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PRIMO 16/05/2010

J-HartiganJ-Hartigan Member Posts: 2,756
edited May 2010 in Poker Chat
It's the name of a poker tournament, a TV show and a size of coffee.  At 8pm, Lisa-Marie Long and I will bring you two out of three!  (Sorry, we can do tea, but not coffee.)

Yes, this is the official thread for tonight's live show.  As both members of the on-air team have recovered from their respective illnesses, there should be fun and frolics galore in the studio.

But there's some serious stuff to talk about as well.  As the in-house "expert", there are two things I really want to focus on this evening...

1) FOLD EQUITY
Does everyone understand what this means?  Do you know how to go from being a 39% underdog to 65% favourite just by pressing the 'All-in' button?

2) RISK AVERSION
An important aspect of tournament poker.  But, when you get into that tricky <20bb territory, you have to be prepared to gamble.  So, why are players with shortish stacks still trying to avoid flips and laying down playable hands?

Please feel free to post your thoughts and questions on these topics - or any other poker-related subjects for that matter - in this thread.  Also, once Primo's underway, please post the ID numbers of hands from the tournament you'd like to see shown on the telly.

See you laters,

James.

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Comments

  • barnsiebarnsie Member Posts: 496
    edited May 2010
    personally with the tourneys on here anyway i am more than happy to sit and play with less than 20bb's

    quite regularly later in the primo ala last week my table were all sitting with 15bb's fairly comfortably
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  • J-HartiganJ-Hartigan Member Posts: 2,756
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: PRIMO 16/05/2010:
    personally with the tourneys on here anyway i am more than happy to sit and play with less than 20bb's quite regularly later in the primo ala last week my table were all sitting with 15bb's fairly comfortably
    Posted by barnsie
    I'm not just talking about pre-flop shoving / re-shoving, barnsie.  It's more about situations like this: flatting a 3x raise OOP with 77 - then check-folding a flop of 10-6-5.


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  • DTWBANDITDTWBANDIT Member Posts: 6,451
    edited May 2010


      Hi James & Lisa gl with the show tonight i will be watching as i have no idea what Risk Aversion is & am keen to learn

     dtw
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  • spornybolspornybol Member Posts: 8,212
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: PRIMO 16/05/2010:
      Hi James & Lisa gl with the show tonight i will be watching as i have no idea what Risk Aversion is & am keen to learn  dtw
    Posted by DTWBANDIT
    w/done 4 yesterday only prob i had wth game was chelsea winnin and then gettin mother inlaw ringing me who is chelsea aswell
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited May 2010
    In Response to PRIMO 16/05/2010:
    1) FOLD EQUITY Does everyone understand what this means?  Do you know how to go from being a 39% underdog to 65% favourite just by pressing the 'All-in' button? 2) RISK AVERSION An important aspect of tournament poker.  But, when you get into that tricky <20bb territory, you have to be prepared to gamble.  So, why are players with shortish stacks still trying to avoid flips and laying down playable hands? 
    Posted by J-Hartigan
    1)  I feel the value of fold equity in a large MTT is significantly less than in smaller field tourneys or cash.  Fold equity rests on the principle that the villain can fold a marginal or decent hand.  When you have to battle through so many players who you don't know and the lack of consistent play with the same people at the same table due to table balancing, you cannot build up a good enough profile of every individual you play against and many times will struggle to know "Can this person fold top pair, middle kicker against my Open Ended Straight Draw if I shove?"

    2)  Looking forward to your discussion on Risk Aversion.  Will post something on it when you get started.

    Have a great show, you guys rock!
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  • PenFifteenPenFifteen Member Posts: 429
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: PRIMO 16/05/2010:
      Hi James & Lisa gl with the show tonight i will be watching as i have no idea what Risk Aversion is & am keen to learn  dtw
    Posted by DTWBANDIT
    Hi James and Sarah

    Risk A Version

    I'll think you;ll find that this is what Microsoft did with Vista - to be corrected by Windows 7

    Can you ask Sarah why she didn't sub in for Jaegerplop on Friday?  Perhaps she just has a life"

    lol

    Pen Fifteen
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  • barnsiebarnsie Member Posts: 496
    edited May 2010
    thats obviously a donk play though isnt it?

    however you have to remember that players who play the regular tourneys on here are quite adept and used to due to the structure playing for long periods with 6-12bb's
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  • darichdarich Member Posts: 969
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: PRIMO 16/05/2010:
    thats obviously a donk play though isnt it? however you have to remember that players who play the regular tourneys on here are quite adept and used to due to the structure playing for long periods with 6-12bb's
    Posted by barnsie
    Have had this argument a few times at the tables, because I agree (and adopt) James's attitude towards the size of a shoving stack. I will sometimes shove with 15bbs and get called by for example A10. I point out that unless you have a large stack, calling off 15bbs with A10 is not an optimal play and the standard retort is that shoving 15bbs with a hand like QJ is a donk play - it isn't...raising 3 bbs to see if you connect with a flop, only to then check fold is far more of a donk play in my opinion. Always put the tough decisions onto your opponents. I would be unable to call a 15 bb shove with AQ or any pocket pair lower than 10s...ie a very very small range. Accepted that there are looser players, but there must be a 95% chance that nobody will call, and even if they do, you can still win the hand at showdown, so to me, it's optimal - just my opinion though
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  • lozgolozgo Member Posts: 1,124
    edited May 2010
    great to hear that you are both well again and ready for some entertaining banter, 
     with no more moaning, one upmanship and screams of twoooo weeeeks!!

    i, also will be watching/listening avidly to the show to learn more.
    good luck with the show.
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  • dylan12dylan12 Member Posts: 2,343
    edited May 2010
    Fold equity - sigh!! I had a situation recently when I was in the BB holding the nuts v a LAG (The nuts was obviously AJ sooooted ;) ) LAG raises 5 times BB from UTG (He has 25BB total and I have 24BB), It doesn't matter what my cards are in the BB - I was shoving because I believe I have enough of a stack to make him fold - No callers before me so I shove and he tanks it and announces " I know you have AA but I'm pot committed" WHAT!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOO!! So he calls with his JJ!! I couldn't believe it - but I guess the key here is that when using this tactic you need to choose yur players well - I honestly thought I had enough fold equity in this situation but I guess I was wrong sigh
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  • DTWBANDITDTWBANDIT Member Posts: 6,451
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: PRIMO 16/05/2010:
    In Response to Re: PRIMO 16/05/2010 : w/done 4 yesterday only prob i had wth game was chelsea winnin and then gettin mother inlaw ringing me who is chelsea aswell
    Posted by spornybol

     cheers m8 i've just qualified for tonites primo via sats for £1-50 also am in £1k velocity via sats for £1-20 so like Chelsea am on for the double haha

     Seriously tho a great nites entertainment for the pricely sum of £2-70 where else would you get that value 

     michael  (dtw)
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  • barnsiebarnsie Member Posts: 496
    edited May 2010
    darich other sites i play in bigger buyin deeper stacked tournies your approach is spot on

    generally speaking it will not work on the tournies here unless all you 55% hold up for a session


    gd lk
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  • spornybolspornybol Member Posts: 8,212
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: PRIMO 16/05/2010:
    In Response to Re: PRIMO 16/05/2010 :  cheers m8 i've just qualified for tonites primo via sats for £1-50 also am in £1k velocity via sats for £1-20 so like Chelsea am on for the double haha  Seriously tho a great nites entertainment for the pricely sum of £2-70 where else would you get that value   michael  (dtw)
    Posted by DTWBANDIT
    wish i could hav done it but had kids all day so missed out 2 nite but will be watchin so gl only got 2 girls myself but look after sis iinlaws 5 if i had hair i would hav pulled it out ?? lol
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  • acebarry10acebarry10 Member Posts: 7,556
    edited May 2010
    Hi Lm and James

    Hope you are both feeling better and good luck for tonight
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  • spornybolspornybol Member Posts: 8,212
    edited May 2010
    have a good show, cough cough, ha ha, splutter splutter and hope u drop ur board agian lisa lol
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  • spornybolspornybol Member Posts: 8,212
    edited May 2010
    4 the new zealand ( aussie) in production, weeee whip ur rear.
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  • shovemonkishovemonki Member Posts: 25
    edited May 2010
    just shove and hope:)
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  • ryan123ryan123 Member Posts: 67
    edited May 2010
    can pleas show this hand thanks 259240018 (20:06 16/05/2010
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  • acebarry10acebarry10 Member Posts: 7,556
    edited May 2010
    Hi again

    Tell that Hartigan, if he does not behave he will be forcibly taken back to a certain hotel ;)
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  • ryan123ryan123 Member Posts: 67
    edited May 2010
    or this 1 lol 259241074 (20:09 16/05/2010
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