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When to play and when to fold?
moneeey
Member Posts: 2
As a bit of background, I learned to play poker by watching Late Night Poker back in late 2003. I played my first live game in 2004, reached 9 final tables and won 4 in my first 20 tournaments in a period of 5 months. I then found out about online poker and didn't play live for a couple of months. When I returned to live, the game had changed. It had changed to almost playing any 2 cards and chasing all the way. More recently, I have run my own home games and have also been asked to run a poker game at a local (non-poker) club. The players were all new to poker so I had to teach them to play first. Obviously, I have tried to teach them the way I know how, i.e. fold when you believe you are behind and don't chase if it will cost you a lot. Unfortunately, it seems to have fallen on a few deaf ears; their play is loose and resembles many pub poker games where players have learned by watching today's poker programmes and the internet.
I have just been watching a re-run of a tournament on Sky Poker with Tikay commentating and saying the same things I would about some of the poor hands being played, but the problem is these hands are outdrawing the bigger hands. Both in the casino games and in the club game I am running I am seeing many outdraws by ridiculous starting hands where they've hit nothing on the flop, the turn giving them half a chance then hitting a monster on the river. I also see many calls with bottom pair on the flop only to hit their other card on the river and take the pot.
As much as I still want to believe that there is some skill in poker, the more I watch the more I keep asking myself whether the looser play is the more profitable play. In the past I would have considered loose players to be poor players, but as I have not been able to win a live casino tournament since that initial 5-month spell and the 'poorer' players getting deeper into the tournament, is loose play the way to go? Again, watching the televised game on Sky Poker, and quite frankly it is a perfect example of any online game or pub game, the standard of play is very loose in general with numerous outdraws.
The skill in poker used to be bluffing, folding when you're behind, and extracting as many chips as you can from opponents when you've hit big. Bluffing now is almost a non-starter and the only skill seems to be folding to poor players who don't know how to fold, i.e. don't know when they are behind. But you're never going to win a tournament by folding everything, and if you only wait for monster starting hands the chances of winning tournaments are just as low. So, is the answer... if you can't beat 'em, join 'em? I no longer see the players that were around when I first started playing and I wonder if it is becasue their poker skill cannot beat todays player. What do you reckon?
I have just been watching a re-run of a tournament on Sky Poker with Tikay commentating and saying the same things I would about some of the poor hands being played, but the problem is these hands are outdrawing the bigger hands. Both in the casino games and in the club game I am running I am seeing many outdraws by ridiculous starting hands where they've hit nothing on the flop, the turn giving them half a chance then hitting a monster on the river. I also see many calls with bottom pair on the flop only to hit their other card on the river and take the pot.
As much as I still want to believe that there is some skill in poker, the more I watch the more I keep asking myself whether the looser play is the more profitable play. In the past I would have considered loose players to be poor players, but as I have not been able to win a live casino tournament since that initial 5-month spell and the 'poorer' players getting deeper into the tournament, is loose play the way to go? Again, watching the televised game on Sky Poker, and quite frankly it is a perfect example of any online game or pub game, the standard of play is very loose in general with numerous outdraws.
The skill in poker used to be bluffing, folding when you're behind, and extracting as many chips as you can from opponents when you've hit big. Bluffing now is almost a non-starter and the only skill seems to be folding to poor players who don't know how to fold, i.e. don't know when they are behind. But you're never going to win a tournament by folding everything, and if you only wait for monster starting hands the chances of winning tournaments are just as low. So, is the answer... if you can't beat 'em, join 'em? I no longer see the players that were around when I first started playing and I wonder if it is becasue their poker skill cannot beat todays player. What do you reckon?
Comments
Hi
I think wherever you play you will find loose players calling with air, so I will change my play accordingly, but if you have the hand, calling is exactly what you want them to do because they are not going hit most of the time, I dont know if you are aware, but there are two players on Sky Poker who have won the open 5 times each, I wouldnt have thought that is just down to luck, you will also notice as time goes on that you will begin to see the same players cashing time after time too so I believe that a lot of skill has to be involved as obviously some luck to win those 50 50 draws.
Just things I have noticed on Sky Poker
Enjoy your poker
In response to acebarry, I agree, I want them to call with nothing, but the outdraws on the river seem to be happening more often than the good hand before the river... hence the question "is loose play the way to go?".
I heard Tikay say in a programme about Chris Ferguson that the standard of play today in the UK is not that good at the moment. I think he's saying exactly what I have said in the initial post although I don't think it is limited to the UK. Begs a similar question - Is it likely to improve again or is the loose play the way to go?
So the only thing I can see is more often then not like sky poker team say i'e Tikay that they will miss and you will take them to the cleaners.
Its been really doing my head in for ages and i try to play a good game and allways get my chips in when i know im ahead but go out to these super loose players that know no better. It is sometimes good to go on low stakes tables and try to outplay them in different ways, at least that way your not risking too much and you can practice ways to beat them.