Question for you all

bornablade

Hi
  Just wanted some opinions on this hand please.
The hand was in a ds tourny I have about 4.1k as does bb, sb has around 5.5k

I get dealt 8 10 dia on the button +1. I'm a big fan of suited connectors and semi connectors so I call,
 rest is explained below, (thanks Mohican).
I know I am behind but I think I have 12 outs (9 dia and 4 Q's (inc Q dia))

my question to you all is what to do?

bornablade

I'll let this run for a while if I can and post my decision tomorrow.
If I missed any info you need that would help make the decision  just post ur question and I'll try and answer it

Mohican

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
playa	Small blind		30.00	30.00	5845.00
playa2	Big blind		60.00	90.00	3810.00
	Your hole cards	3 Q
player	Fold
player	Fold
bornablade	Call		60.00	150.00	4235.00
Mohican	Fold
playa	Call		30.00	180.00	5815.00
playa2	Raise		180.00	360.00	3630.00
bornablade	Call		180.00	540.00	4055.00
playa	Raise		360.00	900.00	5455.00
playa2	Call		180.00	1080.00	3450.00
bornablade	Call		180.00	1260.00	3875.00
Flop
		K J A
playa	All-in		5455.00	6715.00	0.00
playa2	All-in		3450.00	10165.00	0.00
bornablade	????????

Mohican

that what he's on about.
Was on the table.

teachai

you only have 12 outs. you are counting Qd twice.
But there is a huge amount in the pot. Call and win and u have trebled up. If it was fast structure its an easy call.
Even deep stacked, I think you should make the call here. 
what u should do is put the hand into pokerstove and see what it says.

i've done it for you, putting you up against 2 random hands and two strong hands both of which contain one of your outs.   I cxhange my mind and its now an easy fold

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

 903  games     0.005 secs   180,600  games/sec

Board: Kc Ad Jd
Dead: 

    equity     win     tie           pots won     pots tied   
Hand 0:     24.474%      20.27%     04.21%                183            38.00   { Td8d }
Hand 1:     38.095%      37.87%     00.22%                342             2.00   { KdKh }
Hand 2:     37.431%      33.22%     04.21%                300            38.00   { QdTh }


---

 966,381,570  games    29.129 secs    33,175,926  games/sec

Board: Ad Kc Jd
Dead: 

    equity     win     tie           pots won     pots tied   
Hand 0:     50.208%      47.34%     02.86%          457517290      27679635.00   { Td8d }
Hand 1:     24.896%      22.34%     02.55%          215909394      24682928.50   { random }
Hand 2:     24.896%      22.34%     02.55%          215909394      24682928.50   { random }


---

bornablade

In Response to Re: Question for you all:

you only have 12 outs. you are counting Qd twice. But there is a huge amount in the pot. Call and win and u have trebled up. If it was fast structure its an easy call. Even deep stacked, I think you should make the call here.  what u should do is put the hand into pokerstove and see what it says.
Posted by teachai

I'll have a look

teachai

In Response to Re: Question for you all:

In Response to Re: Question for you all : I'll have a look
Posted by lbornablade

Look above

bornablade

In Response to Re: Question for you all:

In Response to Re: Question for you all : Look above
Posted by teachai

Cheers Tea I have run it myself with the cards I remember them having and if I'm right I win 40% of the time against 10 and 26 for the other two

I will post their hands when post has run for a day

teachai

dont forget, you don't know what they have when you make the decision.  The fact that there is an all-in and a call in front of you means that they should both have decent holdings.  
 I'll look back with interest to see any more discussion.

bornablade

In Response to Re: Question for you all:

dont forget, you don't know what they have when you make the decision.  The fact that there is an all-in and a call in front of you means that they should both have decent holdings.    I'll look back with interest to see any more discussion.
Posted by teachai

I agree but I didn't think either would be shoving all in with K or J paired   thought we were at least looking at paired A's

I have there proper hands now so will stove it

bornablade

In Response to Re: Question for you all:

dont forget, you don't know what they have when you make the decision.  The fact that there is an all-in and a call in front of you means that they should both have decent holdings.    I'll look back with interest to see any more discussion.
Posted by teachai

Sorry tea,
 I had them both on A preflop as one called and other raised then 1st one reraised and other called so was only thinking they had A rag  maybe up to A9, A10. This was why I called 2nd raise knowing if flop is right for me I could win a big pot. the fact that the 1st raise was only 2bb and the 2nd raise was a min raise definitely gave me the impression that I wasn't up against AK or AQ. Neither did I have them down as the kind of plyrs who would be raising with K or Q high preflop.

goodylad21

Find a better spot. Easy fold, you could be crushed !

bornablade

votes were 3 calls 3 folds

I pokerstoved it with the hands and I win 40% the time. I did call
hit the str8 an trebled up

Dudeskin8

Easy fold, your flush draw could and probably is dead, and then there's the straight but that's only 4 outs. I definitely fold in this spot. You hav 4.2k with 30/60 blinds plenty of time mate, unless you feel lucky in which case call and still lose.

bornablade

In Response to Re: Question for you all:

Easy fold, your flush draw could and probably is dead, and then there's the straight but that's only 4 outs. I definitely fold in this spot. You hav 4.2k with 30/60 blinds plenty of time mate, unless you feel lucky in which case call and still lose.
Posted by Dudeskin8

Or as in this case call and win!
Didn't put either of them on flush draws and as I explained earlier had them both on raggedy A's due to the weak raise, call, reraise call action preflop.
you know me mate. While some would fold in this spot I ain't putting it down when I can treble up and think I'm good with 12 outs.

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: Question for you all:

In Response to Re: Question for you all : Or as in this case call and win! Didn't put either of them on flush draws and as I explained earlier had them both on raggedy A's due to the weak raise, call, reraise call action preflop. you know me mate. While some would fold in this spot I ain't putting it down when I can treble up and think I'm good with 12 outs.
Posted by bornablade

Well done on treble up, but most the time your going out here, but your game your decision.

YOUNG_GUN

personally feel have overplayed your hand here which has got you in trouble, dont mind call & then call to raise of 180 but when re-raised to 360 would have got out of the way. i always find a deepstack isnt about trying to knock people out as there is plenty of play left so would wait for a better spot here.

personally would fold flop aswell as you are facing two all ins, so at least one must have a made hand? other one could have hand + draw eg kq which would be nut flush if it hit. one could have hit a straight and other one hit set but still you at best are drawing on 12 outs, but there is alot of play left so i wouldn't risk my hole stack in order to be in prime position, you are getting the odds to hit but staking your tounament on a draw when you dont need to not for me

FlashFlush

I fold... Your str8 and flush draws can both be crushed. Especially as its a deepstack, there are better spots.

bornablade

Cheers for all your input guys