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My own fault?

CLIOKIDCLIOKID Member Posts: 783
edited June 2010 in The Poker Clinic
Button with KK.

Standard raise.

SB calls.

Safe flop SB checks and i put in a bet that looked like a standard C-bet 3/4 pot. I tried to make my bet look weak as previously I'd shown down a hand by betting exact amounts earlier in the orbit whilst very strong, therefore took the 3/4 pot button as a level to some extent.

As I hoped I induced a C/R from the villain.

At this point I did not think he was very strong so decided to flat it as I was pretty sure a raise would see my oppo fold and I was wanting to extract a bit more value out of it.

My turn bet was too big I think though and is probably the biggest mistake I made in the hand.

Villain knows I'm capable of barreling air and has made moves on me in the past.

Was I unlucky here or did I try to play it too fancily?

Thoughts?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
xx Small blind   £0.25 £0.25 £49.25
taft11 Big blind   £0.50 £0.75 £25.28
churriflus Big blind   £0.50 £1.25 £9.16
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • K
     
5toneFace Fold        
shano1 Fold        
churriflus Check        
CLIOKID Raise   £2.00 £3.25 £63.85
x Call   £1.75 £5.00 £47.50
taft11 Fold        
churriflus Fold        
Flop
   
  • 3
  • 9
  • 6
     
x Check        
CLIOKID Bet   £3.94 £8.94 £59.91
x
 Raise   £9.00 £17.94 £38.50
CLIOKID Call   £5.06 £23.00 £54.85
Turn
   
  • 2
     
x Check        
CLIOKID Bet   £17.44 £40.44 £37.41
x All-in   £38.50 £78.94 £0.00
CLIOKID Call   £21.06 £100.00 £16.35
x Show
  • 2
  • 2
     
CLIOKID Show
  • K
  • K
     
River
   
  • Q
     
x Win Three 2s £98.45   £98.45
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Comments

  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    In Response to My own fault?:
    Button with KK. Standard raise. SB calls. Safe flop SB checks and i put in a bet that looked like a standard C-bet 3/4 pot. I tried to make my bet look weak as previously I'd shown down a hand by betting exact amounts earlier in the orbit whilst very strong, therefore took the 3/4 pot button as a level to some extent. As I hoped I induced a C/R from the villain. At this point I did not think he was very strong so decided to flat it as I was pretty sure a raise would see my oppo fold and I was wanting to extract a bit more value out of it. My turn bet was too big I think though and is probably the biggest mistake I made in the hand. Villain knows I'm capable of barreling air and has made moves on me in the past. Was I unlucky here or did I try to play it too fancily? Thoughts? Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance xx Small blind   £0.25 £0.25 £49.25 taft11 Big blind   £0.50 £0.75 £25.28 churriflus Big blind   £0.50 £1.25 £9.16   Your hole cards K K       5toneFace Fold         shano1 Fold         churriflus Check         CLIOKID Raise   £2.00 £3.25 £63.85 x Call   £1.75 £5.00 £47.50 taft11 Fold         churriflus Fold         Flop     3 9 6       x Check         CLIOKID Bet   £3.94 £8.94 £59.91 sam1986 Raise   £9.00 £17.94 £38.50 CLIOKID Call   £5.06 £23.00 £54.85 Turn     2       x Check         CLIOKID Bet   £17.44 £40.44 £37.41 x All-in   £38.50 £78.94 £0.00 CLIOKID Call   £21.06 £100.00 £16.35 x Show 2 2       CLIOKID Show K K       River     Q       x Win Three 2s £98.45   £98.45
    Posted by CLIOKID

    you played this fine bet calling the flop is perfect, you just got super unlucky that he's a luckbox.

    edit an argument could be made for checking back the turn but I don't think it matters too much
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  • YoungUnYoungUn Member Posts: 422
    edited June 2010
    You've left villains name in on flop action.

    You say you didn't think he was strong, well what are you putting him on? It's not really enough to think that he's weak, because weak could mean Q3 and he could bink a Q on the turn but still think you're good. Unless you can pin him on a range it's no use flatting the flop, just get the money in and hope he thinks you're going crazy.

    Also, you say he's made moves on you before, how has he reacted when he's check-raised you OOP and you called? Did he bet into you or does he always check?

    Idk, usually in you're spot I just get it in, but when I have a lot of experience vs villain I try to over-complicate things thinking that I have good read on them. I think you've got what you wanted, a check-raise (and more money) from the worse hand, just close the hand out without getting too greedy.
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  • CLIOKIDCLIOKID Member Posts: 783
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: My own fault?:
    You've left villains name in on flop action. You say you didn't think he was strong, well what are you putting him on? It's not really enough to think that he's weak, because weak could mean Q3 and he could bink a Q on the turn but still think you're good. Unless you can pin him on a range it's no use flatting the flop, just get the money in and hope he thinks you're going crazy. Also, you say he's made moves on you before, how has he reacted when he's check-raised you OOP and you called? Did he bet into you or does he always check? Idk, usually in you're spot I just get it in, but when I have a lot of experience vs villain I try to over-complicate things thinking that I have good read on them. I think you've got what you wanted, a check-raise (and more money) from the worse hand, just close the hand out without getting too greedy.
    Posted by YoungUn
    Have edited it now.

    I'm nigh on certain I'm winning the hand and I'm also certain if I 3bet it he'll be folding.

    I'm puting him on a middle-ish pp TBH.
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  • YoungUnYoungUn Member Posts: 422
    edited June 2010
    Then yeah, you just got ul. As long as you're ready to slow down on a 4 or 5 turn it's wp.
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3 Member Posts: 2,418
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: My own fault?:
    In Response to Re: My own fault? : Have edited it now. I'm nigh on certain I'm winning the hand and I'm also certain if I 3bet it he'll be folding. I'm puting him on a middle-ish pp TBH.
    Posted by CLIOKID
    Well he wont if he flopped a set...
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  • CLIOKIDCLIOKID Member Posts: 783
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: My own fault?:
    In Response to Re: My own fault? : Well he wont if he flopped a set...
    Posted by BlackFish3
    But I'm 99% sure he doesn't have a set.

    I feel he is making a move on me and I want him to continue to make the move, which he ain't going to do if I 3bet.
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: My own fault?:
    In Response to Re: My own fault? : But I'm 99% sure he doesn't have a set. I feel he is making a move on me and I want him to continue to make the move, which he ain't going to do if I 3bet.
    Posted by CLIOKID

    which is why bet calling a rainbow board is probably best with an overpair here. more draw heavy boards and you can 3 bet but his c/r should/would be different.
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  • richtearichtea Member Posts: 143
    edited June 2010
    Just very unlucky the way it's panned out, a nigh on invisible set has bitten you on the bottom.
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  • lynx3ffectlynx3ffect Member Posts: 452
    edited June 2010
    played perfect imo - theres no value in 3betting the flop, you're rarely getting called by worse and 3 betting folds out all his air and his tptk, 2nd pair, 78 kinda hands which u wanna keep in
     
    as played like everyone says just super ul, altho i think there would be a case for checking behind turn as its a total brick and hes checked when u'd expect most bluffs/semi bluffs to continue here so most likely has total air and has given up  or has you crushed so checking behind you can induce another bet on the river and/or pot control if he has u beat, altho in real time i'd most likely panic at a 2nd club and get some money in like u did :)
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited June 2010

    you say you have played with him before quite abit but you have no notes about what sort of hands he plays int he SB to a LP raise or how he plays flopped draws / 2pr+? makes life so much easier when you note down these types of things.

    anyway id never check back turn, yea most the time he is c/fing so we dont get any more money out of his bluffs but hes never going to bluff river if you check back, also i would be floating flop pretty wide if i think hes capable of making moves on me so id have a pretty weak range here and would be betting turn for protection vs overcards / straight draws and semi-bluffing with my own straight draws.

    yeah ur turn betsize is huuuuuge, like no more than halfpot is needed as most the time villain is going to c/jam or c/f so it makes ur bluffs than you float on flop alot cheaper

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  • CLIOKIDCLIOKID Member Posts: 783
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: My own fault?:
    you say you have played with him before quite abit but you have no notes about what sort of hands he plays int he SB to a LP raise or how he plays flopped draws / 2pr+? makes life so much easier when you note down these types of things. anyway id never check back turn, yea most the time he is c/fing so we dont get any more money out of his bluffs but hes never going to bluff river if you check back, also i would be floating flop pretty wide if i think hes capable of making moves on me so id have a pretty weak range here and would be betting turn for protection vs overcards / straight draws and semi-bluffing with my own straight draws. yeah ur turn betsize is huuuuuge, like no more than halfpot is needed as most the time villain is going to c/jam or c/f so it makes ur bluffs than you float on flop alot cheaper
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    I definitely need to improve my note taking.

    My notes generally vary from "Whale" to "monster fish".

    :-)
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