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shove or fold?

Eagle26Eagle26 Member Posts: 431
edited May 2010 in The Poker Clinic
hand from last nights primo. 42 people left 40 get paid. im way below the average chipstack and although i play to win at this point with my stack I was just happy to creep into the money and at least get some return on 2 and a half hours play. On this table however there are alot of really short stacks also all tryin to fold there way into the money. im fully aware of lolufolds game and how aggressive he is, he was only guy on table who could knock me out, he had been playin very aggressive, raising nearly every hand stealin the blinds (which is what i would do with his stack on this table at this stage of the tourney) so i pick up AQ raise it up and the only guy i dont want action from re-pops me so what do you do here? do you shove? knowin full well he is probably re-raisin me light as im sure he knows i can really only play back at him with either aa/kk/qq/ak or do you just run off with your tail between your legs let the hand go and fold your way into the money?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
kyle20 Small blind  400.00 400.00 4475.00
Sharksbite Big blind  800.00 1200.00 8160.00
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • Q
     
Eagle26 Raise  3200.00 4400.00 11595.00
lolufold Raise  6550.00 10950.00 22630.75
R__C__S Fold     
kyle20 Fold     
Sharksbite Fold     
Eagle26 ????    
      
      
      
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Comments

  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited May 2010
    Fold, Lol isn't doing this as a bluff imo but you've made your original open way too big. 2k is enough.
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  • Eagle26Eagle26 Member Posts: 431
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: shove or fold?:
    Fold, Lol isn't doing this as a bluff imo but you've made your original open way too big. 2k is enough.
    Posted by beaneh
    yeah your right my open raise is probably too big, suppose my thought process at the time was that i wanted to make the raise big enough so lolufold would fold, get past him i was just happy to take down the blinds or battle with a shortstack. dont you think if i make the raise smaller lolufold would smell weakness and re-raise me anyway? as it happens he did anyway and i was left with this decision! glad you said 'fold'  because thats what i did do, but wasnt convinced it was the correct lay down. i know AQ aint a great hand but i was just convinced he was re-raisin me with air knowin full well i would need a massive hand to play back at him.
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited May 2010
    id be pretty happy stacking off if you opened alot smaller at this stage in a tournament hardly anyone is going to flat call they will just shove or fold so it makes your steals alot cheaper opening to say 2.5x

    as it is lolufold doesnt expect you to fold at all which means you should
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: shove or fold?:
    In Response to Re: shove or fold? : yeah your right my open raise is probably too big, suppose my thought process at the time was that i wanted to make the raise big enough so lolufold would fold, get past him i was just happy to take down the blinds or battle with a shortstack. dont you think if i make the raise smaller lolufold would smell weakness and re-raise me anyway? as it happens he did anyway and i was left with this decision! glad you said 'fold'  because thats what i did do, but wasnt convinced it was the correct lay down. i know AQ aint a great hand but i was just convinced he was re-raisin me with air knowin full well i would need a massive hand to play back at him.
    Posted by Eagle26
    not if everytime you open you open smaller to that size. he's still got to find a hand to reshove over you....
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  • HAL_9000HAL_9000 Member Posts: 216
    edited May 2010
    I think you shove there. From what you say LOL has been doing his usual thing in which case at which point do you make your stand.
    By the sounds of it and if your really honest with your self you have just been outplayed on the bubble by thinking of getting in the money.

    How about this.. if you do go in lighter say 2400 and he MR you. would you then push or fold?

    Get it into the Club and they will run it through to see if you made correct fold but for me by the sounds of the table then I shove as your on a table of shorts and getting further behind the average stack if everyones folding. so you got to push on.

    So Where did you finish?

    Keep Smiling
    HAL_9000


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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: shove or fold?:
    I think you shove there. From what you say LOL has been doing his usual thing in which case at which point do you make your stand. By the sounds of it and if your really honest with your self you have just been outplayed on the bubble by thinking of getting in the money. How about this.. if you do go in lighter say 2400 and he MR you. would you then push or fold? Get it into the Club and they will run it through to see if you made correct fold but for me by the sounds of the table then I shove as your on a table of shorts and getting further behind the average stack if everyones folding. so you got to push on. So Where did you finish? Keep Smiling HAL_9000
    Posted by HAL_9000

    lol only has 22k and he is putting 7k in, he is not folding and most likely not bluffing so it's best to fold pre.

    Raising less saves you money when you have to fold etc etc
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  • Eagle26Eagle26 Member Posts: 431
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: shove or fold?:
    I think you shove there. From what you say LOL has been doing his usual thing in which case at which point do you make your stand. By the sounds of it and if your really honest with your self you have just been outplayed on the bubble by thinking of getting in the money. How about this.. if you do go in lighter say 2400 and he MR you. would you then push or fold? Get it into the Club and they will run it through to see if you made correct fold but for me by the sounds of the table then I shove as your on a table of shorts and getting further behind the average stack if everyones folding. so you got to push on. So Where did you finish? Keep Smiling HAL_9000
    Posted by HAL_9000
    yeah i think there is a high possibilty i was just outplayed. and this was in my mind at the time, which as a result i was highly tempted to shove. however i made the decision to pretty much give up any hope of winnin the tourney and just made sure i made the cash (this is something i dont normally do, but my stack was low i was way behind the average stack and i wanted at least some return on my investment) i finished 29th i think. kinda disapointin considerin the start i had (i was in top 5 for a long while) but a few blind steals goin wrong and a race lost against gliterbabe where i had ak he had 10's left me with really no other choice but to just try and creep into the money! thanks for the reply anyway mate
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  • HAL_9000HAL_9000 Member Posts: 216
    edited May 2010
    If you contact Sky or PM rich and James one of them will review the hand on Sky and give you some more advice which if its from James will be shove in the 1st place LOL

    Keep Smiling
    HAL_9000
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  • BelovedLtdBelovedLtd Member Posts: 188
    edited May 2010
    If you want to really go for the win then playing it like this then shoving to his raise is the most profitable play.

    But if you wanted to play it safe then you should just shove pre, if he folds a weaker hand then you've picked up the blinds, if he calls you with worse then he's made a mistake (whatever the result, that's a good result) - and if he has a stronger hand than AQs then you're just unlucky.

    If you could contemplate folding this hand pre then you might as well just sit out.
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