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What should I do here? Part 2

Seagull158Seagull158 Member Posts: 1,100
edited June 2010 in The Poker Clinic
This is on the final table of a deepstack. 7 left and 5 to cash. Villain has made several speculative calls chasing draws and has won big pots a couple of times in doing so.
Seagull158 Small blind  600.00 600.00 33670.00
tempusfuge Big blind  1200.00 1800.00 9283.75
  Your hole cards
  • J
  • K
     
Stueyh Fold     
darich Fold     
Villain Call  1200.00 3000.00 54226.25
rainbow_x_ Fold     
JammyBee Fold     
Seagull158 Call  600.00 3600.00 33070.00
tempusfuge Check     
Flop
   
  • K
  • J
  • 3
     
Seagull158 ?????     
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Comments

  • POKERTREVPOKERTREV Member Posts: 9,607
    edited June 2010
    Maybe a decent raise pre-flop instead of a flat call at this late stage?

    But having called and hit top 2 pair, I think a shove is my next move, even against AJ AQ A10 Q10 I am still good here. If he's sooted AQ/Q10 spades then I would be a little surprised he didn't raise preflop. But that being said if he is, he's still got to hit so I am thinking I am still favourite.
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  • POKERTREVPOKERTREV Member Posts: 9,607
    edited June 2010
    Don't tell me he hit a set of Threes, cause I hate it when that happens. 
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited June 2010
    open jamming the flop is probably the worst option except to check/fold, jamming 10x pot with top2 pair shorthanded probably isnt the most profitable thing ever to do.

    i would raise pre also though to about 4k. but as you didnt i would just press the pot button and keep pressing the pot button and not fold at any stage unless a 4card flush/straight comes out
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited June 2010
    I would probably check and let him hang himself. Also I'm never EVER folding this hand on that board just to make it clear.
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  • Seagull158Seagull158 Member Posts: 1,100
    edited June 2010
    OK. I bet the pot, got called and saw a safe turn. What now?
    Seagull158 Small blind  600.00 600.00 33670.00
    tempusfuge Big blind  1200.00 1800.00 9283.75
      Your hole cards
    • J
    • K
    		     
    Stueyh Fold     
    darich Fold     
    Villain Call  1200.00 3000.00 54226.25
    rainbow_x_ Fold     
    JammyBee Fold     
    Seagull158 Call  600.00 3600.00 33070.00
    tempusfuge Check     
    Flop
       
    • K
    • J
    • 3
    		     
    Seagull158 Bet  3600.00 7200.00 29470.00
    tempusfuge Fold     
    Villain Call  3600.00 10800.00 50626.25
    Turn
       
    • 5
    		     
    Seagull158 ??????     
          
       
    		     
          
          
          
          
      
    		   
      
    		   
           
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited June 2010
    I would bet 8k-pot.
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  • darichdarich Member Posts: 969
    edited June 2010
    You played the hand fine seagull, but just got unlucky - sometimes that just happens - no need to over scrutinise
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  • Seagull158Seagull158 Member Posts: 1,100
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2:
    You played the hand fine seagull, but just got unlucky - sometimes that just happens - no need to over scrutinise
    Posted by darich
    I bet 6K on the turn. Is thast too low? Am I giving villain the odds to chase the draw?
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: What should I do here?:
    Maybe a decent raise pre-flop instead of a flat call at this late stage? But having called and hit top 2 pair, I think a shove is my next move, even against AJ AQ A10 Q10 I am still good here. If he's sooted AQ/Q10 spades then I would be a little surprised he didn't raise preflop. But that being said if he is, he's still got to hit so I am thinking I am still favourite.
    Posted by POKERTREV
    you would shove 33,000 into a 3600 pot with top 2 pair? why?
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2:
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2 : I bet 6K on the turn. Is thast too low? Am I giving villain the odds to chase the draw?
    Posted by Seagull158
    i think your bets ok it give him under 3/1 on a 8 outter, if you know he will chase draws you can bet bigger to get more value, what do you do if a scare card hits the river? i should change that to WHEN  lol, 
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    In Response to What should I do here? Part 2:
    This is on the final table of a deepstack. 7 left and 5 to cash. Villain has made several speculative calls chasing draws and has won big pots a couple of times in doing so. Seagull158 Small blind   600.00 600.00 33670.00 tempusfuge Big blind   1200.00 1800.00 9283.75   Your hole cards J K       Stueyh Fold         darich Fold         Villain  Call   1200.00 3000.00 54226.25 rainbow_x_ Fold         JammyBee Fold         Seagull158 Call   600.00 3600.00 33070.00 tempusfuge Check         Flop     K J 3       Seagull158 ?????         
    Posted by Seagull158

    call pre is fine, now check raise or lead 2/3 pot and see what happens. Just dont fold and dont be scared of going all in!
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2:
    In Response to What should I do here? Part 2 : call pre is fine, now check raise or lead 2/3 pot and see what happens. Just dont fold and dont be scared of going all in!
    Posted by beaneh
    i think you have to lead here everytime against this player, i dont like check raise as most of the time he will check behind and take the free card, i also like just calling pre flop as its oop and not that great of a hand, you also get value from his limped broadway hands
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  • mr_mbromr_mbro Member Posts: 1,152
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: What should I do here?:
    OK. I bet the pot, got called and saw a safe turn. What now? Seagull158 Small blind   600.00 600.00 33670.00 tempusfuge Big blind   1200.00 1800.00 9283.75   Your hole cards J K       Stueyh Fold         darich Fold         Villain  Call   1200.00 3000.00 54226.25 rainbow_x_ Fold         JammyBee Fold         Seagull158 Call   600.00 3600.00 33070.00 tempusfuge Check         Flop     K J 3       Seagull158 Bet   3600.00 7200.00 29470.00 tempusfuge Fold         Villain  Call   3600.00 10800.00 50626.25 Turn     5       Seagull158 ??????                                                                                                               
    Posted by Seagull158
    Hi Seagull,

    If you have identified this player as a chaser put in a 19000 or all in bet. I know people will say you could scare him off but if that is so then you would be up to 40000 chips and a bit closer to him/her.
    If you put in 19k you are also telling him your going nowhere, if he has got a set so be it but you do still have outs.
    DONT BE AFRAID OF GOING OUT AT THIS STAGE.

    col
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  • mr_mbromr_mbro Member Posts: 1,152
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2:
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2 : I bet 6K on the turn. Is thast too low? Am I giving villain the odds to chase the draw?
    Posted by Seagull158
    Hi
    Without doubt your 6k bet is too small, given his stack(50k) and him willing to gamble, so your bet smells of weakness, but what would you do if he reraised you at that point?
    bet an amount to give them the headache.

    col
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2:
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2 : Hi Without doubt your 6k bet is too small, given his stack(50k) and him willing to gamble, so your bet smells of weakness, but what would you do if he reraised you at that point? bet an amount to give them the headache. col
    Posted by mr_mbro
    i think it a ok bet you can bet the same amount on a draw so it good balance, if he reraises he will be comitted so we can get all the money in
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  • mr_mbromr_mbro Member Posts: 1,152
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2:
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2 : i think it a ok bet you can bet the same amount on a draw so it good balance, if he reraises he will be comitted so we can get all the money in
    Posted by N1CK
    Hi N1ck,

    What i was getting at was that he DID price him in for the draw(with a stack of 50k), therefore giving him nearly 3 to 1 to call. I believe that it is player specific, but i would be happy at that stage to shut the hand down, by betting strongly.
    On the flip side, if his opponent only had 12k left then i would put the pressure on post flop.

    col

    p.s and i'm normally a tightish player
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  • Seagull158Seagull158 Member Posts: 1,100
    edited June 2010
    Many thanks for the comments everyone. The whole  sad story is below. I am not being results oriented but I think your comments have confirmed that i did OK PF and flop but I bet far too little on the turn and priced the villain in to chase the straight, which, of course, hit on the river and i couldn't get awy (but i should have because itr was obvious).
    Seagull158 Small blind  600.00 600.00 33670.00
    tempusfuge Big blind  1200.00 1800.00 9283.75
      Your hole cards
    • J
    • K
    		     
    Stueyh Fold     
    darich Fold     
    Donk villain Call  1200.00 3000.00 54226.25
    rainbow_x_ Fold     
    JammyBee Fold     
    Seagull158 Call  600.00 3600.00 33070.00
    tempusfuge Check     
    Flop
       
    • K
    • J
    • 3
    		     
    Seagull158 Bet  3600.00 7200.00 29470.00
    tempusfuge Fold     
    Donk villain Call  3600.00 10800.00 50626.25
    Turn
       
    • 5
    		     
    Seagull158 Bet  6000.00 16800.00 23470.00
    Donk villain Call  6000.00 22800.00 44626.25
    River
       
    • 9
    		     
    Seagull158 Bet  10800.00 33600.00 12670.00
    Donk villain All-in  44626.25 78226.25 0.00
    Seagull158 All-in  12670.00 90896.25 0.00
    mithrandir Unmatched bet  21156.25 69740.00 21156.25
    Seagull158 Show
    • J
    • K
    		   
    Donk villain Show
    • Q
    • 10
    		   
    Donk villain Win Straight to the King 69740.00  90896.25
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3 Member Posts: 2,418
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2:
    In Response to Re: What should I do here? Part 2 : Hi N1ck, What i was getting at was that he DID price him in for the draw(with a stack of 50k), therefore giving him nearly 3 to 1 to call. I believe that it is player specific, but i would be happy at that stage to shut the hand down, by betting strongly. On the flip side, if his opponent only had 12k left then i would put the pressure on post flop. col p.s and i'm normally a tightish player
    Posted by mr_mbro
    but then your turn bluffs will cost too much. Turn bet is fine ish imo. Id probs bet a tad more for value but it wouldn't make much difference.
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited June 2010
    your always beat here when he shoves over your river bet on that board if you was alot deeper you can get away from this, the nine of spades was the worst card for you in the deck, you can make exploitable bets against weak players as they dont really take much notice of what your doing but betting 7k  on river then folding to a shove keeps you in.... id just press call button in frustration......im a bit suprised he shoved on the 3rd spade they normally panic, maybe he looked at your flop lead and knew you hit a big hand asyou bet pot it screams your protecting from draws, maybe he wernt a donk after all
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