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** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! **

Sky_DaveSky_Dave Member Posts: 3,288
edited June 2010 in The Poker Clinic
Evening all,

Hope you've enjoyed the coverage from our first Big Game on Sky Poker this evening. Tikay and Lisa Marie are in the studio live now and have two seats for Take on Tikay to give away to the best hand analysis from those shown on air tonight. 

WATCH THE COVERAGE HERE UNTIL 11pm (opens in a new window)

Which hands caught your eye? How would you have played a little differently from the high rollers? Put your posts in here and we'll announce a winner on air in an hour!

Good luck,

Sky Dave
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  • iBLUFFiBLUFF Member Posts: 1,244
    edited June 2010
    Oh i just set 1  up aswell didnt no who was going to, but anyway i thought it was a really good idea watchin the big boys play was  pretty special. i think the hand were SPARCE folded his J with the K kicker to jak was pretty strange but i think he should of called or even re raised but the strenth jak was showing maybe sparce put him on a set. Anyway it was really good to watch so i think u should keep it on.
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited June 2010
    Ok I'll kick off.  Can't remember the players but I saw a hand where it was JJ v AK o/s.  The action was all preflop.  AK raised, JJ 3-bet, AK 4-bet, JJ Shoved and AK called.

    The question is, bearing in mind both players were 120BB+, should it ever all go in before the flop with those two hands when play is that deep?  Would you be happy to consistently get it all in pre with those?  Does the stake affect your decision?

    Personally I love playing flops and I'm usually flatting with either hand in the middle of the action as described above, especially if I'm in position.  Both are good but vulnerable hands and I try not to lip with stacks this deep.
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  • iBLUFFiBLUFF Member Posts: 1,244
    edited June 2010
    I agree tommy the money should of never gone in pre flop, even with AK if he keeps raising into u u have to belive he has AA or KK
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  • Sky_DaveSky_Dave Member Posts: 3,288
    edited June 2010
    75 v 55 on a 4c-5d-6d-7d-Js rainbow board. Muse12 vs Sparce, with Sparce being out of position.

    The pot is £440 on the river and Sparce checks the river to Muse12, who bets the river for around £300 or so. Sparce then folds.

    I think this is a good spot for Sparce to put a block bet out on the river rather than checking. Discuss.
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited June 2010
    my thoughts on the 55 vs 75 hand

    Muse was overvaluing his 2 pair on that board and thought he was ahead imo

    That value bet on the end was very dangerous it would have been better to check imo. (even though he would have lost the pot!)

    but sparce was correct to fold because he should only be able to beat a bluff really.

    really enjoyed the big game and the show tonight

    hoggers
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! **:
    75 v 55 on a 4c-5d-6d-7d-Js rainbow board. Muse12 vs Sparce, with Sparce being out of position. The pot is £440 on the river and Sparce checks the river to Muse12, who bets the river for around £300 or so. Sparce then folds. I think this is a good spot for Sparce to put a block bet out on the river rather than checking. Discuss.
    Posted by Sky_Dave
    Blocker bet is a great shout.  The downside to this for me is if Muse12 has any respect for the blocker bet.  The fact he bet on the river suggests to me he had turned his hand into a bluff.  It's such a killer board I'm starting to think that Muse12 had Sparce on the set.  He's somewhat aggressive to say the least and it's just a question whether Muse12 would think that Sparce 'could' fold to a shove.
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited June 2010
    i would have put a blocker bet in, but muse may well have rereaised!
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  • iBLUFFiBLUFF Member Posts: 1,244
    edited June 2010
    I THINK THAT IF SPARCE BETS EVEN 50 MUSE WOULD RE RAISE ANYWAY SO HE DID RIGHT TO CHECK FOLD I THINK
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! **:
    my thoughts on the 55 vs 75 hand Muse was overvaluing his 2 pair on that board and thought he was ahead imo That value bet on the end was very dangerous it would have been better to check imo. (even though he would have lost the pot!) but sparce was correct to fold because he should only be able to beat a bluff really. really enjoyed the big game and the show tonight hoggers
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    I disagree Greg.  Against that specific player their hand is polarised completely.  I call there if I've got that read on that player, but it's not totally fair a I got the read on him after he bluffed the river with 72 and I saw that on the TV.
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  • MereNoviceMereNovice Member Posts: 4,364
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! **:
    my thoughts on the 55 vs 75 hand Muse was overvaluing his 2 pair on that board and thought he was ahead imo That value bet on the end was very dangerous it would have been better to check imo. (even though he would have lost the pot!) but sparce was correct to fold because he should only be able to beat a bluff really. really enjoyed the big game and the show tonight hoggers
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    I don't think that he is "overvaluing" his two pair.
    sparce has checked it to him on the river which I would interpret as not having the straight (although it is possible that he might trap here).
    muse has a (S)LAG image (which I'm sure that he is VERY aware of) and may get paid by a holding as weak as an overpair.
    So, he's really only losing to a set.
    These types of players often extract value on the river that us scaredy-cats would never be brave enough to bet.
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! **:
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! ** : I don't think that he is "overvaluing" his two pair. sparce has checked it to him on the river which I would interpret as not having the straight (although it is possible that he might trap here). muse has a (S)LAG image (which I'm sure that he is VERY aware of) and may get paid by a holding as weak as an overpair. So, he's really only losing to a set. These types of players often extract value on the river that us scaredy-cats would never be brave enough to bet.
    Posted by MereNovice
    true, which is why they play at those levels and we don't

    i see what you and Tommy are saying, i just can't play the hand the way that either of them did.
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  • MereNoviceMereNovice Member Posts: 4,364
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! **:
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! ** : true, which is why they play at those levels and we don't i see what you and Tommy are saying, i just can't play the hand the way that either of them did.
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    Nor me!
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  • jakallyjakally Member Posts: 421
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! **:
    I agree tommy the money should of never gone in pre flop, even with AK if he keeps raising into u u have to belive he has AA or KK
    Posted by iBLUFF

    The problem with not being prepared to get it in with AK / JJ, against an aggro player, is that you will fold away value too much.

    There are a couple of regs who it can be a small mistake to get a full stack in pre with these hands, but against most, it would be burning money to 3 bet with AK / JJ, and fold to a 4-bet.

    Sure sometimes you run into a monster, but sometimes you have AK and get a pair to fold, and sometimes you have JJ and get AQ (or even AK) to fold.

    If you are only prepared to get it in pre with AA & KK, it's very easy to pressure you, and get a lot of folds.
     

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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! **:
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! ** : The problem with not being prepared to get it in with AK / JJ, against an aggro player, is that you will fold away value too much. There are a couple of regs who it can be a small mistake to get a full stack in pre with these hands, but against most, it would be burning money to 3 bet with AK / JJ, and fold to a 4-bet. Sure sometimes you run into a monster, but sometimes you have AK and get a pair to fold, and sometimes you have JJ and get AQ (or even AK) to fold. If you are only prepared to get it in pre with AA & KK, it's very easy to pressure you, and get a lot of folds.  
    Posted by jakally
    I'm not advocating the fold in the majority of cases with either AK or JJ.  I'm suggesting, especially if you have position that you should consider the flat to play the flop.
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  • MereNoviceMereNovice Member Posts: 4,364
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! **:
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! ** : I'm not advocating the fold in the majority of cases with either AK or JJ.  I'm suggesting, especially if you have position that you should consider the flat to play the flop.
    Posted by TommyD
    Firstly, it's great to see a post from jakally on this thread - thanks.

    If you flat call with AK in position, aren't you just losing out on value too?

    If you hit the flop (certainly with the A) you are unlikely to get paid and if you miss the flop (2 in 3 times) you will get bet off your hand by the JJ?
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  • MereNoviceMereNovice Member Posts: 4,364
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! **:
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! ** : true, which is why they play at those levels and we don't i see what you and Tommy are saying, i just can't play the hand the way that either of them did.
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    Having had a while to reflect on this, I agree that the blocking bet (for value) would be ideal here (and would quite likely get paid) although I suspect that I'm just saying this because I can see the cards.

    I feel that another benefit of muse betting the river here is that it "de-polarizes his range". If you only ever bet here with the straight or an outright bluff, you make the decision for your opponent easier if he holds something like an overpair. It also has the same benefit for all subsequent hands.
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    How can you watch this again when you want without having to have sky to record it or without having to be in at a specific time to watch a replay? Are they coming up onto youtube or the homepage at all?!

    You could do some satellites to these games were people win a donkament and get put up with a buyin for the cash game, have to play a minimum of say an hour and all profit is theirs maybe, something like that ala the pstars big game on tv atm. Just something to make the lineup a little less reg intensive and actually give people a reason to play in these games?

    Also add an ante :ADOREIFYOUDIDTHAT!:
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  • lynx3ffectlynx3ffect Member Posts: 452
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: ** The Big Game: Hand Discussion Thread - Win Take on Tikay seats! **:
    How can you watch this again when you want without having to have sky to record it or without having to be in at a specific time to watch a replay? Are they coming up onto youtube or the homepage at all?! You could do some satellites to these games were people win a donkament and get put up with a buyin for the cash game, have to play a minimum of say an hour and all profit is theirs maybe, something like that ala the pstars big game on tv atm. Just something to make the lineup a little less reg intensive and actually give people a reason to play in these games? Also add an ante :ADOREIFYOUDIDTHAT!:
    Posted by beaneh
    epic idea beanster!!! make it happen sky...
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  • johns0122johns0122 Member Posts: 22
    edited June 2010
    I'll second that....................that would make it  a whole different show and give the less rolled players a chance to go toe to toe with the big boys on sky.
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  • Sky_DaveSky_Dave Member Posts: 3,288
    edited June 2010
    Interesting idea beaneh, but I'll ask an honest question. (Disclaimer: this is just my two pences worth!)

    If you were to win a tournament which gave you a buy-in into the Big Game, would you be happy enough using that £1,000 on a cash table with some of the regular players at this level? After all, if you're playing a tournament with, let's say a £10 buy-in, that £1,000 would go a long way towards boosting your bankroll and moving up the limits, if that's what you want to do.

    The other problem you have is that playing with just one buy-in means you're going to playing outside of your comfort zone and unable to pull up and fight back should things go sour. It's always important to be playing at the limit you're best rolled for, and while I totally understand it would be viewed as 'taking a shot', you might need more than one bullet to do it effectively :)

    Right, that's me playing devil's advocate/bankroll management advisor done.




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