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SPT Swansea - Who's for learning/playing/owning me at* Omaha? (* - delete as appropriate)
Sky_Dave
Member Posts: 3,288
- * Are you new to Omaha?
- * Still think it's nothing more than a state in the USA?
- * Do wraps, redraws and split pots make your eyes water?
Then I might have something just for you...
The SPT Swansea is fast approaching and I'm pleased to say the suits at Sky Poker have given me the green light on what I think will be a heap of fun: An Omaha Workshop.
We're working through the finer details at the moment but I'm hoping we get a table set aside where you can come over and run through the finer points - or indeed the very basic ones! - of Omaha. I plan on making it predominantly about Omaha High, but if there's enough interest I'll cover Omaha Hi-Lo as well. I'll be there for the duration of the day and so I'll be more than happy to chat to you before/after/during the Main Event itself.
However, to make sure this goes swimmingly well I'm going to ask you all to do me a favour to make sure you get the most out of the opportunity. Think of some subjects that confuse you about the game and post them in this thread. Is it hand reading that needs to be practiced or do you want to focus more on which kinds of starting hands you should play in differing positions? I talk the backside of a poker donkey when you get me started, so I'm hoping your comments here give me some firm ideas of what you want to know.
We will of course get to play some as well, just so you get to see how much fun the game really is. I think I've said it before, but Omaha Hi-Lo is genuinely my favourite poker variation and I hope some of you come away from it as fans too
Get firing away with your suggestions and I hope to see as many of you at Swansea as possible!
Cheers,
Sky Dave
Comments
Easy. If you look at your hand and see As-As-Ad-Ad, you probably want to jam the pot as you're playing Hold'em.
This is a great idea i played my first live Omaha tournament in Swansea this year and was not an Omaha fan until i did. live Omaha is slower than online and if you don't understand the game it is by far the best way to learn. things that may help
starting hands
hands you don't play
preflop betting
working out the pot when playing PL live
but the best way to learn is to play lots of sit & go PL games. can you start the workshop early say 12 noon would be good.
DAI
P.s
i came 2nd in that Omaha tournament more luck than skill but i can now play Omaha and do play it live when i can. live is the best way to learn.
COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS
· "Omaha is a gamblers game", "Omaha is about flipping coins" or "Nobody can have a big edge in Omaha"
TRUTH: Omaha is a flop game. The edges come after the flop when our opponents make the biggest (and most profitable for us) mistakes. Weak opponents will often get their money in with non-nut flushes and straights, dominated draws, weak two pairs or even get their whole stack in drawing dead to half the pot (being freerolled). They may also make technical mistakes such as giving free cards or translating hand strengths from hold’em to PLO. Weaker opponents may also play hands in a transparent fashion which make it easier to outplay them in position (such as always limp re-raising with aces).
· “In Omaha we can play looser, as there are more hand combinations possible, and try to win lots of pots”
TRUTH: Omaha isn’t about winning lots of pots it’s about winning our opponents’ whole stacks by playing big pots with strong hands or big dominating draws. Playing hands with a lot of post-flop potential is simply the best way to achieve this objective as when we flop big we get our top sets with extensions and our 16-nut out wraps with extensions paid off by opponents over playing bottom set or two pair or by drawing to dominated non-nut straights or flushes. In hold’em we often try to provoke our opponents in to making mistakes. In Omaha, however, we often just have to allow them to make mistakes at their own accord.
· “You can’t bluff in Omaha”
TRUTH: There are in fact many good opportunities in Omaha to bluff and steal pots from opponents playing their hands ‘face up’. Just as in hold’em we can try and pick up pots according to different variables: the position we are in, the texture of the flop or board, the size of the stacks and the type of opponent(s) we are up against. The advantage of position in Omaha allows us to represent hands on later streets when cards hit that are scare cards for opponents. For example if you called the flop in position with an 11 nut out straight draw and a flush card hits on the turn and your opponent checks, it might be worth taking a stab at the pot here as more often than not our opponent may fold their flopped two pairs and sets and fold their own straight draws. The use of blockers in our own hands can also allow us to pick up extra pots. For example if the flop is K J 10 and we have Q Q in our hand we can just bet right out as it is more difficult for someone else to have made a straight. Probably the most famous example of a blocker bet bluff though is the ‘bare ace trick’. This is when we have the single ace of the suit of a three flush on board. Here we can represent the nut flush and quite literally force the tighter or more sensible opponents of ours to fold anything worse.
CONCEPTS IN OMAHA
· “Fold the nuts? You must be nuts!”
In hold’em claiming that folding the flopped nuts can be a profitable play would probably leave with you with some bemused faces, and rightly so. In Omaha, however, folding the flopped nut straight can be and a lot of the time is a perfectly +EV play to make. It is because of a concept called “being freerolled”. This is when both we and our opponent(s) flop the nut straight, but we don’t have any back door ‘extensions’ to win the entire pot whereas our opponents(s) do. For example if we hold 7c8s2h3d and the flop is 6h 9d Th and our opponent holds 7h8hTdJd we only have a 38% chance to just split the pot; leaving our opponent to scoop 62% of the time with his flush draw, bigger straight draw, backdoor flush draw and backdoor full house draw. Of course the decision whether to fold the nut straight without redraws on the flop is always dependant on stack sizes and the type of opponent(s) that we are up against.
· Position in Omaha
The advantage of position in Omaha is equal to if not even greater than of that in hold’em. This is so because even the most modestly experienced and educated Omaha player knows that giving free cards can be a potentially huge mistake. This being so, in contrast to hold’em, slow playing becomes rare and check raising becomes the exception rather than the rule. As such when we are in position we can have a greater deal of certainty that our opponents are weak when the action is checked to us and thus we can bet out to try and take the pot down. As discussed above position also allows us to widen the range of hands we can represent on later streets when scare cards come off. Another reason why position is important in pot limit Omaha is because it gives us greater freedom to manipulate the size of the pot as a result of the pot limit betting structure. Obviously, in no-limit hold’em we are permitted to bet as much as there is in our stack but in PLO we can only bet up to the size of the pot. As such in early position the pot is obviously smaller thus limiting the amount we can raise to, but in later position after maybe a raise and several callers we have the ability to raise to a much larger amount.
OTHER CONCEPTS
* Draw only to the nuts: There is no bigger mistake in omaha than drawing to a non-nut hand and then paying it off on the river
* Play only hands that have lots of post flop potential such as double suited rundowns that can flop big wraps( big straight draws with up to 20 outs) or big pairs with straightening and suit cards to flop top sets with extensions: hands that have a big chance of having the nuts on the river.
* Don't give free cards under any circumstances: it may cause you to lose a big pot.
* Curiosity called the cat: If you opponent bets into you representing something then he probably has it, don't call with second best hands only to be shown the nuts every single time.
^^^ I don't think we need you anymore now, Dave.
I'd definitely join in with this in Swansea, want to learn more about the game and seeing some of Dave's posts about the game in the Clinic gives me the impression that it will be a very helpful experience.
One thing i'd like to see talked about is examples of hands/betting patterns that would fit certain playing styles. E.g Would raising with hands like QQJTds in mid-position be considered loose? Would folding JJ83 on the BTN after 2 limps be too tight? (Forgive me if they're really bad examples, but you get the jist).
I'll have a look at how hand ranges can vary according to playing style. I hope Tikay doesn't come over asking if folding KQJT double-suited in an un-opened pot is too tight though.
Need something to do if I get knocked out early lol!! Luton spt got me hammered!
Here's one for you tho, love to be able to put my finger on it, ......
When Omaha first came onto site, i tried it for a few games, read a couple of book chapters, & threads by a couple of good posters [Talon i think], enjoyed it & done ok. BUT for some reason my Holdem went thru the roof!! Great results for a brief period, then tailed off again... Fine can happen, luck/variance etc....
......But...........months later, you brought Hilo onto the site.....same pattern, read a bit, tried it, did'nt do as good....... But......BANG!!! Holdem thru the roof again!!!! Why? freshened up meybe, more focused?...Please help with answer, or have i just gotta hang fire tilll next new game appears!!!!!!!!!!!
The Hitman