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****** NOW RESOLVED, DETAILS IN FIRST POST ***** Double Your Money - blatent collusion/chip dumping
GaryQQQ
Member Posts: 6,804
Update;
After an investigation by Sky my suspicions have now been confirmed. Action has been now taken against the two players who are the subject of this thread, it ensures that they will no longer be able to cheat at the tables. Collusion is very rare, but if you ever do spot suspicious patterns of play please do the same thing as me; alert customer care.
In an earlier thread I said I didn't think players would stoop so low as to collude in low buy-in DYMs. However, yesterday I saw such a blatent case that I'm sad to report that I have completely changed my mind. I know the forum isn't a place to make accusations, so I reported this matter to customer care immediately, they are investigating and I won't be naming anybody here. But I can assure you that I wouldn't have created this thread unless I was 100% sure I'm right.
The two players involved have sat in a series of low buy-in (£1 to £5) DYMs together, they have played apart in the past, but they only play DYMs together at the moment. Their technique is to wait until the bubble, then repeatedly raise and re-raise against each other, forcing everybody else out of the pot, but they never actually get as far as showdown, they take it in turns to win the pot (including any chips put in by their 2 remaining opponents) by folding to each other. Sometimes (as in the hand below) once everybody else is forced out of the pot one of them will just fold, even when it's free to check. The two players involved are from seperate towns, but they are just a few miles apart. Once an opponent gets so short stacked that he/she is forced to go all-in both of the colluders call, even with junk, at that moment their re-raising suddenly stops and they check all streets to the showdown to make sure its 2 vs 1.
Before the victim in this game was eliminated I asked these two in the chatbox if they were chip-dumping, they denied it initially, but once the bubble had burst (just the 3 of us remaining at the table) player1 gave me a one word answer; 'yes'.
Here is a typical hand where player 1 blatently dumps 1100 chips to player 2, nicely evening up their stack sizes. There were many hands like this in succession. When this hand was dealt their victim only had 850 chips, therefore he/she could only call the bet if prepared to go all-in against 2 big stacks (3 stacks if I called too);
After an investigation by Sky my suspicions have now been confirmed. Action has been now taken against the two players who are the subject of this thread, it ensures that they will no longer be able to cheat at the tables. Collusion is very rare, but if you ever do spot suspicious patterns of play please do the same thing as me; alert customer care.
In an earlier thread I said I didn't think players would stoop so low as to collude in low buy-in DYMs. However, yesterday I saw such a blatent case that I'm sad to report that I have completely changed my mind. I know the forum isn't a place to make accusations, so I reported this matter to customer care immediately, they are investigating and I won't be naming anybody here. But I can assure you that I wouldn't have created this thread unless I was 100% sure I'm right.
The two players involved have sat in a series of low buy-in (£1 to £5) DYMs together, they have played apart in the past, but they only play DYMs together at the moment. Their technique is to wait until the bubble, then repeatedly raise and re-raise against each other, forcing everybody else out of the pot, but they never actually get as far as showdown, they take it in turns to win the pot (including any chips put in by their 2 remaining opponents) by folding to each other. Sometimes (as in the hand below) once everybody else is forced out of the pot one of them will just fold, even when it's free to check. The two players involved are from seperate towns, but they are just a few miles apart. Once an opponent gets so short stacked that he/she is forced to go all-in both of the colluders call, even with junk, at that moment their re-raising suddenly stops and they check all streets to the showdown to make sure its 2 vs 1.
Before the victim in this game was eliminated I asked these two in the chatbox if they were chip-dumping, they denied it initially, but once the bubble had burst (just the 3 of us remaining at the table) player1 gave me a one word answer; 'yes'.
Here is a typical hand where player 1 blatently dumps 1100 chips to player 2, nicely evening up their stack sizes. There were many hands like this in succession. When this hand was dealt their victim only had 850 chips, therefore he/she could only call the bet if prepared to go all-in against 2 big stacks (3 stacks if I called too);
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| GaryQQQ | Small blind | 100.00 | 100.00 | 1925.00 | |
| player1 | Big blind | 200.00 | 300.00 | 5270.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| player2 | Raise | 1000.00 | 1300.00 | 2655.00 | |
| victim | Fold | ||||
| GaryQQQ | Fold | ||||
| player1 | Call | 800.00 | 2100.00 | 4470.00 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| player1 | Fold | ||||
| player2 | Muck | ||||
| player2 | Win | 2100.00 | 4755.00 | ||
Comments
You have reported it to customer care now, so let them investigate and sort it out. This sort of thing will happen occasionally, unfortunately, but unless anyone reports allegations through the proper channels, as you have done, then nothing will be done.
You have done the right thing by a) contacting customer care, and b) not naming those concerned, now all you should do is leave it to sky customer care to investigate and sort it out.
i don't see the benefit of posting this thread tbh, but i do understand your annoyance at this situation as you and many others may have been penalised by these 2 players' actions, and that is not on, regardless of what level of buy in.
good luck, hope it gets put right soon
hoggers
Reported to Sky, and while they said the play was extremely "Odd", there was no history between the 2 players so nothing could be done.
I now avoid this player like the plague.
Sky will also have their own monitoring procedures and software to track any unusual patterns and detect fraud, so i dont think we need to worry too much about this.
well done for spotting the above situation and for dealing with it the right way
gary im sorry i was dumping chips mate but you did not need to report me
i was just trying to help orford out ( he needs it ) lol
all joking aside i see this a fair bit as i play alot of dym best thing to do if you get it is ..... ill pm you later as dont want to give away secrets but it does work against these sort
should I have reported it?
As to being called a "grass", well thats primary school playground stuff, but doing the right thing - reporting suspected collusion - is absolutely, 100% the right thing to do. If brain-deads then want to be daft & make puerile comments, ("grass") so be it.
It must be said that collusion is VERY hard (almost impossible, in fact) to "prove beyond reasonable doubt" from a single instance, so multiple examples are needed to ensure it is indeed happening.
We must also be very careful never to pre-judge these matters, as many did a week or so ago on this Forum, when so many players got so ahead of themselves on the "Multi-Accounting" Thread, only to eventually realise that nothing whatsoever was amiss. The finger was pointed, the accusations flew, it was disproven, but not one person apologised for presuming guilt.
Do as thy will be done.
im sick of such mindless posts actually, they are posted to get a reaction
oo look, another bandwagon to jump on
seen another episode where someone hit trips and another person hit a a straight and no one betted !!!