why be abusive? OMAHA

BURNShurtz

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
finnigen02	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£3.67
BURNShurtz	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£12.46
	Your hole cards	8 J 9 6
muppet58	Call		£0.20	£0.50	£9.60
XXX	Call		£0.20	£0.70	£19.11
kaiosh	Fold
finnigen02	Raise		£0.30	£1.00	£3.37
BURNShurtz	Call		£0.20	£1.20	£12.26
muppet58	Call		£0.20	£1.40	£9.40
XXX	Call		£0.20	£1.60	£18.91
Flop
		7 2 4
finnigen02	Check
BURNShurtz	Check
muppet58	Check
XXX	Check
Turn
		10
finnigen02	Check
BURNShurtz	Bet		£1.60	£3.20	£10.66
muppet58	Call		£1.60	£4.80	£7.80
XXX	Raise		£8.00	£12.80	£10.91
finnigen02	Fold
BURNShurtz	All-in		£10.66	£23.46	£0.00
muppet58	Fold
XXX	Call		£4.26	£27.72	£6.65
BURNShurtz	Show	8 J 9 6
XXX	Show	10 Q 5 10
River
		5
BURNShurtz	Win	Straight to the 8	£26.34		£26.34

i played this hand earlier ond got some abuse from the losing player after it finished so i thought id put it on here to see what you experts out there think. i dont hold a great hand pre flop but its not the worst hand you can have in omaha, bets standard preflop and all check flop. turn card gives me 16 outs for a str and 5 for a bad flush. i raise 1 call then guy on button reraise pot. in my mind he has 2 pair or set maybe better flush draw, i push all my stack in 1 folds button calls. i hit 1 of my str cards for the win and he shows his set. his first reaction was awfull call however i didnt call i pushed over the top then idiot player then the  old **** **** **** **** ****
was i just really bad and lucky or did i have enough outs to push and play?? any str i made would be the nuts and i would have won with the flush to but not the nuts. your thoughts please

YOUNG_GUN

move to poker clinic and someone will answer this

not experianced enough to give correct answer here but people always bad mouth when they lose

i sometimes will but mainly to put people of there game

spornybol

i must admit i`m abusive if i lose, BUT only at myself and under my breathe just so my kids can`t hear me swear,it`s happened a lot the last two days where i`ve gone all in ahead but the lucky fffs (lol) have hit on river but that`s poker and what comes around goes around so i would not be abusive to the other person because i might meet them again and do to them what they done to me, so i respect them and say gg so next time they`ll respect me back. i can`t say anything about omaha don`t like it.

TommyD

Firstly, a plus 1 for Young Gun to move this to the Clinic.

Secondly, please could you edit your post to remove the villain's name.  I think it's against house rules to post the names in the HH without permission, especially given the afters you have detailed here, it's certainly bad etiquette to post them.  I'm not having a pop, just giving you the heads up.

Moving on to the hand:

1)  To analyse the hand, I will take your starting hand over the villain's starting hand every day of the week and twice on Sunday's.  In PLO while your's is not premium, it's very good to see a cheap flop and can connect in several different ways (we're looking for big nut straight draws/made nut straights on the flop using the suits as back up draws rather than going to war with a flush draw alone).

Preflop and flop = standard  (I might be tempted to have a pop on the flop, but I'm a bit of a lag.  It's a broken rainbow board and I'm interested to see if the min-raiser has aces/kings)

The turn is of course the money card.  It's not a really great card for you, but it's a good one.  You are now drawing to the nuts with Js, Jc, all three 9s, all three 8s, all three 6s, 5c, 5s & 5d.  That's 14 nut out's (the other two you have counted would give a bigger flush to someone on the draw where and the 8h would of course give you the nut straight flush).  You also have the back up of the heart draw if your read is that it's good.  Do I want to see a river with this hand?  For sure.  Am I going to war with one card to come?  Meh.  With three oppo's still in I would probably exercise a little pot control and not lead here.  It's not the worst idea in the world but if the action goes as it has, it puts you in a tricky little spot.

2)  The question of who raised and who called.  This is a massive grey area and I feel you are slightly misusing "I'm the one who went all in."  His pot bet effectively is an all in, as it's PLO he of course couldn't raise any more but with the little he was behind in relation to your total stack he effectively has.  I feel this phrase and line of thinking is more akin to NL than PL.  You have 'effectively' called an all in here.  Have you called thin?  It's quite tight on first viewing but I do think your 'effective call' is on the thin side but not horrendously so (I try not to reach the pot odds calculator on my first post, it helps me put my mind in the place of the player).  14 nut outs (I am only counting these without any history of the villain, he could easily have Ah Kh Td Tc etc) makes you about a 29/30% shot.  I'm not in love with the move but if you think a flush is good as well then it is a call.  If not, then it's a fold.

3)  As regards to the afters, it's been a very very very long time since I've complained about someone making a bad call.  I think I did this once, maybe.  Either way it was before SkyPoker started by a good number of years.  There is no excuse in my mind to complain about a bad call.  The complaint in itself is illogical.  A lot of people seem to think you make money at poker by playing great cards.  I would put the suggestion forward that the money you make by doing your best Ivey/Hellmuth/Reese/Ungar/Dwan impression pales in comparison to the money you make from other people's mistakes.  That's how I play cards.  I want thin calls and by definition a thin call sometimes comes in.  More so in PLO and if a player cannot handle them then I know plenty of Bridge clubs they can join.

In conclusion, you're the one paying your money to play and if you want to use your money to make that call, that's totally fine with me.  No one should be bad mouthing other people's play, period.  Whether it's calling on the turn with a gutshot that makes it or by opening with 100xBB with Aces preflop, if you pay your money you can do whatever you like.

BURNShurtz

In Response to Re: why be abusive? OMAHA:

Firstly, a plus 1 for Young Gun to move this to the Clinic. Secondly, please could you edit your post to remove the villain's name.  I think it's against house rules to post the names in the HH without permission, especially given the afters you have detailed here, it's certainly bad etiquette to post them.  I'm not having a pop, just giving you the heads up. Moving on to the hand: 1)  To analyse the hand, I will take your starting hand over the villain's starting hand every day of the week and twice on Sunday's.  In PLO while your's is not premium, it's very good to see a cheap flop and can connect in several different ways (we're looking for big nut straight draws/made nut straights on the flop using the suits as back up draws rather than going to war with a flush draw alone). Preflop and flop = standard  (I might be tempted to have a pop on the flop, but I'm a bit of a lag.  It's a broken rainbow board and I'm interested to see if the min-raiser has aces/kings) The turn is of course the money card.  It's not a really great card for you, but it's a good one.  You are now drawing to the nuts with Js, Jc, all three 9s, all three 8s, all three 6s, 5c, 5s & 5d.  That's 14 nut out's (the other two you have counted would give a bigger flush to someone on the draw where and the 8h would of course give you the nut straight flush).  You also have the back up of the heart draw if  your read is that it's good.  Do I want to see a river with this hand?  For sure.  Am I going to war with one card to come?  Meh.  With three oppo's still in I would probably exercise a little pot control and not lead here.  It's not the worst idea in the world but if the action goes as it has, it puts you in a tricky little spot. 2)  The question of who raised and who called.  This is a massive grey area and I feel you are slightly misusing "I'm the one who went all in."  His pot bet effectively is an all in, as it's PLO he of course couldn't raise any more but with the little he was behind in relation to your total stack he effectively has.  I feel this phrase and line of thinking is more akin to NL than PL.  You have 'effectively' called an all in here.  Have you called thin?  It's quite tight on first viewing but I do think your 'effective call' is on the thin side but not horrendously so (I try not to reach the pot odds calculator on my first post, it helps me put my mind in the place of the player).  14 nut outs (I am only counting these without any history of the villain, he could easily have Ah Kh Td Tc etc) makes you about a 29/30% shot.  I'm not in love with the move but if you think a flush is good as well then it is a call.  If not, then it's a fold. 3)  As regards to the afters, it's been a very very very long time since I've complained about someone making a bad call.  I think I did this once, maybe.  Either way it was before SkyPoker started by a good number of years.  There is no excuse in my mind to complain about a bad call.  The complaint in itself is illogical.  A lot of people seem to think you make money at poker by playing great cards.  I would put the suggestion forward that the money you make by doing your best Ivey/Hellmuth/Reese/Ungar/Dwan impression pales in comparison to the money you make from other people's mistakes.  That's how I play cards.  I want thin calls and by definition a thin call sometimes comes in.  More so in PLO and if a player cannot handle them then I know plenty of Bridge clubs they can join. In conclusion, you're the one paying your money to play and if you want to use your money to make that call, that's totally fine with me.   No one should be bad mouthing other people's play, period .  Whether it's calling on the turn with a gutshot that makes it or by opening with 100xBB with Aces preflop, if you pay your money you can do whatever you like.
Posted by TommyD

thanks for the post, the player in question was unlucky but i dont think i made the worst decision in the poker world. ive seen alot of players do similar with K and Q  high flush draws agaist players with sets and made strs and when they hit they think its fine but if they get outdrawn by a hand they write abuse. the reason i used 16 as my str outs was becoz thats how many in my head before i seen my opponents cards.