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Any advice would be great
robc
Member Posts: 521
| old-2s-up | Small blind | £0.04 | £0.04 | £8.27 | |
| becky0020 | Big blind | £0.08 | £0.12 | £16.68 | |
| tim-all-in | Big blind | £0.08 | £0.20 | £3.12 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| FASTFLETCH | Call | £0.08 | £0.28 | £18.32 | |
| ?????????? | Call | £0.08 | £0.36 | £6.06 | |
| tim-all-in | Check | ||||
| robc | Call | £0.08 | £0.44 | £14.34 | |
| old-2s-up | Fold | ||||
| becky0020 | Check | ||||
| Flop | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||
| becky0020 | Check | ||||
| FASTFLETCH | Check | ||||
| ????????? | Bet | £0.16 | £0.60 | £5.90 | |
| tim-all-in | Fold | ||||
| robc | Call | £0.16 | £0.76 | £14.18 | |
| becky0020 | Call | £0.16 | £0.92 | £16.52 | |
| FASTFLETCH | Fold | ||||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| becky0020 | Bet | £0.24 | £1.16 | £16.28 | |
| ?????? | Raise | £0.80 | £1.96 | £5.10 | |
| robc | Raise | £3.56 | £5.52 | £10.62 | |
| becky0020 | Fold | ||||
| ???????? | Call | £2.76 | £8.28 | £2.34 | |
| River | |||||
| |||||
| ???????? | All-in | £2.34 | £10.62 | £0.00 | |
| robc | Call | £2.34 | £12.96 | £8.28 | |
| ???????? | Show |
| |||
| robc | Show |
| |||
| ?????? | Win | Flush to the King | £12.32 | £12. | |
this isn't a bad beat thread or any complaining or anything just wanted to get some advice.
So the reason i decided to get involved in the first place is one player had been seen to chase alot of draws and give away abit of money so was looking to get involved with him and plus the villian was on tilt as he had lost 3 pots with trips recently so also wanted to take advantage of this. i no i should really raise pre but thought i would just call see a flop if i hit big i felt one of these two players may pay me off for the reasons already
stated.
When i seen the flop i decided to just call back i knew he was strong at this point as he was on tilt and he had bet just under half the pot with trips before and since being on tilt he had been betting more aggresivly on these soft flops. for some reason i had him on trips. i thought the call is cheap to try hit my flush.
the turn is where i think i messed it all up with my re raise. his original re raise sets off alarm bells for me as its so small i was expecting the diamond to worry him and him to bet big maybe shove. i make a large re raise with out checking his stack.... i think my raise is to large? as it gives me no chance to get away on the river..this is where i really dont no how much i should be betting here?? as soon as he just called i was almost certain he had the A or K but cant really fold his £2 all in on the river.
Hope it kind of makes sense? just looking to try improve my game i think the fact i knew the villian was on tilt clouded my judgement because the way ive bet he has to put me on a flush or a bluff really. so should of known he had either a worse flush or me beat
Sorry its so long all any replys would be great
Comments
This is a pretty interesting hand. Here's my view on it, for what it's worth...
Preflop - Qd-9d.
This is a matter of taste, but I tend to think that, if I am going to play a hand like Q9s, I will come in for a raise rather than limp. It's marginal, and some times I will limp in too to mix up the hands I am limping/raising with. So long as I am not becoming predictable it's all good.
I prefer raising as it should make your post-flop play a bit easier. Knowing where you're at in a 5-way pot with Q9 if the flop comes J-9-8, Q-T-3 or even a 'monster' flop such as Q-Q-x takes quite a bit of touch and poker savvy. Mine isn't as good as some players so I will try to make my job easier and reduce the field. You're deep stacked as are two of your opponents, so there's definitely an argument for trying to take a flop and see if you can stack someone...
Flop - 5 way, 7d-2c-2d
Firstly, we have to judge the flop texture and how well we think it's hit our opponents' range of hands. Hands like A7/87/76 or even the more exotic T7/97/75 kind of hands have flopped top pair, while the real filthy so-and-so's could have flopped trips with the likes of 42s or the more respectable A2. That's a relatively small range of hands but then we do have the problem of having five of us in the pot, making some of these hands much more likely. All in all, that flop *shouldn't* have helped our opponents all that often.
So, how to play our Q9s? We've got two overs to the 7 and a decent sized flush draw and we're starring at a pot of 44p. Two checks and the player in mid-position (????) bets 16p. Over to us.
What do we think of his 16p bet? That's just over a third of the pot and seems to be either weak or really milky - almost like he wants a call. If it's the first we could raise to try move him off the pot, right? If he calls there we can limit him to A7, and overpair or a deuce.
What other hands might be bet this amount with? Well, flush draws could be in there, along with smaller pairs such as 44 that feel they might be ahead. There's also the chance he's bare-faced bluffing. We need to factor those in to the equation too.
Personally, I would re-raise here to about 65p and shut down unless we make our flush. I'd only be betting one street there too, so if it comes say the Td on the turn I would check the turn and bet/fold the river.
As the hand plays out we call and get one other caller who check-called. Three to the turn.
Turn - 3 way, (7d-2s-2d) 6d.
Bingo! - or so we think. We've made the hand we were calling on the flop for, and the pot is now 92p. All we need to do is figure out how much we're betting when they both check to us, right?
Wrong. The small blind who called behind us now leads out and gets raised! Gulp. We need to think what we're beating here. We've got most 2-x hands beaten, unless we're facing 6-2 or 7-2. (shudder). We've got Ad-7x in a pretty good spot too. Other than that? We're beating very little. Big overpairs to the board with a diamond are a possibility, but I don't think they would have limped with the likes of Jd-Jx, do you? It looks like we're facing at least trips here and more likely a flush. We might have wandered into something more sinister too, like 77/66 and dare I say it, 22....
I think with the amount of action going on here we need to find out right now what if we're beat. If we fold we might be passing to smaller flushes or trips, this is true. I can bear making a mistake for a 96p pot more than I can tolerate doing my £14 stack with the 8th nuts. My first preference would be to fold. My second preference would be to raise and then shut down again if we get called. How much to raise to? Not as much as you made it, I'm afraid. We learn just as much making it £2.20 I would argue. Save the extra few pennies and reduce your bet size here so you don't blow the pot out of proportion. You make it £3.56 to go, effectively committing ???? for their stack. When they call, we know the money is going in on the river anyway...
River - Heads-up, (7d-2s-2d-6d) - Jc
He leads and we're obliged to make a crying call due to the pot offering 5-1. He shows a bigger flush and we rub our backsides.
So, where did we go wrong? I think it has to be the turn. That raise was too big, meaning by the time ??? makes the call we've found out he's committed to the hand and more than likely has us beat. That's never a good situation to find yourself in.
I might have differed as follows:
- * Possibly raise preflop to reduce the field. You have got position after all.
- * Raise the flop. That board looks pretty dry and we've got a hand that has decent chances of improving to the best one. Even if he's tilted/been underbetting strong hands before, the only really strong hands here are 77, overpairs and A2. Not many of those knocking about, so take control of this pot!
- * If we raise the turn, make it less. A bet of ~£2.20 would have told us the same thing and left us with a more manageable pot size.
As it goes, I think you're on the right track with your own analysis which is always a good sign. I am by no means Phil Ivey either, so feel free to rip my thinking up if you disagree; it's what makes this game so much fun after all!Good luck at the tables,
Sky Dave
Regarding if he was £20 deep, I still think it's too much. We're not raising for value, we're raising to find out where we're at in the hand, so the £2.20 odd bet would do the trick I think. Betting £3+ means the pot size is getting big enough that he can play for stacks when really we don't want to be putting all of our money in. Pot control (and stack to pot ratio) is the trick here I would say.
Oh, and if he shoves the turn? I fold. The only hands I can see him doing that with which I beat are those trips with the Ad or a smaller flush. A lot of the times he's going to have us crushed, I would say, but then again perhaps I am just being a nit. If I do make it along to the live poker weekend in Nottingham I'll have people running me over now they've read this... *cough*