In Response to Re: Advice please...... : [QUOTE ]Surely this is like the easiest decision in the world :S i dont understand why you wold fold... in the words of the WSOP commentator... is it jessie may or sumin like that? 'what is he waiting for?! pocket quads??' Posted by BlackFish3
To you & me, maybe, yes, an easy call. but he's quite inexperienced, & was seeking advice as to not just WHAT he should have done, but why . The WSOP commentator you are thinking of is Mr Norman Chad. Jesse does not do WSOP commentary. Posted by Tikay10
thats it... norman chad is amazing lol. where did i get jessie may from? i know poker obvs... but what show?
I would consider open folding in this spot. But the most important thing here is knowing why you are doing any action and knowing how you are going to react to the actions of others so you have already got your decision ready.
If you raise here you should already decide how to react to a shove. Whether to take a flip or not. Even if you are up against AQ or AJ you're still not a lock preflop. You decide before your action if you are willing to put your tourney life on the line in a probably coinflip or if you want to open fold to ladder further, or if you want to raise for the blinds or build a pot for the flop with the intention to fold to an all in to protect your stack.
Remember, why you are doing these actions are all important. To give you an opinion as to how I would of played the hand I'd need to know a lot more about position, relative stack sizes etc.
I would consider open folding in this spot. But the most important thing here is knowing why you are doing any action and knowing how you are going to react to the actions of others so you have already got your decision ready. If you raise here you should already decide how to react to a shove. Whether to take a flip or not. Even if you are up against AQ or AJ you're still not a lock preflop. You decide before your action if you are willing to put your tourney life on the line in a probably coinflip or if you want to open fold to ladder further, or if you want to raise for the blinds or build a pot for the flop with the intention to fold to an all in to protect your stack. Remember, why you are doing these actions are all important. To give you an opinion as to how I would of played the hand I'd need to know a lot more about position, relative stack sizes etc. Posted by TommyD
Pls dont open fold AK especially not 6 handed. Posted by beaneh
I said I would consider it but the most important thing about any action is that we know why we are doing it, not just doing it because we are told we should. And there are spots to open fold AK, as well as spots to shove AK, as well as spots to three/four bet with AK and so on and so forth.
Tell you what, I want to be the one whos pushed with the PP and Im saying please, please, please call me with just A high Posted by acebarry10
I'm willing to take AK v 77 this deep everytime because the 4/5/6 times you win with it you have a stack capable of winning the tournament.
A) You don't know what hes shoved all in with If he had AQ there would you still say you'd of folded, or say if the poster had decided not to put the result in before asking his question 99% of people would be saying all in. Results orientated.
In Response to Re: Advice please...... : To you & me, maybe, yes, an easy call. but he's quite inexperienced, & was seeking advice as to not just WHAT he should have done, but why . The WSOP commentator you are thinking of is Mr Norman Chad. Jesse does not do WSOP commentary. Posted by Tikay10
thats it... norman chad is amazing lol. where did i get jessie may from? i know poker obvs... but what show? Posted by BlackFish3
Jesse My does all the "made for TV" Matchroom stuff these days, & as such, has almost a stranglehold on TV Poker Commentary on "Big Telly".
He was the commentator for "Late Night Poker" - the original series, when you were still a boy, I'd imagine - & he actually played in one heat under a pseudonym, "Mickey Dane". Mickey Dane is also the main character in a book he wrote, "Shut Up & Deal". The "Dane" surname came from his place of residence these days - Denmark, though he is American by birth.
His wife, Jckie, is a professional poker photographer, & is said to own the largest database of poker player's photographs in the world.
Jesse was at one time the Editor of CardPlayer Europe.
He is a Ltd Company, if that makes sense, & his company name is "Luckbox Entertainment"!
He is a fine poker player, too, &, off-screen, a very funny, warm & endearing man.
Hi "....I finished 14th, my name is STUPENDOUS and although I was pleased with my performance, I am slightly annoyed with myself for going out. I had about 178000 chips and raised 4times the blind 32000 with AK suited and chewy42310(who made the final table) went all in. I wasnt sure whether to fold and lose 32000 chips but still be in the tournament or go for it. As I had AK suited, I went 'all in'. Chewy had a pair of 7's and needless to say they held up and I went out. I know I would have made the final table had i won the hand, was my move understandable or reckless? I think Chewy was brave as I think I would have folded a raise with a pair of 7's. Regards....." Posted by Tikay10
fold,fold and somemore... in my opinion, the worst hand to get carried away with is ''Suited Slick'' i mean if you had gone all in off the bounceand he called then, i would feel sorry for you; however you raise xtimes the BB and and Chewy goes all in, so what if you limped and he went all in? would you have called? i mean you could well have been up against the rockets for all you know. i say play ''slick'' suited or not always as off suit ; then you will not be carried away with its immense powers. I'm assuming if it was offsuit you would have chucked it as fast as it came too... well maybe not as fast but you would have chucked it either way. The amount of times you will loose a hand in that situation is 50% and at the mini bubble, it was a crude way to have played ''Ana''
100% call IMO, to win a tourney you're almost certainly going to have to win a coin-flip like this sooner or later. If you're happy just to get blinded out and maybe gain a few places on the leaderboard it's a fold, but when you're that deep and you want to win there's no time to sit around waiting all day for pocket AA or KK to shove with.
The amount of times you will loose a hand in that situation is 50% and at the mini bubble, it was a crude way to have played ''Ana'' Posted by MAGGIHATS
50%? Then its a certain call surely?
50% of the time you will end up with 15-18 BBs and be shoving any two cards, and 50% of the time you will ahve the chips needed to take down a big win. I am going for the stack every time.
And without running a calc, i am debating your 50% too. The only 2 cards im scared off here are AA and KK, anything else we are 50% at WORST and possibly dominating.
My take on this? I do as he did - I'm not folding at that stage, in that spot, almost ever. He can just as easily have A-Q, A-J, or even be re-stealing with air. And if he has a pair, we are still even money. This is our chance to get a Tourney-winning stack, & I'm not backing down. I prefer, in an ideal world, to be the shover, or re-shover, as it increases my odds if I can force a fold, but we don't always have that luxury. But it's a very "sharp" structure at that stage, & whether we like it or not, we have to take our races at this stage. And to win Tourneys, we have to win our races. The longer a Tourney goes on, the bigger the Blinds are, the more powerful A-K becomes. I'm calling there every time. The other guys play, with the 7's? I'm not interested in what he does, or how or why he does it. We can't change HIS play, all we can do is optimise ours. It's not relevant, or helpful, to debate his play - it's OUR play which we have control over. For me, Mr Stupendous, you played it correctly. Posted by Tikay10
thank you for your advice and everyone elses varied opinion. On the whole it seems most people, including your wise self, think i played it correctly, better luck next time. ....at least my conquerer chewy went on to win.
yes u was deep in the tourney i think right move at the begining of a tourney no amount of times i have gopne out of torneys with ak is unreal against a small pocket pair your only 30% chance of hitting ace or the king
In a BH at this stage it's an automatic call. I had the same in the Primo on Sunday in about 8th position. I called with the AK, and he had Js (he had been all in a few times, and so that widens his range). The AK held up, and I cashed well. On the flip-side I was playing in the old 5-0 (what a great tournament - can we have it back?) I had AK. The week before I had bubbled (and it's a £250 bubble). There was a riase and a re-raise before it got to me. I folded, and DP Fitzgerald and Caspar couldn't believe their eyes, both pointing out that in a fast structure if you don't play AK, you might as well give up. As it happens the 2 shovers (as they ended up) had AQ and 99. The 99 tripped up, and I'd have been left with a chip and a chair and little else. The epitaph to this story is that i made the cash, and eventually won the tournament. Sometimes it's a gut thing (I know a raise and re-raise is different to the question above).
Comments
Posted by Tikay10
thats it... norman chad is amazing lol. where did i get jessie may from? i know poker obvs... but what show?
call, call, call......
in it to win it
I'm willing to take AK v 77 this deep everytime because the 4/5/6 times you win with it you have a stack capable of winning the tournament.
A) You don't know what hes shoved all in with
Posted by BlackFish3
Jesse My does all the "made for TV" Matchroom stuff these days, & as such, has almost a stranglehold on TV Poker Commentary on "Big Telly".
He was the commentator for "Late Night Poker" - the original series, when you were still a boy, I'd imagine - & he actually played in one heat under a pseudonym, "Mickey Dane". Mickey Dane is also the main character in a book he wrote, "Shut Up & Deal". The "Dane" surname came from his place of residence these days - Denmark, though he is American by birth.
His wife, Jckie, is a professional poker photographer, & is said to own the largest database of poker player's photographs in the world.
Jesse was at one time the Editor of CardPlayer Europe.
He is a Ltd Company, if that makes sense, & his company name is "Luckbox Entertainment"!
He is a fine poker player, too, &, off-screen, a very funny, warm & endearing man.
Hi "....I finished 14th, my name is STUPENDOUS and although I was pleased with my performance, I am slightly annoyed with myself for going out. I had about 178000 chips and raised 4times the blind 32000 with AK suited and chewy42310(who made the final table) went all in. I wasnt sure whether to fold and lose 32000 chips but still be in the tournament or go for it. As I had AK suited, I went 'all in'. Chewy had a pair of 7's and needless to say they held up and I went out. I know I would have made the final table had i won the hand, was my move understandable or reckless? I think Chewy was brave as I think I would have folded a raise with a pair of 7's. Regards....."
Posted by Tikay10
fold,fold and somemore... in my opinion, the worst hand to get carried away with is ''Suited Slick'' i mean if you had gone all in off the bounceand he called then, i would feel sorry for you; however you raise xtimes the BB and and Chewy goes all in, so what if you limped and he went all in? would you have called? i mean you could well have been up against the rockets for all you know. i say play ''slick'' suited or not always as off suit ; then you will not be carried away with its immense powers. I'm assuming if it was offsuit you would have chucked it as fast as it came too... well maybe not as fast but you would have chucked it either way. The amount of times you will loose a hand in that situation is 50% and at the mini bubble, it was a crude way to have played ''Ana''
50%?
Then its a certain call surely?
50% of the time you will end up with 15-18 BBs and be shoving any two cards, and 50% of the time you will ahve the chips needed to take down a big win. I am going for the stack every time.
And without running a calc, i am debating your 50% too. The only 2 cards im scared off here are AA and KK, anything else we are 50% at WORST and possibly dominating.
A call here is the only thing to do.
On the flip-side I was playing in the old 5-0 (what a great tournament - can we have it back?) I had AK. The week before I had bubbled (and it's a £250 bubble). There was a riase and a re-raise before it got to me. I folded, and DP Fitzgerald and Caspar couldn't believe their eyes, both pointing out that in a fast structure if you don't play AK, you might as well give up.
As it happens the 2 shovers (as they ended up) had AQ and 99. The 99 tripped up, and I'd have been left with a chip and a chair and little else.
The epitaph to this story is that i made the cash, and eventually won the tournament. Sometimes it's a gut thing (I know a raise and re-raise is different to the question above).