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Obvious set?

pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
edited July 2010 in The Poker Clinic

My reads on this player are that he is pretty solid and rarely steps out of line. As soon as he flatted my raise on the flop it sent alarm bells ringing and I immediately put him on a set. His bet on the turn confused me a little but I couldn't help but think he was trying to keep me in the pot.

I guess I'd like to know peoples thoughts on whether this was a good fold or should I have fired the turn and just stacked off?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
AgiPakaran Small blind  £0.10 £0.10 £19.11
auditt Big blind  £0.20 £0.30 £27.69
  Your hole cards
  • J
  • J
     
pryce6 Raise  £0.80 £1.10 £38.59
xxx Call  £0.80 £1.90 £19.40
loki1 Fold     
Liberachi7 Fold     
AgiPakaran Fold     
auditt Call  £0.60 £2.50 £27.09
Flop
   
  • 8
  • 7
  • 2
     
auditt Bet  £1.25 £3.75 £25.84
pryce6 Raise  £5.00 £8.75 £33.59
xxx Call  £5.00 £13.75 £14.40
auditt Fold     
Turn
   
  • 3
     
pryce6 Check     
xxx Bet  £3.80 £17.55 £10.60
pryce6 Fold     
xxx Muck     
xxx Win  £13.07  £23.67
xxx Return  £3.80 £0.68 £27.47
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Comments

  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    Why did you raise the flop? if I were to raise the flop it wouldn't be with the intention check folding the turn. I would prefer to flat call the flop.
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  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited June 2010
    I saw the lead out as a blocker bet and wanted to fold out the guy behind me and isolate. Also I love that flop with jacks and would hate to flat only for someone to bink an overcard on the turn.

    What does his flat on the flop mean? I just read it as a huge hand and felt I had to c/f turn.
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Obvious set?:
    My reads on this player are that he is pretty solid and rarely steps out of line. As soon as he flatted my raise on the flop it sent alarm bells ringing and I immediately put him on a set. His bet on the turn confused me a little but I couldn't help but think he was trying to keep me in the pot. I guess I'd like to know peoples thoughts on whether this was a good fold or should I have fired the turn and just stacked off? Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance AgiPakaran Small blind   £0.10 £0.10 £19.11 auditt Big blind   £0.20 £0.30 £27.69   Your hole cards J J       pryce6 Raise   £0.80 £1.10 £38.59 xxx  Call   £0.80 £1.90 £19.40 loki1 Fold         Liberachi7 Fold         AgiPakaran Fold         auditt Call   £0.60 £2.50 £27.09 Flop     8 7 2       auditt Bet   £1.25 £3.75 £25.84 pryce6 Raise   £5.00 £8.75 £33.59 xxx  Call   £5.00 £13.75 £14.40 auditt Fold         Turn     3       pryce6 Check         xxx  Bet   £3.80 £17.55 £10.60 pryce6 Fold         xxx  Muck         xxx  Win   £13.07   £23.67 xxx  Return   £3.80 £0.68 £27.47
    Posted by pryce6
    guy donks into you on the flop i like your raise here it can get you value and stops him getting his cheap card, i would defo follow up on the turn,..........his play  does look like a set but there are other hands he could have, 99, 10s, 9 10, he could view your turn check as weakness he aint got a lot back 3.80 to win 13.75 is a pretty good price , you got a backdoor straight and a jack i would go with the hand,.....edit you could expect him to jam the flop with 99 or 10 10 but as you said he hadnt got out of line so hes probably a tight passive player so the raise reraise probally could scare him think you have a big pair so they take the passive line in calling hoping to get to showdown
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  • BrownnDogBrownnDog Member Posts: 729
    edited June 2010
    So you are bluff-raising the flop then? How does your opponent that cold-called your flop raise usually play draws after a bet and a raise on the flop? In this case how would he play 56 and 910 in that spot? Are these hands even in his pre flop calling range?

    Also given your image what does this opponent perceive to be in your flop raising range? If he correctly puts you on an over pair to the board, would he slow play (have you actually seen him slow play a set before?) or just 4-bet and try and get the money in on the flop believing you wouldn't fold an over pair in that spot? 
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Obvious set?:
    So you are bluff-raising the flop then?
    Posted by BrownnDog

    Think the phrase is 'asking the question' .....
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  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited June 2010
    No I raise the flop because I think I can get value from the lead out. But when I get flatted by the guy behind it just felt like I was getting trapped by a set. If he re-raises my raise it looks huge so he decides to flat and hope the lead out stays in the pot too. When I check he knows I will fold to a bigger bet so he tries to keep me in the pot.

    I know it's weird folding to a smallish bet but I felt I had the read and knew I was beat.

    Does that make sense? Or do I have to get the stacks in regardless?
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Obvious set?:
    So you are bluff-raising the flop then? How does your opponent that cold-called your flop raise usually play draws after a bet and a raise on the flop? In this case how would he play 56 and 910 in that spot? Are these hands even in his pre flop calling range? Also given your image what does this opponent  perceive to be in your flop raising range? If he correctly puts you on an over pair to the board, would he slow play (have you actually seen him slow play a set before?) or just 4-bet and try and get the money in on the flop believing you wouldn't fold an over pair in that spot? 
    Posted by BrownnDog
    if hes that much of a thinking player at nl30 he might also realise that the op would 3bet flop with overcards as its not the worst coordinated board in the world then he could slow play hoping a big card falls on turn?
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Obvious set?:
    No I raise the flop because I think I can get value from the lead out. But when I get flatted by the guy behind it just felt like I was getting trapped by a set. If he re-raises my raise it looks huge so he decides to flat and hope the lead out stays in the pot too. When I check he knows I will fold to a bigger bet so he tries to keep me in the pot. I know it's weird folding to a smallish bet but I felt I had the read and knew I was beat. Does that make sense? Or do I have to get the stacks in regardless?
    Posted by pryce6

    If you can get value from his lead by raising, he must be bet calling worse so you cant then be scared of his bet call. Even if you can correctly put set in his range there will be other hands and sets happen alot less often.

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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Obvious set?:
    So you are bluff-raising the flop then? How does your opponent that cold-called your flop raise usually play draws after a bet and a raise on the flop? In this case how would he play 56 and 910 in that spot? Are these hands even in his pre flop calling range? Also given your image what does this opponent  perceive to be in your flop raising range? If he correctly puts you on an over pair to the board, would he slow play (have you actually seen him slow play a set before?) or just 4-bet and try and get the money in on the flop believing you wouldn't fold an over pair in that spot? 
    Posted by BrownnDog

    Our oppo can only 3 bet the flop when we raise babes ........
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  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Obvious set?:
    So you are bluff-raising the flop then? How does your opponent that cold-called your flop raise usually play draws after a bet and a raise on the flop? In this case how would he play 56 and 910 in that spot? Are these hands even in his pre flop calling range? Also given your image what does this opponent  perceive to be in your flop raising range? If he correctly puts you on an over pair to the board, would he slow play (have you actually seen him slow play a set before?) or just 4-bet and try and get the money in on the flop believing you wouldn't fold an over pair in that spot? 
    Posted by BrownnDog
    I knew he could have 56 or 910 but why would he bet that on the turn? Would he not take the free card?

    He can put me on an overpair but he knows I am good enough to fold it. In regards to slow playing or 4 bet he can do either but I had no notes on him, I just thought he would slow play in that spot to try and get the lead out involved too.
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  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Obvious set?:
    In Response to Re: Obvious set? : If you can get value from his lead by raising, he must be bet calling worse so you cant then be scared of his bet call. Even if you can correctly put set in his range there will be other hands and sets happen alot less often.
    Posted by beaneh
    I wasn't scared of the lead out calling, I raised because I wanted him to call. It was when the guy behind flatted that I got scared.
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  • BrownnDogBrownnDog Member Posts: 729
    edited June 2010
    It's been 7 hours and 15 days since you took your love away...
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Obvious set?:
    In Response to Re: Obvious set? : I wasn't scared of the lead out calling, I raised because I wanted him to call. It was when the guy behind flatted that I got scared.
    Posted by pryce6

    dont listen to me I cant even read the hh properly DOH!
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Obvious set?:
    It's been 7 hours and 15 days since you took your love away...
    Posted by BrownnDog

    twas always there hun
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  • OMahonyOOMahonyO Member Posts: 1,883
    edited June 2010
    pryce, i cant fold there, i dont care what the `its an equitable life henry` boys say. ur at the dizzy heights of nl20 here, they are not. 
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Obvious set?:
    pryce, i cant fold there, i dont care what the `its an equitable life henry` boys say. ur at the dizzy heights of nl20 here, they are not. 
    Posted by OMahonyO
    lol, i dont think they actually said what they would do, its more belittling than advice apart from 1 of browndogs posts
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    call flop, as played call turn.


    we have said don't raise flop if you think he only calls with better, if he doesn't only call with better than don't fold turn. simples.
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Obvious set?:
    call flop, as played call turn. we have said don't raise flop if you think he only calls with better, if he doesn't only call with better than don't fold turn. simples.
    Posted by beaneh
    so if you was player xxx say you had 99 as the hand played would you fold on flop putting him on over pair or could you continue as he could reraise the lead/donkbet with Ak ?
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Obvious set?:
    In Response to Re: Obvious set? : so if you was player xxx say you had 99 as the hand played would you fold on flop putting him on over pair or could you continue as he could reraise the lead/donkbet with Ak ?
    Posted by N1CK

    I would snap fold 99.
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  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited July 2010
    Thats what I thought as he folds hands like that surely his call is huge strength? I know what you are saying though Mahony, I knew I should have called but I was 90 percent sure I was way behind.

    Anyways I played jacks about 20 mins later almost the same flop and ran into a huge hand so just think it wasnt my day.
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