced view. Frankly, I doubt I could be objective if it was my son, my daughter, or my father.

But I feel I have to say that calling for Doctor's names to be released is just plain wrong. People are doing their jobs to the best of their ability. And there is undoubtedly the need for internal reviews-the long period of time this man was left to his own devices, given his frequent recent episodes, was deeply worrying.

But these people work in underfunded jobs. Desperately under-resourced in terms of long-term residential care. Publicly naming the Doctors involved does not help. All it does is create hatred, and cause yet more Doctors to move away from Mental Health provision.

The O'Malley-Kumars are both Health Professionals. A GP and an Anaesthetist. Who would no doubt agree that they have to be allowed to do their jobs to the best of their ability. Without some form of public witch hunt should any decision they make later turn out to be wrong.

It is the system that needs a public review. And if there are any employment issues, that should be in private.

Naming doctors or judges will not accomplish anything positive.
This just appears to be yet another "lessons will be learnt" story.