3 aces facing river shove - Call/Fold?

DOHHHHHHH

The guy unfortunately is forum banned, but in the chatbox he said he wouldnt mind me posting his name.

Loose, agg player, makes alot of moves, but is this EVER  a bluff????

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Ozzie08	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£42.54
corbett04	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£28.35
	Your hole cards	A 10
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		£1.20	£1.65	£64.57
WHOAMI196	Call		£1.20	£2.85	£27.42
Ozzie08	Fold
corbett04	Fold
Flop
		A J 7
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		£2.00	£4.85	£62.57
WHOAMI196	Call		£2.00	£6.85	£25.42
Turn
		Q
DOHHHHHHH	Check
WHOAMI196	Check
River
		A
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		£4.00	£10.85	£58.57
WHOAMI196	All-in		£25.42	£36.27	£0.00

DeucesLive

wow... tough spot. You have to ask yourself what he's calling you with there... if he's aggro, he's way more likely to reraise with Q's or J's preflop. 7's? possible, I guess, though I'd expect a raise on the flop.

For me, if he's a good player, he's picking up on your check on the turn. He looked at that as weakness and when you bet on the river, he reshoves thinking you haven't got a hand and tried to pick it off. Realistically, the only hands beating you are K10, QQ, JJ, 77, A7/AJ/AQ/AK. Of those I'm only putting him on K10, 77 or one of the A combinations. If it's 77, he's done an amazing job of keeping it quiet, if it's K10 then it's been pretty loosely played in my opinion. Any of the aces are a reasonable possibility, but you're unlucky if he has the only remaining ace in the deck coupled with another of the board cards, there's a heap of raggy aces he could make the same move with.

I'd be calling that, and I think based on the hand, I'm expecting KJ or QJ- I think he turned 2 pair and checked, thinking he's ahead (he would have been) and then had the intention to raise it up heavily on the river, hoping you'd bet out again. A scared him a bit.

Like I said, tough decision... but based on your stack sizes, I'd have to go with it- sometimes he may have the nuts, but I don't think he always will. It all depends on just how good your read on him is- if he's as aggressive as you say he is, he won't mind betting out heavily on a hand that isn't unbeatable.

DeuceAK_47

Cant see this ever being a bluff, a raise on the river is always the nuts generally and especially as its an overbet.

CLIOKID

In Response to Re: Call/Fold?:

Cant see this ever being a bluff, a raise on the river is always the nuts generally and especially as its an overbet.
Posted by DeuceAK-47

Would be a crazy turn check with any two pair or set combo though.

Very awkward spot.

DeuceAK_47

In Response to Re: Call/Fold?:

In Response to Re: Call/Fold? : Would be a crazy turn check with any two pair or set combo though. Very awkward spot.
Posted by CLIOKID

Very true but i cant think of one hand that i would of played the way the villian has, can you?

Dudeskin8

I'd call, but it would probably be the wrong move.

theneons

i would have put him on AJ and folded for sure.

CLIOKID

In Response to Re: Call/Fold?:

In Response to Re: Call/Fold? : Very true but i cant think of one hand that i would of played the way the villian has, can you?
Posted by DeuceAK-47

A spazzy bluff?

TommyD

That is flopping crazy!

The Villain's hand is completely polarized, it's a boat or a bluff.  He's either shut down and lost his equity on the flop and turn with a set or AJ with the intention to over bet the river knowing how you play and that it's unlikely that you would be checking twice on the trot (the Isuldar1 method, and I know people have a go at me for saying that people playing at these levels wouldn't be copying the crazy enigma, I still think there's a drip down effect and this latest fad started with him), or it's a complete bluff putting you on a marginal to air.  He may also be taking advantage of the fact you have publicly requested a few very big folds to be shown on TV in the last few weeks, meaning he is thinking you are looking to fold more lately and thus increasing the range you would fold to a big bluff.

First time out against an oppo, I call.  Just so I can sleep at night.  Afterwards depending on the result I will change the line I am taking with him.

zing

So you're giving a 30nl semi-reg credit to turn showdown value into a bluff when they love to press the call button with hands like KQ QJ KJ etc

And you're also giving him credit to float the flop w/ ATC then check the turn when he should be betting his float but to then shove over you on the river on this board texture. (his only air that makes small sense is 109/98)

At best you chop with other small aces but more likely it's A7/77 maybe KT.

If you wanna try and hero call be my guest.

TommyD

In Response to Re: 3 aces facing river shove - Call/Fold?:

So you're giving a 30nl semi-reg credit to turn showdown value into a bluff when they love to press the call button with hands like KQ QJ KJ etc And you're also giving him credit to float the flop w/ ATC then check the turn when he should be betting his float but to then shove over you on the river on this board texture. (his only air that makes small sense is 109/98) At best you chop with other small aces but more likely it's A7/77 maybe KT. If you wanna try and hero call be my guest.
Posted by zing

Zing

I don't know the guy offhand.  I have no information on him.  I made it clear in my post that I thought it was a boat or bluff.  It's quite plausible that some players may flat an aggressive player such as Dohhhhhh with 2nd Pair (KQ, QT etc) and it's equally plausible that some players, upon seeing the top card pair start thinking 'well if there's two out there it's more unlikely he has one, also why would be check his ace on the turn?'  I made it clear I would call 'the first time' and then adjust my line according to the result.  If this hand is taken in a vacuum then I fold.

scotty77

 Bet turn

As played fold river.  You are essentially calling to chop.  Depening on the player tho he may be doing this with A4 etc not realising what a bad play it is.

Eagle26

this might surprise ya JJ but even I would fold this 1 lol ... like what has already been said at best i think your callin to chop. my guess would be he is holdin AJ/A7 maybe K10/77

zing

I was just mumbling thoughts Tommy, wasn't really questioning your thought process directly.

spornybol

i had the same earlier today in £2.30 bounty were he went all in and i called, turns out he had strate and i was out so he could have 10/k, if i was in same spot again i would still call

beaneh

Bet turn ftw most likely fold this river without reads on him.